Question about Brand name diamonds

[dmdshopper]

First I’d like to say I’m a research aholic and all of the information on this forum is fantastic

I've stopped at a few stores to get an idea of different sizes and colors and came across a Hearts on Fire at Shreve & Co.

My first stop was at a Jared and I was worried that I was color sensitive because everything they showed me seemed dull and tinted. I was surprised when they showed me a Solasfera too and it wasn’t quite what I expected either.

Then I stopped at Shreve & Co and their HoF looked amazing, even walking outside with it looked excellent (their signature series looks great too and appear to be intentionally selected 60/60s).

My question is if ordering online, to find something that will match a HoF do I need to select a ‘Superior Hearts and Arrows Cut’ from GoodoldGold or ‘A Cut Above’ from Whiteflash or ‘True Hearts’ from JamesAllen etc… or will I be able to find a diamond of similar performance without a ‘special’ designation?

 

[Gypsy]

Rising Sun, one of our posters has owned Whiteflash ACA's and still prefers her Hearts on Fire stones. So if you fell in love, just a warning-- you might want to look into 'real' Hearts on Fire... perhaps second hand if you can find them for budget reasons. Other's who have fallen in love with Hearts on Fire have bought different diamonds and been very happy. So I can't say what will work for you. I can only give you my best advice, which is:

If I wanted a diamond that beats or matches Hearts on Fire quality my choice would be Infinity Diamonds. High Performance Diamonds carries them. They are a boutique diamond brand that cuts a limited number of absurdly super ideal stones every year. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=diamond-search

My second choice would be Brian Gavin. But he is the inventor of the ACA as well as his own Signature line-- so Rising Sun's experiences might have bearing there.

Ultimately the best advise I can offer is... buy the nicest real hearts and arrows precision cut super ideal diamond you can find from any of these vendors and then take it in and compare it to a Hearts on Fire diamond yourself. Others have done this and been very happy with their choice. It seems to be very person specific.

And yes, you do need the 'special' designation to match Hearts on Fire because it's not just light return you need to match. It's also precision cutting and patterning and you will only get that from a 'special' cut.

 

[dmdshopper]

Rising Sun, one of our posters has owned Whiteflash ACA's and still prefers her Hearts on Fire stones. So if you fell in love, just a warning-- you might want to look into 'real' Hearts on Fire... perhaps second hand if you can find them for budget reasons. Other's who have fallen in love with Hearts on Fire have bought different diamonds and been very happy. So I can't say what will work for you. I can only give you my best advice, which is:

If I wanted a diamond that beats or matches Hearts on Fire quality my choice would be Infinity Diamonds. High Performance Diamonds carries them. They are a boutique diamond brand that cuts a limited number of absurdly super ideal stones every year. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=diamond-search

My second choice would be Brian Gavin. But he is the inventor of the ACA as well as his own Signature line-- so Rising Sun's experiences might have bearing there.

Ultimately the best advise I can offer is... buy the nicest real hearts and arrows precision cut super ideal diamond you can find from any of these vendors and then take it in and compare it to a Hearts on Fire diamond yourself. Others have done this and been very happy with their choice. It seems to be very person specific.

And yes, you do need the 'special' designation to match Hearts on Fire because it's not just light return you need to match. It's also precision cutting and patterning and you will only get that from a 'special' cut.

Thanks Gypsy.

I had a chance to compare the HoF against 3 triple Excellent GIA stones today.

I SI2 https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=2126537694&weight=1
F SI1 https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=5126465933&weight=1.01
H VS2 https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=1129499239&weight=.92

The F SI1 was similarly priced as the HoF (the HoF was an I color, i don't recall the clarity) but the other two were significantly less expensive.

I think I would have been happy with all 4 of the stones minus the expense of the HoF and F SI1 (the H VS2 only scores 2.5 on HCA but in person was stunning).
The 3 non HoF diamonds were 60 60 too and i didn't notice a big difference in color coming out of them compared with the HoF either.

Would you say I'll be able to find similar performing diamonds online based on the aset images?
I'm willing to give online a shot for a better value, its just a big decision for an item I won't be able to see in person.
I'm not partial to 60 60 diamonds at all, thats just what they happen to have.
I'm also not in a hurry to buy soon. I have a few months before I'll be ready to give it to my girlfriend.

 

[Gypsy]

Yes, I think it sounds like you'd be fine. And that you won't necessarily need precision hearts and arrows -- a 'near' heart and arrows might work for you. If you can find one that's priced right (a lot of them are priced the same as precision hearts and arrows which is silly, cause why not go for the hearts and arrows then!) that is.

I would still recommend Infinity and BGD. They have gorgeous stones. But you can expand out to different vendors as well. BGD Blue Line might be a great option for you, all AGS0, and because they are florescent stones with near hearts and arrows faceting they are very affordable. And each stone has been individually inspected by Brian (4th generation diamond cutter) to make sure there are no negative effects from the florescence.

What is your projected budget and what do you want (carat, color, clarity)for the stone ALONE for that budget?

Also what type of setting are you thinking of and what metal, and what budget for that.

ETA: I checked the Blue Line stones and there's nothing for you now. BUT since you have time to shop: Call BGD and ask LESLIE when they expect their next batch of Blue Line stones. Tell her what you want, and what your budget is and ask her if there is anything that might suit you in the bunch.

 

[dmdshopper]

I'm planning on giving it to her in July so if I buy online will probably wait until June to order to stay under any return policies (just to be paranoid). But if a spectacular performing and priced diamond popped up I could probably pull the trigger early.

I've just been recently comparison shopping at B&M to see the size and color differences.

With that said I'll probably spend 8K on the diamond and 2k on a setting (give or take a little of one for the other).
For carat i'd like around 6.5mm or more (I think that starts around 1 carat but if it were smaller than a carat i'd be ok with that). It would be nice to get closer to 7mm but I don't know that I can get there with my price range; color F-I; and clarity eye clean (SI2 if it looked ok).

She would like a halo but I'm still looking for the right one (I don't know if 'i' color would work in a halo either) . I don't like how most halo's cover up the diamond. I'd prefer the diamond to show and not be masked. I think my preference would be platinum but would look at white gold too.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay. BGD Blue Line is a perfect fit for you then.

I think you should shoot for a H-I SI1 stone in 1.0 carat from the Blue Line. You will get about 6.5 mm spread. Your budget CAN get you a 1.2 carat stone with 6.8 mm spread BUT your budget for your setting is too low for good quality (which you need for a ring that you wear everyday) so, I would take 1.5 thousand from the stone budget and put it toward the setting. The .3 spread in a halo will NOT be noticable, so you are fine there.

And for a halo, can I suggest a nice quality halo with pave that is safe and secure is going to cost more than 2K? Closer to 3.5K and BGD does beautiful halos as well.

You can call Leslie and give her your timeline (and tell her you want to make sure you propose within your return policy which is SMART not paranoid) she will be able to give you quality service and make sure you get the best ring for your budget.


Would she want pave on the shank (the band) or would a plain shank halo be okay?

Here's a pick of a plain shank halo. The reason I asked is this would save you money. I believe BGD can do a plain shank halo for 2,600 range.



If something needs to give. I would stick to a 1 carat stone and put more money toward making sure you get a great quality halo so your lady doesn't need to worry about the stones falling out.

 

[dmdshopper]

The safe and secure part of pave has been a concern of mine.
I don't want the setting to be coming apart losing stones and my impression is that seems to be what happens with pave.
So you think there are pave settings that should maintain their quality but they also come with the price tag?
Can you send me some examples (i think the pics you posted look nice by the way)?
Both a plain shank or pave/channel set on the shank would be ok.
I think i'd like the halo to sit pretty low to show off more of the diamond (since i am expecting it to have a lot of fire ).

I wasn't expecting $3k + for the setting but may consider it if there is a significant quality difference.

 

[Gypsy]

My personal experience has been that it is very much worth the money, when you are talking pave, on the best quality you can afford. Pave will lose stones no matter who makes it if you wear it 24/7. It's just a fact. But you CAN minimize it.

Here are things you can do to limit losing stones (other than making sure the quality is the best you can afford):

Buy settings with less pave on them. The less pave there is the less stones... the less stones you potential lose. That's why I recommended the plain shank.

Buy bright cut pave instead of one of the cutdown pave styles.
Bright cut has the thin channel http://artofplatinum.com/vault/halo-ring-round-diamond
Cutdown styles do not: http://artofplatinum.com/vault/round-diamond-pave-halo-engagement-ring

Have you pave checked every 3-6 months, at any good local jeweler and ask them to clean it for you at the same time. If there are loose stones they should let you know so you can have it fixed.

BGD does have nice pave and they stand behind it. But if you want highest quality pave settings, Steven Kirsch at timelessluxury.net or Victor Canera are who we recommend for pave settings. My own halo is by Steven. But they will cost in the 3,000+ range (Steven is more budget friendly usually) even for a plain shank halo. Both cost in the 4-4.5k range for a ring with pave on the halo and the shank.

Good pave is expensive to do, takes a lot of time and skill. And you pay for both of those.

But if you want to work with BGD for pave, no one here will tell you that their quality isn't very good. Because it is.


I had pave that looked good before, but it did NOT endure. As a result I had to get my halo redone because I was losing stones like you wouldn't believe. And I chose Steven when I had to do that and have been thrilled with my halo since then.

 

[dmdshopper]

Thanks for the tips. I'll stay away from the cutdown styles and have to look into Steven Kirsch and Victor Canera settings.
If I use one of their settings do I buy a loose diamond and ship it to them or buy both the loose diamond and setting and have it assembled locally?

I'll also give BGD a call to have them keep an eye out for me. One of the local jewelry stores explained florescent stones as looking like they have a film on them that you try to wipe off but its part of the stone. Is that true of fluorescence? Would there be any noticeable difference from the BGD Blue line than a stone with no fluorescence?

 

[Christina...]

I'll let Gypsy confirm, but my understanding is that approxiamately 5% of all diamonds cut for jewlery will have flourescence, and only 5% of those will have flourescence that will negatively affect the appearance of the diamond. This most often happens in stones with a high color grade DEF, and it is possible that the stone will look milky or hazy in appearance, and typically only if the stone has medium to very strong flourescence. None of the stones in BG Blue line will be negatively affected by flourescence.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Thanks for the tips. I'll stay away from the cutdown styles and have to look into Steven Kirsch and Victor Canera settings.
If I use one of their settings do I buy a loose diamond and ship it to them or buy both the loose diamond and setting and have it assembled locally?

I'll also give BGD a call to have them keep an eye out for me. One of the local jewelry stores explained florescent stones as looking like they have a film on them that you try to wipe off but its part of the stone. Is that true of fluorescence? Would there be any noticeable difference from the BGD Blue line than a stone with no fluorescence?

you will be safe with a BGD Blue.. the only difference is that the Blues aren't true H&A stones.

 

[Gypsy]

Thanks for the tips. I'll stay away from the cutdown styles and have to look into Steven Kirsch and Victor Canera settings.
If I use one of their settings do I buy a loose diamond and ship it to them or buy both the loose diamond and setting and have it assembled locally?

I'll also give BGD a call to have them keep an eye out for me. One of the local jewelry stores explained florescent stones as looking like they have a film on them that you try to wipe off but its part of the stone. Is that true of fluorescence? Would there be any noticeable difference from the BGD Blue line than a stone with no fluorescence?

Steven and Victor will each make the rings from 'scratch' for you. So they can make any style you want. You aren't limited to what they have on their websites. I suggest looking at micropave.com for styles and if you can't find one that is right for you on either of their websites and then send the style to Steven and Victor (via email) for quotes.

micropave.com is Leon Mege's site. He also does very nice pave, but he's damaged two of my friend center stones now without admitting to it (fully cracked one), they had to have their appraisers tell them! So I do NOT recommend Leon in any way shape or form. BUT his site has the most styles and pictures so... I do recommend it for browsing and for ideas.

You would have the center stone sent to whichever vendor you chose, and they would build the setting for it's exact dimensions and then set it for you. BGD is very used to sending the stones to other vendors for setting, and the vendors are used to getting stones in for setting. You'll be fine there.

You will need to have the ring appraised for your insurance once it is finished, so just tell us where you are and we can find a good appraiser for you.

Regarding Florescence. Christina and DF are right. It only affects a small percentage of stones AND BGD screens each stone individually in the Blue Line to make sure it has no negative effects. Here is an article with pictures that shows you what Fluorescence looks like: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence

 

[Gypsy]

Would there be any noticeable difference from the BGD Blue line than a stone with no fluorescence?

OOPS! Missed this question. Yes, there might be if you get a stone with Strong Blue or Very Strong Blue. These stones have the COOLEST blue glow in bright sunlight. That's the only time you can see it, otherwise it looks just like any other well cut diamond. My local jeweler's gemologist has a HUGE engagement stone with strong blue and the thing is hypnotic in bright sunlight. Quite a few of our older members here on PS (including Diamondseeker) have Strong Blue stones as well.

Anything other than strong blue will not give this effect. It is not considered a negative effect-- rather a cool side effect.

Here are some threads with the PS Strong Blue stones and pictures:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/strong-blue-fluorescence-in-bright-sunlight.158817/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/strong-blue-fluorescence-in-bright-sunlight.158817/[/URL] Best thread to show you what you would see in real life. This is also a Blue Line stone with Strong Blue. CLICK on the pics to enlarge.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/who-loves-fluorescence-i-do.62762/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/who-loves-fluorescence-i-do.62762/[/URL] Beacon, who posts farther down this thread lives local to me, and has another gorgeous strong blue. I love this stone in the sun. She does have it in a halo now (she reset). Looks even cooler.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/very-strong-blue-fluorescence.90241/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/very-strong-blue-fluorescence.90241/[/URL] Another great thread with pics
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-your-strong-blue-fluorescence-diamonds.42423/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-your-strong-blue-fluorescence-diamonds.42423/[/URL] A collection of Strong Blue stones.


As you can see, we have many thrilled posters with Strong Blue (many who specifically seek out stones with it). It's not for everyone, but many people (including me) love it.

 

[0-0-0]

I'll also give BGD a call to have them keep an eye out for me. One of the local jewelry stores explained florescent stones as looking like they have a film on them that you try to wipe off but its part of the stone. Is that true of fluorescence? Would there be any noticeable difference from the BGD Blue line than a stone with no fluorescence?

When I was looking for my BGD Blue they didn't have what I was looking for in stock. I asked Brian to keep an eye out for me and he was able to find me 3 candidates after one of his factory visits. Hope you don't need to wait too long!

Stones with fluorescence have to be examined on a case by case basis. I have seen stones that look visibly cloudy/hazy/milky due to fluorescence in all lighting, some that only look visibly cloudy/hazy/milky in some lighting, as well as ones that look crystal clear in all lighting like my BGD Blue.

Keep in mind that stones with blue fluorescence may take on a blue tint in environments with UV light depending on the color of the stone, the strength of the fluorescence, and amount of UV. My I color BGD Blue with strong blue fluorescence takes on a blue tint in sunlight year round in San Diego and further south, but only takes on a blue tint in sunlight in the summer in LA and further north.

 

[dmdshopper]

Thanks for all the great info so far.

A little off topic:
When picking a setting do the diamonds in the setting need to match the color of the main diamond?
If the color of the halo stones are G and the main diamond is i will it be noticeable (or vice versa if the halo stones were i and the main diamond G)?
Likewise, is it important to have a similar cut quality of the setting stones as the main diamond?

 

[Gypsy]

Thanks for all the great info so far.

A little off topic:
When picking a setting do the diamonds in the setting need to match the color of the main diamond?
If the color of the halo stones are G and the main diamond is i will it be noticeable (or vice versa if the halo stones were i and the main diamond G)?
Likewise, is it important to have a similar cut quality of the setting stones as the main diamond?

Melee diamonds in halos perform very different than large diamonds. They do appear a different 'type' of white than the larger centers. I have F/G melee in my halo and an F center and there are times my melee looks much whiter than my center, just because of the way it is reflecting light. That's just a function of the different ways they reflect light.

So yes, you can ask for lower colored melee if you are considering an J stone for example, but you are going to see a difference even if they colors are perfectly matched just because of the way those tiny diamonds perform. We generally say that you are fine within two color grades. So if your melee is F/G you can go up to D or down to I safely. If you have H/I melee then you can go up to F or down to K safely. But you will see a difference, but not as a result of the melee color, just because of the performance.

And that difference between the halo and the center is kinda the point of halos. So they ring your center in white fire.


If you want more 'matching' performance you can get single cut melee-- with is also called eight cut-- as it has less facets than full cut melee and throws off larger facets of light. This is a look people who have diamonds with large facets such as antique cushions or step cuts choose. This presents it's own challenges because top quality single cut melee are scarce and therefore cost more. Plus, all pave loses stones and single cuts can be hard to match. So we recommend for people who go this route to ask the manufacturer to sell them extra stones that they keep and save in the event of a subsequent repair (even if the repair is done by the same vendor that created the piece it is best if the owner keeps the extra melee).

Also melee diamonds, even if they are florescent won't give off a glow that you will notice in direct sunlight. The only time you might notice florescent melee is under a black light.

 

[dmdshopper]

I came across this I SI1 today that seemed to stand out to me and thought i'd ask for an opinion.
With a few months to shop around is a stone in this range (of color clarity) 'a dime a dozen' or is it a 'diamond in the rough'.
Patience may be a virtue i need to work on
I like the spread, symmetry, and it doesn't look to have any light leakage that i can tell.
Cost is ~7k

http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/6340206-PLDQR.PDF

 

[0-0-0]

It's not that difficult to find a well cut 1ct I SI1. The CG ASET suggests that the stone has a painted girdle. It's not necessarily a bad thing as some people prefer it, but here's a recent thread with a video and images comparing a stone with visible painting and one without: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/few-questions-for-a-newbie-about-cut-and-optics.172972/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/few-questions-for-a-newbie-about-cut-and-optics.172972/[/URL]

 

[dmdshopper]

Thanks for the quick reply and thread reference.
I certainly didn't notice the painting. More to learn about