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Prongs integrity

kare_xo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
16
Hi! This is my first post on PS, but I’ve been doing some research since I got engaged on Christmas Day here. The background of this ring is that my fiancé went to a local jeweller that’s been in business for 50 years, a family owned business. He picked this shop because it’s in the town that we just bought our new house at and it had great reviews online. He went in and picked out a semi-mount by Noam Carver and a lab grown diamond. He did so good, cause I love it! But, at the time the ring had to be shipped from Montreal (we’re in Toronto) and he was hoping to get it before Christmas. Literally on Christmas Eve, the jeweller said it finally arrived and that he will set the diamond in a few hours. My fiancé was in a rush, since he was trying to surprise me and we live together, so he just took it and paid and left. He forgot to get any certificate for it. Besides that, though, I’ve noticed that the diamond isn’t set properly. It’s on a tiny tilt and a few of the prongs are not properly bent over or in the seats. When I first wore it, it wasn’t moving at all in the setting, but now I can turn the diamond like a mm and then it stops and I can turn it back. It doesn’t go up and down. So I think it’s pretty secure for now but I definitely want to get it fixed after the lockdown (in Feb). So my question is: is it an easy fix? Does he just have to bend the prongs closer to or does he have to reset the diamond? I actually want it set a little bit lower anyway so I hope the jeweller will do this for free. I also need it resized, it’s a bit too big. Thoughts? See below for pics. TIA! 6A982842-103D-48BE-A04F-DC2DF0F7C3B1.jpeg 86DE93CD-F778-45D8-853F-170C488E604A.jpeg
Prong on the right in above pic is off the table, can slide a piece of paper underneath. All other prongs are on table.
77ACFD87-2D6A-42F7-8036-E48649726214.jpeg
Above pic just showing another angle and the space underneath the diamond.
B6410BC1-27DE-41D6-B080-8E768D088B0B.jpeg
Prongs on both sides have light that pass through, but they seem to be in the seats?
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,838
I have no idea how easy or hard it is to fix. But until that happens, I wouldn't wear it. I would just put it away somewhere safe until I could take it to the jeweler's.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,989
A lose diamond acts like a chainsaw and will eat into the setting quickly making the problem worse which sounds like what happened already.
Do not wear it until it is fixed.
It will depend on how damaged the prongs are how hard it will be to fix it.
 

AnastasiaBeaverhausen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
1,134
I can't speak to how easy it would be to fix. But I'd definitely proceed with caution on giving them another go at it. All depends on their response to your concerns. If they go "Oh no, this is definitely not up to our standards and we'll fix it ASAP," then I'd feel a bit more confident that they'll make things right. But if they suggest in anyway that the work is fine or that you're the problem, then I'd take the ring somewhere else.
 

kare_xo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
16
I can't speak to how easy it would be to fix. But I'd definitely proceed with caution on giving them another go at it. All depends on their response to your concerns. If they go "Oh no, this is definitely not up to our standards and we'll fix it ASAP," then I'd feel a bit more confident that they'll make things right. But if they suggest in anyway that the work is fine or that you're the problem, then I'd take the ring somewhere else.

Yeah. It sounded like they back their stuff up cause they told my fiancé that if there’s ever any problems or I needed cleaning, to go back there. Like a lifetime warranty situation. Unfortunately we are in a lockdown so the shop is closed and we’ve tried to email and text them with no response yet.
 

kare_xo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
16
A lose diamond acts like a chainsaw and will eat into the setting quickly making the problem worse which sounds like what happened already.
Do not wear it until it is fixed.
It will depend on how damaged the prongs are how hard it will be to fix it.

How does this happen? Did he just not push it hard enough to make the prong lay flat on the table? One of them seems properly set, but the other 3 have issues and the diamond seems slightly shifted to one side and tilted. Is it just poor craftsmanship or did he rush it? Does it sometimes happen to even reputable, good jewellers?
 

rainydaze

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,977
Did the setting come from the jeweler as well? I am no expert on this, however it looks to me like the setting (head) is not the right size - too large - for your diamond. This, compounded by a very poor setting job. If that is in fact the correct size for your diamond, the setting job is still very poorly done.

If they look at it and give any reaction other than to be apologetic and reassure you they will fix it properly asap, I would take that to another jeweler whom you have vetted by looking at their setting work. I would also ask them to clarify what they consider a proper fix before allowing them to take it.
 

kare_xo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
16
Did the setting come from the jeweler as well? I am no expert on this, however it looks to me like the setting (head) is not the right size - too large - for your diamond. This, compounded by a very poor setting job. If that is in fact the correct size for your diamond, the setting job is still very poorly done.

If they look at it and give any reaction other than to be apologetic and reassure you they will fix it properly asap, I would take that to another jeweler whom you have vetted by looking at their setting work. I would also ask them to clarify what they consider a proper fix before allowing them to take it.

No, they had to order the semi mount from Noam Carver, for my size. It’s supposed to fit from .5 ct and up from the Noam Carver website, so it should fit properly... maybe they need to clip the prongs to make it look better? It’s a size 6 and I’m actually a size 5, don’t know if that changes anything. Thanks for the tips! Fingers crossed they are super apologetic. Here is a pic of the Noam Carver ring from their site for comparison with my ring:
3DC5AE5E-4617-42F8-8CE4-8A9545B3431C.jpeg
the prongs seem shorter in their stock pic, right?
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,989
How does this happen? Did he just not push it hard enough to make the prong lay flat on the table? One of them seems properly set, but the other 3 have issues and the diamond seems slightly shifted to one side and tilted. Is it just poor craftsmanship or did he rush it? Does it sometimes happen to even reputable, good jewellers?

It sounds from the story there was a rush to get it done.
Anyone can have a bad day and rushing a delicate job is never a good idea. Or he could just suck at it no way to tell from here.
There are a lot of things that can go wrong, not aligning the seats, cutting them wrong , to shallow or to deep so on and so forth.
It looks like to me the seats are in the wrong place for the diamond size but thats arm chair quarterbacking from a couple pictures.
 

kare_xo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
16
It sounds from the story there was a rush to get it done.
Anyone can have a bad day and rushing a delicate job is never a good idea. Or he could just suck at it no way to tell from here.
There are a lot of things that can go wrong, not aligning the seats, cutting them wrong , to shallow or to deep so on and so forth.
It looks like to me the seats are in the wrong place for the diamond size but thats arm chair quarterbacking from a couple pictures.

Ahh, I see. It seems to be such an intricate and delicate process! I agree that I think it was the rush because he had promised to get it done before Christmas but the shipment of the ring was delayed so he even put a rush on it from FedEx.
You mean the seats are too high for the diamond size right? I thought there was a lot of space underneath but couldn’t tell if it’s intentional for more light to shine through or whatever. Thanks for your helpful replies! I’m learning so much :)
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,989
Ahh, I see. It seems to be such an intricate and delicate process! I agree that I think it was the rush because he had promised to get it done before Christmas but the shipment of the ring was delayed so he even put a rush on it from FedEx.
You mean the seats are too high for the diamond size right? I thought there was a lot of space underneath but couldn’t tell if it’s intentional for more light to shine through or whatever. Thanks for your helpful replies! I’m learning so much :)

The stock picture shows the diamond snugged right into the setting.
It isn't helping that the setting used looks like it is borderline to big.
Stock settings are kind of one size fits none which could be part of the issue.
That said it looks like it could be dropped lower and fit the setting better.
It would take looking at it in person to tell for sure so take my coments as guesses not facts.
 

kare_xo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
16
The stock picture shows the diamond snugged right into the setting.
It isn't helping that the setting used looks like it is borderline to big.
Stock settings are kind of one size fits none which could be part of the issue.
That said it looks like it could be dropped lower and fit the setting better.
It would take looking at it in person to tell for sure so take my coments as guesses not facts.

What exactly is a stock setting? Like a mass produced setting? How would I know if mine is a stock setting or not?

For sure, I know it needs to be looked at in person by a pro. But your comments have been helpful in understanding what might have happened and why! Thank you!
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,989
What exactly is a stock setting? Like a mass produced setting? How would I know if mine is a stock setting or not?

For sure, I know it needs to be looked at in person by a pro. But your comments have been helpful in understanding what might have happened and why! Thank you!

A stock setting as the name implies is kept in stock often in one or more finger sizes and usually multiple diamond ranges.
The can be mass produces or limited production like some designer pieces.
The alternative is custom or semi-custom.
semi-custom = many designer pieces where the design is scaled to your finger and diamond size then produced following an existing pattern/design.
custom = the design of the ring was done specifically for you in your size and your diamond size.

There are other categories which are production methods within those ranges such as cast or hand forged or Die struck.
Hand forged is almost always semi-custom or custom.
Cast is used for stock, semi-custom and custom.
Die struck is used in mass production stock pieces but semi-custom can be assembled from die struck parts.
 

kare_xo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
16
A stock setting as the name implies is kept in stock often in one or more finger sizes and usually multiple diamond ranges.
The can be mass produces or limited production like some designer pieces.
The alternative is custom or semi-custom.
semi-custom = many designer pieces where the design is scaled to your finger and diamond size then produced following an existing pattern/design.
custom = the design of the ring was done specifically for you in your size and your diamond size.

There are other categories which are production methods within those ranges such as cast or hand forged or Die struck.
Hand forged is almost always semi-custom or custom.
Cast is used for stock, semi-custom and custom.
Die struck is used in mass production stock pieces but semi-custom can be assembled from die struck parts.

Ahhh ok. I think it’s actually semi-custom then. My fiancé picked the diamond then picked the setting and they had to order it based on my size from a jeweller in Montreal. He was very proud that it was custom and not just picked off the shelf :)
 

karendiben

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
48
Ahhh ok. I think it’s actually semi-custom then. My fiancé picked the diamond then picked the setting and they had to order it based on my size from a jeweller in Montreal. He was very proud that it was custom and not just picked off the shelf :)

Based on your ring size, or based on your stone size?
 

kare_xo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
16
Based on your ring size, or based on your stone size?

Both I assume? How could they order it without the size of the stone and my ring size lol
ETA: Also the Noam Carver site says “This engagement ring can accommodate a variety of center diamond sizes, starting at 0.50 carats, available by special order”
 
Last edited:

rainydaze

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,977
No, they had to order the semi mount from Noam Carver, for my size. It’s supposed to fit from .5 ct and up from the Noam Carver website, so it should fit properly... maybe they need to clip the prongs to make it look better? It’s a size 6 and I’m actually a size 5, don’t know if that changes anything. Thanks for the tips! Fingers crossed they are super apologetic. Here is a pic of the Noam Carver ring from their site for comparison with my ring:
3DC5AE5E-4617-42F8-8CE4-8A9545B3431C.jpeg
the prongs seem shorter in their stock pic, right?

Ok so it is meant to be airy-er around the stone, however the jeweler still did not execute it securely or in a way that maintains the aesthetic that setting is meant to achieve.

Sounds like you are on your way to a resolution! I hope the new jeweler works out, and if not, there's another one that can make this right for you!
 

kare_xo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
16
So after trying to email and text the shop with no luck, I tried to FB message them. I told them the issues with the prongs making the diamond loose and the resizing and certificate. I sent the same pics to them too. The owner replied that they can take care of it and to drop by during the curbside hours to get it resized and it will be ready the next day.

How should I phrase the issues when I go in? Should I say I noticed the prongs aren’t secure and that the diamond is now turn-able? Or is that too direct and rude? I also want it lowered, but am afraid that if they actually just have shitty craftsmanship then I’ll be stuck with a lowered diamond that still isn’t set properly. Should I just ask for it to be lowered a bit and not have the culet completely touch the base? Or will it be an easy fix for another more reputable jeweller even if they set it low but the prongs are not set proper? Hopefully this doesn’t happen but I’m just curious and like to plan in advance.
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
9,929
Both I assume? How could they order it without the size of the stone and my ring size lol
ETA: Also the Noam Carver site says “This engagement ring can accommodate a variety of center diamond sizes, starting at 0.50 carats, available by special order”

Size 6 is the normal stock size... so if your fiance didn't know your ring size, then it's safe to say he bought their non-modified stock setting. I'm not sure if the setting was ordered to fit your stone, but it looks like they just have "ranges" of sizes (like 0.5-0.75 or 1.0-1.5). The head of your setting looks like it is too large for the size of your diamond.
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,838
So after trying to email and text the shop with no luck, I tried to FB message them. I told them the issues with the prongs making the diamond loose and the resizing and certificate. I sent the same pics to them too. The owner replied that they can take care of it and to drop by during the curbside hours to get it resized and it will be ready the next day.

How should I phrase the issues when I go in? Should I say I noticed the prongs aren’t secure and that the diamond is now turn-able? Or is that too direct and rude? I also want it lowered, but am afraid that if they actually just have shitty craftsmanship then I’ll be stuck with a lowered diamond that still isn’t set properly. Should I just ask for it to be lowered a bit and not have the culet completely touch the base? Or will it be an easy fix for another more reputable jeweller even if they set it low but the prongs are not set proper? Hopefully this doesn’t happen but I’m just curious and like to plan in advance.

I would tell them everything you want. No way you will get it otherwise. Tell them the stone moves and it is not secure. Those are facts. They may come back and say you didn’t tell them if they don’t fix it properly. Give them a chance to remedy it first if they are professional and willing. And another jeweler may not want to work on a piece they didn’t sell. If you give them a chance and they don’t meet your needs and fix the problems move on.
 

kare_xo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
16
Size 6 is the normal stock size... so if your fiance didn't know your ring size, then it's safe to say he bought their non-modified stock setting. I'm not sure if the setting was ordered to fit your stone, but it looks like they just have "ranges" of sizes (like 0.5-0.75 or 1.0-1.5). The head of your setting looks like it is too large for the size of your diamond.

It could be...all I know is he took one of my rings, fit it to his pinky and told them the ring should fit his pinky, so he guessed size 6. So what can be done if the head is too large? It doesn’t look like one where the head is separate from the shank. Can they not just lower the stone and cut the prongs? Here’s a pic of it from the bottom if it helps at all: image.jpg
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
9,929
It could be...all I know is he took one of my rings, fit it to his pinky and told them the ring should fit his pinky, so he guessed size 6. So what can be done if the head is too large? It doesn’t look like one where the head is separate from the shank. Can they not just lower the stone and cut the prongs? Here’s a pic of it from the bottom if it helps at all: image.jpg

Oh goodness... that's not the way get a proper ring size, but that is an easy fix. The top of the prongs should be lower than the very top of the diamond's crown. They should be filed down so that they fall beneath the crown and lie firmly against the slope (crown angle) of the diamond - just like shown in the stock photo you posted. I'm not sure how they'd lower the stone, as it doesn't appear the head is the correct size for your diamond. That said, that's kind of the problem with stock settings having a range of sizes to fit -- most won't fit properly, unless the diamond happens to fall in a very particular SIZE range (notice I didn't say carat, because diameter/size varies with carat weight - not all round diamonds of the same weight are the same diameter). Since it's not custom made to fit your diamond, there really isn't a lot you can do about that. However, the prongs can be shaped better and your diamond set more securely (assuming they didn't botch it and cut too far into the grooves when it was first set). I'd be skeptical of this jeweler, as it looks as if he/she didn't (or couldn't) execute a simple setting of your stone well at all. Maybe give him one more chance, but if it's not perfect this time, I'd be done and searching for a better bench. Sorry you're having to deal with this. :(
 
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msop04

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
9,929
The stock picture shows the diamond snugged right into the setting.
It isn't helping that the setting used looks like it is borderline to big.
Stock settings are kind of one size fits none which could be part of the issue.
That said it looks like it could be dropped lower and fit the setting better.
It would take looking at it in person to tell for sure so take my coments as guesses not facts.

This.
 

kare_xo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
16
Oh goodness... that's not the way get a proper ring size, but that is an easy fix. The top of the prongs should be lower than the very top of the diamond's crown. They should be filed down so that they fall beneath the crown and lie firmly against the slope (crown angle) of the diamond - just like shown in the stock photo you posted. I'm not sure how they'd lower the stone, as it doesn't appear the head is the correct size for your diamond. That said, that's kind of the problem with stock settings having a range of sizes to fit -- most won't fit properly, unless the diamond happens to fall in a very particular SIZE range (notice I didn't say carat, because diameter/size varies with carat weight - not all round diamonds of the same weight are the same diameter). Since it's not custom made to fit your diamond, there really isn't a lot you can do about that. However, the prongs can be shaped better and your diamond set more securely (assuming they didn't botch it and cut too far into the grooves when it was first set). I'd be skeptical of this jeweler, as it looks as if he/she didn't (or couldn't) execute a simple setting of your stone well at all. Maybe give him one more chance, but if it's not perfect this time, I'd be done and searching for a better bench. Sorry you're having to deal with this. :(

Haha I don’t know why FI just didn’t take one of my rings with him. But he tried! Yeah, I hope it was because of the rush and not his workmanship. I’ll give him a chance to fix it and if not, Kilani sounds fantastic lol. I love my ring, it’s just annoying with how it’s set and I feel like I shouldn’t be feeling like it’s not perfect because it’s so pretty!
 

msop04

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
9,929
Haha I don’t know why FI just didn’t take one of my rings with him. But he tried! Yeah, I hope it was because of the rush and not his workmanship. I’ll give him a chance to fix it and if not, Kilani sounds fantastic lol. I love my ring, it’s just annoying with how it’s set and I feel like I shouldn’t be feeling like it’s not perfect because it’s so pretty!

LOL That's just a man for you! ;-) Honestly, it's not worth the worry and time to deal with this vendor. I'd just take it straight to Kilani... they did a great job with another poster's ring. Let Kilani fix your beautiful ring and start enjoying it sooner than later!
 

AnastasiaBeaverhausen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
1,134
I would share all my concerns and requests with your vendor and drop off the ring. BUT, I'd ask that they call me back with a realistic idea of what they can/are willing to do to fix it, before any more work is done. If their response isn't satisfactory, then I'd take the ring back and reach out to another vendor.
 

kare_xo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2021
Messages
16
Update: I took pictures of the problems and wrote down what needed to be repaired and brought it with me to the jeweller. He was totally happy to resize it and lower the stone. I didn’t end up telling him all the things I didn’t like because he was going to lower it anyway. But I still gave him the paper with pictures. I told him there were issues with the prongs and the stone was loose. Got it back the next day and voila! When I picked it up, it was his son who gave it back and he looked at the pictures and although he didn’t say it, his facial expressions said “oh wow, definitely problems there.” Anyways, I’ll chalk it up to a rush job and Christmas timeline. Looks soooo much better and it’s definitely secure now. SO happy Thanks everyone for your advice!! DCA17351-FC50-4DD6-BF73-1A5C88CAC7D2.jpeg
 

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Venusara

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
Messages
28
Yay!! So happy for you that it worked out. It looks better set lower and it looks secure!! Enjoy your beautiful ring☺☺
 
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