Princess Cut - Finding the best Cut? (& More)

[pb]

I''m interested in purchasing a princess cut diamond of about 1.0 to 1.05 carats, DEF, FL-VVS2, so I''m spending a good bit of money. My question is this: Are there certain combinations of table depth %, table size %, crown %, crown angle, and pavilion angles (I see that there are really 2 angles each) that give better Brilliance, Fire and Scintillation?

I see that AGS has a new grading scale for cut. Are there things that the consumer can do to insure the best cut?

Also, do you know of a reputable place to buy loose diamonds online where I can have access to the information I need? Also, perhaps you know of another way to select a princess cut diamond that gives better Brilliance, Fire and Scintillation without using physical measurements like I mentioned in the first paragraph?

On another topic, when you see the little lines that fan out at the bottom of a proportion diagram, what should they look like? Should they all start at the girdle and fan out, or should they be more parallel. I''m attaching an image file for a diamond that I''m considering where you can see the lines I''m talking about. They''re more parallel in this image. The image has photos, diagrams, and other info.

I also have a question about the stone in the image I''ve attached. What causes the four dark spots in the middle. I haven''t seen the actual stone, but I''m wondering what is causing these? Would I see them in the actual stone and are they cause for concern?

Any opinion whatsoever on any part my post is much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[pb]

bumping up

 

[kcoursolle]

I don''t know a ton about princesses, so I can''t help with actual proportions. Looking at AGS 0 princesses is a great place to start. Many think that they have nice cuts. The four dark spots are not inclusions, they are part of the cut and fairly common.

You might want to consider going down in color and clarity. A princess that is in the G/SI1 range that is eye clean can look identical to a flawless higher color stone and save you a ton of money.

 

[Pupper]

hello pb!

good old gold's website could prolly answer your Qs better than i could! and THIS might help too; as you can see, princesses are tricky to pick out! that doesn't mean that they're not my favorite, just a bit trickier to find a winner!

best of luck to you!

 

[pb]

ccoursolle and Pupper, thanks for the great info. It''s all very helpful.

 

[oldminer]

The AGA Cut Class charts will help you find regular cut princess cuts of superior potential. The new AGS 0 princess cut grade also will do the same thing for finding princess cuts made to this new stanadrd of cutting which also have the highest potential. Neither system is gooing to assure you of the very best. The cure is to look at several stones within these upper cut grades, AGA 1A-1B and AGS 0 before making up your own mind about which one looks the most beautiful and which one gives you the best value for your money. It is not a simple issue which allows for a simple answer.

However, the answer is there if you search for it. One combines a well cut diamond with great potential for beauty with visual inspection to get to the proper result. You can screen stones by parameters for as long as you want, but it is an exercise which won''t get to the end game. For that, you''ll need to do some looking. From work I have done with ImaGem I know there are several levels of light performance within the upper cut range parameters of even the well respected AGS 0 princess cut. One might insist that the categorization we have created in the ImaGem grading is too narrow at the top. Maybe so. Others might appreciate the level of discrimination which is offered. No one needs to buy a diamond they don''t like or where they personally cannot recognize the added value. Categories of quality are purely human constructs to describe things, not absolute systems ordained by nature.

Just like you can''t see the visible difference between VS1 and IF, you can''t see the difference between Excellent+ and Very Good+ with ImaGem. One can measure the difference digitally, but, for the most part, it is invisible. We chose a system that follows the very fine gradations of the diamond business at the very top where D,E or F and IF, VVS1, VVS2, or VS1 are pretty much visibly the same for most folks. It was an arbitrary decison and we had the data to support it. Other systems may be less able to offer hard data to back up their categorizations. It may be part of the reason wider categories were chosen. I have yet to see an AGS 0 princess cut which failed to look beautiful.

 

[Pupper]

thank you Dave

v well said! the AGA charts have been invaluable to me in my princess cut searches

 

[pb]

Thanks oldminer and Pupper! I wondered what the AGA Cut Class Charts were exactly, so I did a search and found this interesting article by some fellow named David Atlas, who seems to know his stuff.

Got a question for anyone: When I look at diamonds with AGS certification, what is the date that I can safely assume they have started using the new stardards that were introduced within the last couple years for princess cuts? The reason I ask this is that I think there are probably diamonds on the market right now using both sets of rules depending on when they were appraised.

Here''s questions directed at David Atlas: What do you think of the diamond pictured in the initial post in this thread? Thumbs up or down? Why do the lines in the pavilion differ from the ones in this thread? (In other words, why don''t they emanate from the girdle?) Also, if you were a customer and had it in your hands, would you keep it or return it, given the option? Thanks. Anyone else is more than welcome to chime in, too.

 

[oldminer]

All AGS 0 princess cuts use their new system. THey did not cut grade anythng but rounds with the older system.

A clarity may not duplicate the faceting of the diamond perfectly. It is a representation and may vary a bit or a whole lot from the way the diamond is cut. You can''t buy a diamond safely from a paper although many do. They accept a risk in that the diamond may not be "the one". Of course, you can return it, but it becomes costly and difficult,too.

If you like the way the document reads, send for the stone and see if it works for you. Its the right way to proceed.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/12/2007 4:32:19 PM
Author: oldminer
The AGA Cut Class charts will help you find regular cut princess cuts of superior potential. The new AGS 0 princess cut grade also will do the same thing for finding princess cuts made to this new stanadrd of cutting which also have the highest potential. Neither system is gooing to assure you of the very best. The cure is to look at several stones within these upper cut grades, AGA 1A-1B and AGS 0 before making up your own mind about which one looks the most beautiful and which one gives you the best value for your money. It is not a simple issue which allows for a simple answer.

However, the answer is there if you search for it. One combines a well cut diamond with great potential for beauty with visual inspection to get to the proper result. You can screen stones by parameters for as long as you want, but it is an exercise which won''t get to the end game. For that, you''ll need to do some looking. From work I have done with ImaGem I know there are several levels of light performance within the upper cut range parameters of even the well respected AGS 0 princess cut. One might insist that the categorization we have created in the ImaGem grading is too narrow at the top. Maybe so. Others might appreciate the level of discrimination which is offered. No one needs to buy a diamond they don''t like or where they personally cannot recognize the added value. Categories of quality are purely human constructs to describe things, not absolute systems ordained by nature.

Just like you can''t see the visible difference between VS1 and IF, you can''t see the difference between Excellent+ and Very Good+ with ImaGem. One can measure the difference digitally, but, for the most part, it is invisible. We chose a system that follows the very fine gradations of the diamond business at the very top where D,E or F and IF, VVS1, VVS2, or VS1 are pretty much visibly the same for most folks. It was an arbitrary decison and we had the data to support it. Other systems may be less able to offer hard data to back up their categorizations. It may be part of the reason wider categories were chosen. I have yet to see an AGS 0 princess cut which failed to look beautiful.

Dave,

I like most of what you say, but I worry about "The best".

I think you are saying it also, that there is NO BEST for every one, there will always be what each person likes the most. That is why all oof the grading systems allow a range, while attempting to quantify the quality of the workmanship without establishing any one "BEST" for each cut of diamond.

Recently I have notices a spate of people trying to pound out their personal preferences as being "the BEST" and it concerns me as many of the stones that are magnificent could be painted as not worthy, even when they have earned the top AGS grade. I think that this would be unfortunate. (This has been much more a problem with rounds than princess cits.)

Wink