Princess Cut Diamond Input/Feedback Needed!

[MrRevhead]

Hi Everyone!

I am in the process of purchasing a Princess Cut diamond from a diamond wholesaler.

The diamond is not in stock, but with their supplier overseas. Based on the suggestion of the wholesaler, 2 diamonds have been selected to get photos etc prior to ordering them in.

With the wholesaler, since the diamond is overseas, a fee will need to be paid ($250) for consignment and import duties if I want to view the diamond, therefore it is crucial that I make a more 'educated' choice beforehand prior to paying the fee to see the diamond prior to purchasing.

Using your experiences, can I please receive feedback on the following 2 diamonds.

My fiance wants a princess cut >5mm x 5mm for our budget. As a result, the following 2 stones have made the short list:

Diamond No 1:

5.27 x 5.08 x 3.42 mm
0.74ct
E
VS2

Depth: 67.3%
Table: 75%
Slightly Thick to Thick

Excellent Polish
VG Symmetry

Cloud Feather

Diamond No 2:

5.23 x 5.02 x 3.48 mm
0.7ct
E
VS2

Depth: 69.2%
Table: 72%
Medium to Slightly Thick

VG Polish
VG Symmetry

Feather/Cloud

Based on some of my research, Diamond 2 looks like it might be a better diamond.

Using the tool on the Gemappraisers website, Diamond No 1 was rated a 1B, No 2 a 1A.

Based on your experiences, would Diamond No 1 more than likely be significantly worse than No 2 due to the larger table to depth difference?

Any feedback appreciated!

 

[Amour_Et_Diamants]

Based on those specs, neither diamond looks great. Diamond #2 looks better but not amazing. I would keep looking.

 

[Gypsy]

Neither diamond "looks good". Let alone "looks great". Why because you've posted a bunch of meaningless information. Did not post to say WHICH lab graded the diamond. AND most importantly because numbers tell you nothing about a princess. You need pictures and an ASET.

Or you can get an AGS0 princess. But from what you have posted? Those diamonds could be gorgeous, or complete dogs. GIA does not grade their princesses for performance. Only AGS does. And if those diamonds are graded by any lab other than GIA or AGS you shouldn't be considering them at all.

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king. With fancies though (anything other than a round brilliant), that is a little complicated. But no other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut.

There really is no other way to determine if you have a good princess is to see images of the stones, and then you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.

That's what an ASET image does. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance Please read.
And ASET shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return That is why you won't see us recommending vendors like Blue Nile, as they do not provide images or ASET images for their diamonds. James Allen and Good Old Gold do this. So do Brian Gavin and Whiteflash and High Performance Diamonds.

Also, any wholesaler who is selling to you is lying. They are a retailer. And frankly most of these vendors tend to be extremely good at parting the ignorant from their funds for sub-par goods.


Also you are wasting money on E color. You should be shooting for G. VS is fine, though an eyeclean SI1 would work as well.

 

[Gypsy]

Here are some 5mm princesses that truly "LOOK GREAT".

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-3062358.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-3036247.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-3022036.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-3036250.htm

All are AGS0 diamonds. They have great ASETs. And they are eyeclean.

They are right around 3,000-3,500 which is about the price range that an 80 point eyeclean white diamond with excellent cut should cost.

Here's another one. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.82-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-sku-279364 Also AGS0. Also eyeclean. And James Allen will be able to get you an ASET to confirm performance.

 

[MrRevhead]

Sorry, I should of mentioned it before, they are GIA gradings.

Thanks for the additional links, they are a bit over what I want to spend, especially when I factor in shipping from overseas, tax and customs duties.

I understand this doesn't have an ASET image, but how to the specifications look?

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pag...&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=2151886322

 

[Gypsy]

Sorry, I should of mentioned it before, they are GIA gradings.

Then you need pictures and an ASET.

The numbers are meaningless. That lab report tells you NOTHING about how the diamond will perform.


Here is what I mean. Compare these two:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.00-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-295886
G color
VS2
Depth 76.3
Table 69
Ratio: 1.01
Excellent polish
Good Symmetry
Girdle Medium

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.00-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-283672
G color
VS2 clarity
Depth 76.2
Table 69.9
Ratio: 1.02
Very good polish
Very good symmetry
Girdle Thin to Slightly thick

Numbers are VERY close right? And the first one has a better girdle. And while the symmetry on the first one is only good, that's not a disqualifier with princeses.

Now look at the pictures. The first one is a VERY dark stone, and frankly a dog as far as princesses go. Second one is an AGS0 with ideal light return and is very bright, with just enough patterning to provide contrast.

In summary. YOU NEED AN ASET AND IMAGES.

 

[MrRevhead]

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

I have pictures being emailed to me tomorrow, I will post them up.

I will ask the wholesaler to request ASET/idealscope images if their supplier has them.

Will keep you posted/update thread as necessary.

 

[Gypsy]

As for your budget. I don't know what to tell you there.

You want a bright stone-- you need to concentrate on cut. You can go down to H color and still get a very white stone.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.76-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-260631 This one has potential. JA can get you an ASET.

 

[Gypsy]

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

I have pictures being emailed to me tomorrow, I will post them up.

I will ask the wholesaler to request ASET/idealscope images if their supplier has them.

Will keep you posted/update thread as necessary.

Good!
I'll keep checking back.
Good luck in your search.

 

[MrRevhead]

Below is a pic of Diamond No 1:

 

[Roxy]

Below is a pic of Diamond No 1:

Can the vendor send you pics w/ the stones side by side to help you compare? I really prefer videos to photos, so I'd ask the vendor to also shoot a short, simple video showing the stones "in action" for you.

I know you're also asking for ASETs, so please post those when you get them so the folks here can help you further. How exciting!

 

[MrRevhead]

Thanks Roxy.

I would prefer a video as well. Unfortunately, I am unable to obtain an ASET from that particular supplier.

I have found another diamond that is located overseas that I can bring in on consignment for $200, and the jeweller/importer who is directly importing it will provide the following upon arrival:

• Microscopic Photo
  Ideal-Scope Image (Round Brilliant Stones Only)
  AGS ASET Image (Fancy Cut Stones Only)
  Two videos in different lighting conditions
  Full proportion and extra cut grading information

So, the testing seems a bit more in-depth than the other supplier.

Before anyone suggests for me to directly import a diamond from James Allen etc In Australia, we have to pay a GST and Customs Fee, which is about 13-15% on top of another 10% in converting the US dollar to AU. If I had to return the diamond due to not being satisfied,I would be out of pocket a significant amount (eg on a US $2500 diamond, it will cost me about $3100 landed). If I was to return the diamond, even though JA will refund, I will still be out of pocket 13-15% (tax/duty charges).

It is more logical financially to get a supplier who has prices on par with the likes of James Allan that offers the above service and return policy prior to paying the full amount for the diamond.

Now that has been cleared up, I am considering the following two diamonds:


GIA
Weight: 0.77ct
Colour: F
Clarity: VS2
Fluorescence: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Measurements: 5.00x4.99x3.74
Length:Width Ratio: 1.00 : 1
Table: 65%
Depth: 74.9%
Girdle: Medium to Thick
Clarity Characteristics: Crystal, Cloud

GIA
Weight: 0.71ct
Colour: F
Clarity: VS1
Fluorescence: None
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Measurements: 5.03x5.00x3.51
Length:Width Ratio: 1.01 : 1
Table: 68%
Depth: 70.2%
Girdle: Medium to Thick
Clarity Characteristics: Feather, Pinpoint

I have not received pics as yet, but proportion and statistically, which one seems to have the more ideal parameters? Both are within $100 of each other.

Using the AGA/Dave Atlas's Princess Cut grading system, both are 1A/1B based on the input (I had to estimate crown, so used a moderate 8% - although I assume the 10% table/depth difference in the first diamond would likely result in a higher crown % ?)

Thanks in advance.

 

[Roxy]

Oh, now I understand, got it!

Well, given your limitations regarding who you can work w/ in obtaining the diamond, if it were me, I'd ask the importer to find princess cuts that are certified AGS0 ideal (as Gypsy mentioned above) because that takes a lot of the additional legwork (& uncertainty) out of it. I'd have them bring in 2-3 to video side by side, just so I could see which one is most appealing to my eyes, and I'd pick one with no worries.

For color and clarity, the F/VS2 combo is great if you like the "cool" white look or you can go with a G-H/VS2 combo for a richer (some call it "warmer") white and usually a larger spread. Either way, an ideal cut princess is going to be beautiful.

I hope this helps, and I hope your importer can work with you to find some AGS0 stones for you to get a look at, otherwise most folks here will continue to ask for the ASETs before they can really help you commit to anything.

 

[MrRevhead]

Thanks for the feedback Roxy.

I plan to 'call in' one of the two diamonds above. I know it is very hard to judge a diamond by it's numbers, but 'statistically' which one of the above two has better proportions?

I am leaning towards the first one with a 65% table 74.9% depth in the hope the crown % and angle will be of decent height/value.

At least with this dealer, idealscope and ASET images are provided once it is 'called in'.

So, would people agree that based on the proportions given above, the 65/74.9 is likely to be more ideal than the 68/70?

Any feedback appreciated!

 

[Gypsy]

Thanks for the feedback Roxy.

I plan to 'call in' one of the two diamonds above. I know it is very hard to judge a diamond by it's numbers, but 'statistically' which one of the above two has better proportions?

I am leaning towards the first one with a 65% table 74.9% depth in the hope the crown % and angle will be of decent height/value.

At least with this dealer, idealscope and ASET images are provided once it is 'called in'.

So, would people agree that based on the proportions given above, the 65/74.9 is likely to be more ideal than the 68/70?

Any feedback appreciated!

No. No one can tell you anything about the proportions. Honestly either could be a dog. Either could be gorgeous. I thought we had already covered this.

I keep telling you this. Remember this:

Here is what I mean. Compare these two:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.00-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-295886
G color
VS2
Depth 76.3
Table 69
Ratio: 1.01
Excellent polish
Good Symmetry
Girdle Medium

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.00-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-283672
G color
VS2 clarity
Depth 76.2
Table 69.9
Ratio: 1.02
Very good polish
Very good symmetry
Girdle Thin to Slightly thick

Numbers are VERY close right? And the first one has a better girdle. And while the symmetry on the first one is only good, that's not a disqualifier with princeses.

Step away form the GIA stones. Have them get you an AGS0 that way you know it's a firecracker and you can buy it with peace of mind.

 

[Gypsy]

What about Blue Nile Australia? They have G-cal reports for their Signature Line Princesses that at LEAST have images and light performance evaluations.

http://www.bluenile.com/au/diamond-search?pt=sig&track=NavDiaSigPR#diamonds_pid=LD03410425 Like this one. It's doing to be a nice stone.

 

[MrRevhead]

Gypsy, I am aware of what you have previously said, but like I have also previously noted AGS stones that meet the criteria of 5mm x 5mm are out of the budget range. Personally, I don't have a problem with a 4.8mm stone, but the min 5x5 thing is a stupid rule the other half is insisting upon since the initial diamond she was looking at and I had convinced her that I would not be getting it as it didn't look the best was 5.2 The example you linked doesn't meet that criteria.

None the less, thanks for the awareness about Blue Nile's GCAL report. I am going to look through their site and hopefully look for one that meets the L/W we are after, that is rated Excellent for optical brilliance while remaining in budget.

Thanks once again

 

[Gypsy]

Gypsy, I am aware of what you have previously said, but like I have also previously noted AGS stones that meet the criteria of 5mm x 5mm are out of the budget range. Personally, I don't have a problem with a 4.8mm stone, but the min 5x5 thing is a stupid rule the other half is insisting upon since the initial diamond she was looking at and I had convinced her that I would not be getting it as it didn't look the best was 5.2 The example you linked doesn't meet that criteria.

None the less, thanks for the awareness about Blue Nile's GCAL report. I am going to look through their site and hopefully look for one that meets the L/W we are after, that is rated Excellent for optical brilliance while remaining in budget.

Thanks once again

Good idea. Stick to their Signature Diamonds.

 

[MrRevhead]

How about this diamond? It fits within my budget.

Any major concerns? Should I be worried about the location of the feather?

 

[MrRevhead]

Another option, but costs about 15% more than the previous one (over budget):

 

[MrRevhead]

Significant difference?

Both are graded the same for light performance etc Just different overall grade AGS 1 vs 2

 

[MrRevhead]

Another contender.

I am now trying to decide between the F VS2 and the H VS2 (1st and 3rd report posted). Both are at the same price point, offer ideal light performance, polish, symmetry, but the H is a more ideal cut.

Based on the Light Performance Map and cut overall, which is likely to present as a better looking stone?

 

[MrRevhead]

Bump!

I hope to order in the next day or so.

Thanks

 

[Gypsy]

I prefer Cut Grade 1stone. There is more red where you want it for edge to edge brilliance. .705 carat stone.

 

[MrRevhead]

Should I be concerned about the location of the feather on the VS2 stone?

It will be set in a 4 claw setting with L (90 degree) claws, similar to this:

 

[Gypsy]

The setting style is a nice choice. You do know the ring will not look like that though? The proportions aren't going to be the same.

As for the feather. Normally I'd say VS2 feathers are all safe. But the location of that one on a princess... can the vendor look at it tell you what he thinks?

 

[MrRevhead]

Yes, the setting is different, I have already seen it and selected it from a local jeweller. They had a 0.75ct in it that was uncertified, hence why I chose to select my own diamond to use with the setting.

The actual setting looks like this (sorry for poor quality as I had to zoom/crop)



^^ That is with a 0.75

I plan to be purchasing it through JA. I have been told by one of their staff in chat that they get a gemmologist to check over the diamond prior to shipping. Having never purchased from them before, I am not sure whether that is true or a marketing ploy.

Any experience with JA to verify if they do check and stand by their diamonds?

 

[MrRevhead]

Ok, a small update.

The good news is, I have received some feedback from JA re: the three diamonds I have selected.

The unfortunate news is, the third (non AGS) diamond (a GIA E VS2) ASET image has been misplaced, and I will need to wait another 2-3 days for the customer service representative to obtain it from the gemologists.

Below are the ASET images from 2 of the 3 diamonds as well as the feedback I have received for all 3 diamonds.

Can you please post your thoughts on which is the better ASET and why and whether there would be a noticable difference. There is about a 15% premium on each of these diamonds.

Diamond 1:



Diamond 2:



Can you please post your thoughts on which is the better ASET and why and whether there would be a noticable difference. There is a 15% premium on one of the diamonds compared to the other (same colour diamonds, similar clarity).

Thanks

 

[MrRevhead]

JA has emailed me the final ASET image. This is the 0.76 E VS2.

Diamond 3



I notice not as much contrast (blue) compared to the other two AGS diamonds. I assume the amount if green and red as a good thing?

Overall, how does this diamond compare to the other two AGS diamonds I posted above? Significantly or marginally better/worse?

I have 24hr's left before the diamonds are taken off hold/reservation, so i plan to make a final decision based on feedback by then.

Thanks in advance again for all the critique and feedback to date!

 

[Gypsy]

What did you end up buying. I liked diamonds 1 and 2.