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Pregnancy discrimination... am I just screwed?

candy

Rough_Rock
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Mar 23, 2007
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72
I'm a bit shell-shocked and am hoping that someone with a legal or HR background will see this and help shed some light.

I work as an independent consultant (contractor) and am 5 months pregnant. Despite the fact that I'm not a W-2 employee, I've held the same position for 10 years and my job has always seemed more stable than most. I told my boss teo months ago that I'm pregnant and planned a 6 week maternity leave, and I had his full support.

Fast forward 2 months. My department is in the midst of a reorg, but I was not too worried about my job until today. I had a meeting with my new boss and she started by saying to me, "I understand you're expecting, and some people here have concerns with that." I was so shocked and, rather than ask what she meant, I just assured her that I had a plan in place and would definitely be returning. The rest of our meeting was positive.

But I left the meeting and burst into tears. I know that major changes are coming to my department, and now I feel that I'm at risk just because I'm pregnant. I reached out to others in the company for advice and was told to contact HR immediately. (One person who gave this advice is the company's Assistant General Counsel -- and this is one of the largest companies in the world, not some mom and pop shop.)

But, the more I think about it, I'm not an employee and I don't have any rights. They can just end my contract for any reason they want, right? (I'm in the state of PA, if it matters.) This is my worst fear come true and I honestly have no clue how to proceed. I don't want to make waves by going to HR if it will result in a dead end, and wonder if I should just suck it up and see what happens.

Any words of wisdom??
 

Karl_K

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As one independent contractor/consultant to another.
As an independent contractor you are your own employer.
You are not eligible for the benefits offered employees by your clients and the only rights you have is what is spelled out in your contract with the company.
If maternity leave is not spelled out in your contract(You can bet its not) then they can use non-availability to work as a reason to terminate your contract.
In reality you can bet your contract says they can terminate the contract at any time for any or no reason.
 

ElizabethR

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Candy, it may be that you are talented enough for them to be considerate and make the way so you can be kept onboard. Many big company's want to keep the talent they have and are willing to work around the problems in order to do just that. Here's hoping your company is one of them.

Hope it all goes well for you.'
Elizabeth
 

JulieN

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I"m so confused. I thought independent contractors were self employed.
 

missy

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JulieN|1348723901|3275315 said:
I"m so confused. I thought independent contractors were self employed.

Sometimes (often) that is on paper only. I am a consultant (independent contractor) where I work but in name only because in reality it's just for them to be able to give me a 1099 vs W2 and get away with not paying SS, benefits, etc.

Karl is right- they can terminate at any time for no reason.

Candy, I am so sorry about this- that really is an unfair situation and I hope that since the rest of your meeting was positive with the new boss that perhaps she will just hire someone temporarily to fill in for you and hold your job for you. I have seen that before so hopefully they will do the same for you. Is there anyone higher up you can go to in order to make sure this happens?

Good luck and best wishes on a healthy pregnancy.
 

candy

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Thanks for the comments. This confirms what I assumed to be true -- they can terminate my contract for any reason. And I do think the concern was that I'll be taking maternity leave during a very important project that I have a key role in, not necessarily that they are looking to get rid of me. In general, this company is very supportive of work-life issues, even for contractors, so I was shocked by this new boss's statement.

I'm feeling pressure to document this with HR -- even my direct manager is telling me I should do so (it was his boss, two levels up from me, who made the comment to me). And I'm confused by the fact that someone high up in the company's legal department "strongly recommends" that I contact HR "immediately" even though I'm a contractor. Any thoughts on that?
 

rubybeth

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candy|1348739017|3275361 said:
Thanks for the comments. This confirms what I assumed to be true -- they can terminate my contract for any reason. And I do think the concern was that I'll be taking maternity leave during a very important project that I have a key role in, not necessarily that they are looking to get rid of me. In general, this company is very supportive of work-life issues, even for contractors, so I was shocked by this new boss's statement.

I'm feeling pressure to document this with HR -- even my direct manager is telling me I should do so (it was his boss, two levels up from me, who made the comment to me). And I'm confused by the fact that someone high up in the company's legal department "strongly recommends" that I contact HR "immediately" even though I'm a contractor. Any thoughts on that?

I am not a lawyer, but I will say that in my own dealings with HR, it is very clear to me that they exist to protect the employer, NOT the employee. Saying "I understand you're expecting, and some people here have concerns with that" isn't like saying "You're pregnant and we don't like that, so your contract will be terminated on your last day." Can you ask your supervisor to talk to his boss about her comments? Did you get the feeling she was implying that you wouldn't have a job if you left and tried to come back? Can you or your supervisor ask her to clarify what the expectations are if you leave and then want to return? If she hems and haws, then you'll know something is up, but if she says, "oh, no, there were just comments that we'd get behind if we didn't have you around, so we'll be looking for a temp to cover while you're out" then that's another ball of wax, you know?

It's probably true that people have concerns about you being pregnant. Sometimes women don't return to work for a variety of reasons, and don't let their employer know that they won't be back until the very end of their leave, leaving the employer with a hole that hasn't been filled for weeks that they then have to post/interview/hire for when they are likely already behind because of the person being on leave, not to mention that they have to train them. It could be that people feel you aren't working as hard now that you're pregnant, even if that's not true. It could be this own woman's bias coming out (the old 'there have been comments that your work isn't up to snuff' can be code for 'I am your boss and I think your work isn't up to snuff').

I think you need to find out a bit more before going to HR. Does your employer have an Employee Assistance Program (EAP)? Sometimes they can give you advice on whether or not to go to HR.
 

fleur-de-lis

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candy|1348739017|3275361 said:
Thanks for the comments. This confirms what I assumed to be true -- they can terminate my contract for any reason. And I do think the concern was that I'll be taking maternity leave during a very important project that I have a key role in, not necessarily that they are looking to get rid of me. In general, this company is very supportive of work-life issues, even for contractors, so I was shocked by this new boss's statement.

I'm feeling pressure to document this with HR -- even my direct manager is telling me I should do so (it was his boss, two levels up from me, who made the comment to me). And I'm confused by the fact that someone high up in the company's legal department "strongly recommends" that I contact HR "immediately" even though I'm a contractor. Any thoughts on that?


Whoa, whoa, whoa! There is a lot of BAD "legal" advice in this thread. (To wit, on the issue of an employers' right to terminate for "any" reason, can a contractor be terminated for racial reasons? Of course not; in many situations, overarching laws take precedence over a simple contract drawn between two individuals for going against public interest.)

Candy, there is a saying that free legal advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

If this is an issue where the benefit to you (of maintaining and being paid for work is greater than the cost of a consultation with a specialist), spend a few hundred bucks to meet with a PA-barred attorney who specializes in sex/gender discrimination cases within the field of employment law. I am not an attorney with license to practice in Pennsylvania so this is not legal advice, but in addition to the federal law with which many people have a passing familiarity (Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which provides protection to employees but not contractors), a quick google search revealed that within your state there is a law called the Pennsylvania Human Relations Act which DOES also apply to contractors, which according to the website I'm going to link, does apply to independent contractors who are in a profession regulated by the Pennsylvania Bureau of Professional and Occupational Affairs. (Source: http://www.waldmanlawgroup.com/practice/emp_discrimination/gender.php) Whether this applies to you in YOUR situation is something that a qualified, experienced attorney could answer far better than a kindly, well-meaning, non-lawyer could.

Also, as several other posters like Rubybeth before me mentioned on this thread, HR is not your friend and it's better to consider them an arm of the legal defense of the company. Their goal is to prevent their company from being sued for violating laws, not in informing potential claimants of the law-- which is why it is in your interest for you to pay for a consultation with an outside counsel who is experienced in these sorts of matters.
 

Karl_K

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fleur-de-lis|1348762378|3275503 said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa! There is a lot of BAD "legal" advice in this thread. (To wit, on the issue of an employers' right to terminate for "any" reason, can a contractor be terminated for racial reasons? Of course not; in many situations, overarching laws take precedence over a simple contract drawn between two individuals for going against public interest.)
They would not say that was the reason and it would pretty much be impossible to prove without other incidents.
It is a fact that at any time a contact employee under the standard boilerplate agreements can be let go with nothing more than "we no longer need your services".
There is no recourse.
 

HollyS

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I wish I had encouraging words for you. But, since you are not their employee, they do not need to allow you a pregnancy leave. Now, if they consider you a valuable asset, it would be wise of them to honor your wishes for a leave. But I've worked for over 35 years, and I don't think I've worked for anyone who didn't view their bottom line first above all else.
 

fleur-de-lis

Brilliant_Rock
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Karl_K|1348766026|3275533 said:
fleur-de-lis|1348762378|3275503 said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa! There is a lot of BAD "legal" advice in this thread. (To wit, on the issue of an employers' right to terminate for "any" reason, can a contractor be terminated for racial reasons? Of course not; in many situations, overarching laws take precedence over a simple contract drawn between two individuals for going against public interest.)
They would not say that was the reason and it would pretty much be impossible to prove without other incidents.
It is a fact that at any time a contact employee under the standard boilerplate agreements can be let go with nothing more than "we no longer need your services".
There is no recourse.


The issue is whether employers do not have the right to terminate for "any" reason because there exist overarching laws that take precedence over a simple contract. There appears in fact to be laws on the book in Pennsylvania which may help Candy, which she deserves to know and is probably worth having a consultation with an expert. The example you provide ("people will lie to get around the law") is a strawman argument, and employment discrimination lawyers see them and successfully battle against them for their clients all the time.
 

chrono

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I am afraid I have to agree with Karl on all his points.
1. You are not an employee, but a contractor. Therefore, you do not share their company benefits.
2. HR is on the side of the company, not the employee.
3. A contractor can and will be let go under the pretext of "services no longer required". It doesn't matter if the true reason is something else because it is very difficult to prove in court.

I've experienced this before myself. I was around 3 months pregnant, a direct employee and have a long list of company-wide awards for high performance, with at least one for that year itself, yet I was dismissed under the pretext of poor performance. It doesn't make any sense but the company knew I am planning to take 2 months off and they needed me to travel overseas heavily. :nono:
 

smitcompton

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Hi,

I think the individual who told you to call HR, could have meant you should inform HR that you will be gone for 6 weeks after having the baby. I don't think its quite so sinister. You are covering yourself and letting them know at the same time. Tell them you plan to return to work and hope the job that you have had for ten yrs will still be there.

I worked with a lot of independent contracters. The company and individual managers depended on them. If they informed an individual manager that they were having surgery, they would have been told to contact the main office. Our company would not have let them go. But you should inform them.

You ought to check with an attorney as suggested in other posts.

Annette
 

fleur-de-lis

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Chrono|1348767865|3275553 said:
I am afraid I have to agree with Karl on all his points.
1. You are not an employee, but a contractor. Therefore, you do not share their company benefits.
2. HR is on the side of the company, not the employee.
3. A contractor can and will be let go under the pretext of "services no longer required". It doesn't matter if the true reason is something else because it is very difficult to prove in court.

I've experienced this before myself. I was around 3 months pregnant, a direct employee and have a long list of company-wide awards for high performance, with at least one for that year itself, yet I was dismissed under the pretext of poor performance. It doesn't make any sense but the company knew I am planning to take 2 months off and they needed me to travel overseas heavily. :nono:

Chrono, I'm so sorry to hear this happened to you. It must have been VERY hard. (It angers me as a woman to hear how common these stories are. I know most women don't, but did you, per chance, find and pay for a consultation with a employment/discrimination lawyer at the time, or did you focus more on moving forward? I'm afraid I don't remember your story if you've posted it here before.)
 

chrono

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Fleur,
I've never discussed this with anyone else other than my immediate family, and this is the first time I'm mentioning this online. I considered talking to a lawyer to see what my odds are, but in the end, decided to move forward. I found full time permanent employment with another very good international company less than a month later. The company that dismissed me is an internationally known company.
 

zoebartlett

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I like FDL's suggestion of contacting a lawyer who is familiar with this and see his or her advice. I'm not a lawyer and I have no idea what legal recourse you may have, if any. If I was in your situation, here's what I'd do though:

Call up an experienced attorney and I'd also send an e-mail to your boss (that's who made the comment, right?), asking her to clarify what she meant. Then you'd have a reply with her thoughts in writing and that's something you could show an attorney if needed. I'm not sure whether e-mails legally "count" as getting something in writing, but I'm assuming it's better than nothing.

Good luck!
 

miraclesrule

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fleur,

Unfortunately, employers will find all sorts of pretextual reasons to terminate someone if they need to do so. What they can't do, is discriminate. What I wouldn't do for you to have a tape recording of that conversation and then have them release you from your contract. Then you would have a case.

My daughter worked as a W-2 employee for 13 years at a very large banking company in the U.S. and she was re-org'ed out when she was out on maternity leave and the baby was only 4 weeks old. How do they get away with it? Because they can....and they will outfire and outspend on legal manuevering.

You may not be in jeopardy, but if I were you, I'd have a back up plan. I work in H.R. and often have to counsel them on issues like this, but just know that even if you are an IC, it is against public policy to discriminate based on pregnancy. The problem is that they will use the re-org as a legitimate business decision support and not the pregnancy. I'm sorry this is stressing you out at a time that you should be enjoying your pregnancy. That just sucks, sucks, sucks!!

Chin up...trust the universe. P.s. My daughter now runs her own company and is much happier. That would have never happened if she hadn't been "displaced". Congratulations on your future new family addition!! :appl:
 

Arcadian

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I will agree with Karl here. If you are in an "At will" state, and dependent upon the terms of your employment and what you agreed to, yes they can fire you for any reason that is not covered under EEOC. If its proven that the company let you go and the reason is under EEOC, then yes you could well sue and be compensated.

I'm going to say this; take it how you will but I've been doing this for a whole lot of years; Because you're a contractor, going to their HR department may not do you any good, and can in fact hurt you.

Are you a direct or sub? If you're a subcontractor, then you'll need to take it up with the company you're working through.

Like many, I contract myself out as well. Usually as direct but I've subbed as well. No matter how its done I always look over the terms of the contract, and I've got boilerplate that I update periodically (all have went through a lawyer, money well spent!) I ALWAYS negotiate time off that they pay for. Why people don't do this more is beyond me.


All isn't lost, its not dismal, but you just have to know the laws of the state you're in and doing business with. Your contract with said company is what matters; how did you negotiate with them? Is it spelled out in your contract to acct for these types of things? Did you negotiate a set amount of time off without penalty?

I will say this; consult with a lawyer on your behalf. If you're direct, then you're basically your own employee, and, you'll have to fight for yourself here. Even as a sub, find out whats in your contract what you signed, then consult a lawyer.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/01/art1full.pdf
 

telephone89

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I disagree with almost every single comment in this thread. While I cannot give you legal advice, I would strongly suggest you speak to someone in your state who is qualified to do so.

That being said, just because someone is a contract worker does not mean they can be fired willy nilly. Yes, a contract can be ended at any time - but there are still exceptions. Your contract can't be ended because you're a woman. Or because you're black. Or because you got divorced. I mean, I'm not 100% sure how it works in the US, but in Canada, you still have federal protections that override any business or contract. Specifically SAYING 'youre pregnant and we have concerns' is literally opening them up to a lawsuit. They told you, if you get fired, its because of that bump - which is illegal. If they hadve said 'Youre on contract, and we have concerns', totally different.

If I were you, I would absolutely follow up with HR. What they are saying and considering is probably 100% illegal. Please don't sit idly by and let them take advantage of you like that.

That said, I'd reconsider working for a company with such morals that they'd consider illegally firing someone because they're pregnant. Shit, in the US you don't even get real mat leave. I've known people who take vacations longer than 6 weeks (paid vacations), and they are gallivanting around the world, not taking care of a human that they grew and popped out!

eta - from my POV, it's actually NOT hard to prove in court. I've seen so many human rights complaints based on far far less. People just don't want to try, and that's how the faceless corporations keep on doing these things.
 

chrono

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Umm, folks, this thread is 4 years old.
 

telephone89

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Sigh.

Probably a spammer that bumped it. Whoopsies
 

candy

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Very funny to see an ancient thread of mine get resurrected by a spammer! I don't post often but am always grateful for how helpful this community is, so thought I may as well post an update.

A few days after that conversation with Witchy Bosslady, I came to the conclusion that I was totally screwed. I wasn't an employee and had no concrete proof of what she had said to me. Even though the company's General Counsel had made the suggestion to go to HR, I realized they were only saying that because technically they had been informed that discrimination had occurred and would be at risk if they gave me any response other than the one they did. But I knew that going to HR would only backfire on me, so I just put my head down and kept working. Had a sweet baby boy, took six unpaid weeks off, and went back to work as planned.

A year later, Witchy Bosslady extended a very nice full time job offer, which I accepted. Within a year or two, her evil ways caught up to her and she was removed from management. There was a re-org and I got a new boss, had another baby and took a very long and fully paid maternity leave since I was now an employee :)

Oh, and then there was another re-org and Witchy Bosslady (who is no longer a boss of anything) somehow ended up back on my team as a peer to all her former employees that she had treated horribly. Ah, corporate America :lol:
 

chrono

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Appreciate the update and what a ride! Congratulations on the new family (2 children now!) and a satisfying career. :appl:
 

VRBeauty

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Thanks for coming back to let us know how things turned out - and I'm glad they turned out so well for you (and your family)! :appl:
 

tyty333

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:lol: Karma...she nows works with the people she used to boss...I'm so glad things worked out for you! Thanks for the update!
 

daintyG

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Wow, I'm so glad it worked out for you! And I'm glad they didn't keep WB in charge of people much longer!
 

Karl_K

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Thanks for the update.
Glad it worked out!!!
Congrates!!!
 
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