Pre-pre-marital counseling was a bust...

[cherry_vanilla]

So a few weeks ago, the boyfriend and I went in for a session of pre-pre-marital counseling since while I was starting to feel it was better to wait a year or so when we're actually engaged, he wanted to make sure we weren't doing something wrong that would screw us up before then. Of course, this plan works best when you're not discriminated against just walking in the door

As soon as I said I was 21, BAM! the therapist was instantly biased against me since I was clearly too young and immature, and even started attacking my beliefs on why I was "demanding he propose before moving in together." (exact quote) This was a few weeks ago so I forget most of the details, but that one line stuck out at me. Nevermind the fact it was BOTH our ideas to get some sort of pre-marital counseling, he's totally fine with waiting until engagement to live together (it's not even an option unless we don't get engaged until 2009) I'll be 22 when we get engaged and 23/24 when married with at least one if not two semesters of grad school under my belt, and dating for 6 years. Nope! The fact is I'm 21 right now, so clearly there is little more to this than me wanting to trap my boyfriend into marriage and demanding a sparkly ring to show off to all my friends

Needless to say I left the session in tears and we didn't go back. We decided to get that "relationship insurance" he was seeking with pre-pre-marital counseling was not worth risking getting someone else who would immediately shut me out due to my age. Earlier this week I talked to my mom about it, since my parents got engaged at 19 and married right out of college at 21 I knew she couldn't give me crap about being too young. She told me that probably the only thing we did do wrong was going in the first place since it'd cause it to appear we did have something major underlying problem to fix before getting engaged. In reality, I think my boyfriend pushed so hard for pre-pre-marital counseling because his dad is a divorce lawyer and heard many a tale of the cases he was working on while growing up and wound up overcompensating to keep from winding up divorced himself by not fixing everything way in advance. My boyfriend was looking for a guarantee that could never exist I think.

I dunno, it just really annoyed me that what I thought was going to be a good thing wound up blowing up in my face like that just due to my age. I never wanted to be a "young bride," I'm doing everything in my power to avoid falling into that stereotype but I also don't want to be "just dating" for 10 years to avoid getting pidgeon-holed like that either.

On the plus side, my boyfriend is way more into this wedding/marriage thing than I could have ever thought - he even signed up an account at The Knot so he can start doing research and looking into locations which really surprised me (if not jumping the gun a little bit for a late '09-early '10 wedding!) I know for me the whole "waiting to be engaged" is more of an technicality than anything else since we didn't want an uber-long engagement especially with my senior year coming up, but I really don't think any sort of wedding/marriage planning is going to sit right or sink in until it's official, you know?

Blah, this wound up being really long, but I don't have anywhere else to rant and ramble to.

 

[anchor31]

Man, I would have been pissed!

I was engaged at 21, and I didn''t want to move in with my BF until we were engaged either... I got those comments about being too young, manipulating my then-BF and wanting a sparkly to show off, blablabla, so I can relate.

I''m glad to know that your BF found the source of his insecurity and saw that the pre-pre-marital counselling might have been a mistake. I''m impressed that he''s so involved in the planning already!

Remember that you don''t need anyone, professional or no, to validate your beliefs and your relationship. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulder and you and your BF have the same views on marriage and cohabitation, and that''s all you need.

 

[Becky P]

cherry_vanilla - Sorry the pre-premarital counseling was a bust! That''s too bad! I ordered a few books online from amazon.com to kind of do the pre-premarital counseling ourselves - at least so we could start thinking about all the things that we needed to consider prior to getting engaged. I''d HIGHLY recommend the book 1001 Questions to Ask Before You Get Married. It covers a HUGE range of topics and limits the amount of author input on what the "correct" answer should be. It''s got fun charts and things to fill out and I really think we''re going to get a lot out of it. The first third of the book, however, wasn''t really anything we hadn''t already discussed, but the last 2/3 were all really great, practical things to talk about.

Also, I ordered two other books and was NOT impressed with them at all. They were 365 Questions for Couples, which was a lot of the "What if" type questions... you know those books, if you could have dinner with any famous person, who would it be any why type things?? That''s what it was like. The other one was Don''t You Dare Get Married Until You Read This! The Book of Questions for Couples. It was similar to the book I liked, except the author spent a lot more time talking about what your answers might be and what they might mean rather than simply giving you the questions as tools...

So, you might want to think about ordering the 1001 Questions book and talking through the different chapters together. It might give your bf a little of what he''s looking for and give you both things to think about.

 

[peridot83]

I''m so sorry that happened. There''s such a range in the quality of counselors and psychologists as well as so many differen personalities, it''s often hard to get one to focus on the issues YOU think are important. My friend went in for couples couneseling once and they wanted to talk about X issue, and the counselor kept on talking about the long distance. They kept on reiterating long distance is NOT the issue, we dont'' want to waste the hour talking about that!

Part of the problem is many take on a "superior parental" attitude when they see someone that they judge as young and inexperienced. Their attitude is "Well, you may THINK this is what you want to talk about. but this is what you ACTUALLY need to talk about." This sort of presumption, based on a 5 minute synopsis of a couples relationship is really condescending. It''s one thing for a psychologist you''ve been seeing for 3 months to tell you "these are the real issues," but for someone whose only known you for 10 minutes?

Becky P''s book suggestion sounds like exactly what you need. A way to pick and choose for yourself what issues need to be worked on and explore those issues on your own. If somethign can''t be resolved, only then would I think of seeking couple counseling again.

 

[Miscka]

This is a great idea! I did something similar with my BF, we took some personality-type tests (my dorky psych major version I guess) and we looked at our different answers and talked about them. The questions we along the lines of "what would hurt you most in a relationship?" etc.

Cherry V I am sorry your counseling didnt go very well. It is very unprofessional of your counselor to judge you based on age. I am only a little older than you, and I hate when people judge me, since in my head I feel 30! Good luck, hang in there!

 

[princesss]

cherry_vanilla, I am so sorry you had to go through that! I think I probably would have slapped the "therapist" right out of her chair. I hate it when people (ESPECIALLY in her position, as a figure of authority and somebody you had to pay to yell at you) attack like that instead of trying to be helpful at all. What a cow.

As for her trying to dictate when you should move in together...ugh. I applaud your restraint in not smacking her.

 

[surfgirl]

Well, from an older perspective...I think you''re going for pre-marital counseling is a fine idea. Healthy, even! But it sounds like you got a counselor who you didn''t click with. Years ago (too many to count!), my FI and I went for couples counseling and even though I met with the woman first to explain what I felt the issues were, she slammed me the minuted we got into the session and basically said "well, I cant help you. You should break up." Or something to that effect. I didn''t go near another counselor for a long time, until we almost broke up and then, by sheer luck, I found through a friend''s referral, a wonderful counselor who has really helped us get to the bottom of alot of our issues, both individually and as a couple. I think couples counseling can be a great and healthy asset to couples because let''s face it - way too many marriages end in divorce these days and it''s difficult to communicate sometimes so a little help now and then never hurt anyone. You just need to find the right counselor. I''ve found that referrals are the best way to find someone good. And if you decide to go again, shop around by calling them and talking to them for a few minutes. You can ask them directly if they have personal bias'' towards those who marry young, etc. and thereby, weed out those counselors who aren''t a fit for you...Good luck.

 

[havernell]

Yuck! What a disappoinment this couselor was! Sorry you had to endure that.

However, please don't give up on couples couseling all together because you ran into one bad apple! I think pre-engagement couseling is a great idea and one that could really be beneficial for any couple. It sounds like couseling is something both you and your boyfriend really wanted to do (for good reasons), so I wouldn't let this one woman steal the experience away from you. I'm sure there are other conselors in the area that would be lightyears better than this one.

If you do look for another counselor, get references from other people first to make sure you find a good couselor!!! Perhaps try asking on your local Knot board who other younger couples have used and found helpful or ask your university health services if they can recommend anyone who deals with younger couples. Finding the right couselor may take some work and time, but I'm certain you'll find someone wonderful in the end.

Good luck with it!

ETA: Apparently surfgirl and I not only think alike, but we type our posts at the same time!

 

[cherry_vanilla]

Wow, I''m floored by how many responses I got so quickly! Since a lot of the advice/comments seemed to overlap (and I don''t have a lot of time to reply right now) I''ll touch upon a few of them:

- The therapist was actually a guy, not like it matters but it confused me when most people referred to the therapist as female. On second thought, guys are more likely to have blanket YOU CANNOT GET MARRIED BEFORE XX YEARS OF AGE rules for themselves, so this might explain it.

- My boyfriend had actually asked the guy if he was going to be OK with me being on the young side before making the appointment, but again perhaps he was already certain what the "right" answer to our "problem" was. I''m really in no hurry to try again, especially since we aren''t planning on getting hitched for another 2.5 years. And my boyfriend is ok with that after seeing what how badly I got ragged on (we''re planning on going to look at rings in NYC one of the weekends I''m back home from my internship, so it wasn''t such an ironclad requirement!)

- We actually were going through one of those e-books "1000 Questions for Couples" earlier in the year, but it was lots of stuff that either didn''t apply to us (due to our ages, no prior marriages/children, we''re not religious, etc) general "if you could have dinner with any author who would it be?" stuff you do as ice breakers in summer camp, or stuff that anyone in a serious relationship of more than a year would know. Not getting what we wanted out of that was one of the reasons we wanted to turn to counseling.

- While I think it has its merits, in our case I think we''re better off waiting until we are officially engaged before pursuing further pre-marital counseling. I think it will help us be taken more seriously and less "she''s just a needy girl trying to make him propose before he''s ready." As I mentioned, we don''t have any glaring red flags or issues that can''t wait until we get engaged, we''ve actually been to regular couples counseling a few times before for other issues that have been worked out, again I think he''s just trying to overcompensate based on his dad''s profession and seeing a number of his/our friends enter into engagements/marriages with more red flags than Chinese New Year. When I talked to my mom, she said that the pastor at her church has experiences with younger couples and would be willing to do the pre-marital counseling with us, but probably wouldn''t feel comfortable doing it before we''re engaged and already made the formal commitment which I can accept.

 

[bec]

My bf and I are also doing pre-marital before actual engagement. The first woman we went to told me that because I''m a social worker I will never make much money and because of my BF''s job he never will either... then she said that it was too late for me but she would normally tell women in my position to find a man who makes more money. ummm.. thanks, that''s really helpful. She wanted to give him an apptitude assess ment in the next session to find out what jobs he would be good at so that we will make more money. Long story short we did not go back, we went to a second woman who has been wonderful... it''s all about finding someone you mesh with. Good luck!

 

[diamondfan]

I think it was so mature that you even went and it was judgemental of the clinician to do that to you. Very close minded. You seem to have good associations with getting married young since you have a nice example (I assume) in your parents marriage. Your guy, on the other hand, knows of some of the harsh realities so he is understandably trying to prevent problems. But I think you wisely put it when you said that you think he might be looking for guarantees or ways to ensure against issues but in reality even counseling does not always prevent problems. I would be interested to see if there is any research on couples who went to premarital counseling and the divorce rates among those couples, are they lower, the same or higher than couples who did not? Just interesting to me. You seem very centered to me. No matter what, this therapist does not seem like a good fit for you. Not all therapists are good, competent or nice, just as in any field. There might be better ones out there for your needs, someone who might help you just clarify some potential hot button issues, but I am not sure that is super critical right now. You seem to have a very good head on your shoulders.