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Possible leakage under the table, indecision, help!

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MaryCarolyn

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
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Hi all,
A while back I posted the specs for a 1.27 E/SI2/GIA Excellent, and my now-finance ordered the stone from James Allen before we could get an ideal scope. I was worried that it might be borderline steep and deep. Some PSers thought that it would be ok, even with GIA rounding, but others were unsure without seeing an idealscope. Here are the specs again:


Table 58%
Depth 61.1%
Pav Angle 40.8
Crown Angle 35.0
Pav 43.0%
Crown 14.5%
medium girdle
Polish EX
Sym EX
Flouro None

I LOVE the stone, and got a great SI2, as I can''t even seen the inclusions with a loupe. It looks brilliant and sparkly most of the time, except in some lighting conditions (especially in the car) it seems to show some leakage under the table. It was rated "premium" cut on JA-- below "ideal" and "true hearts." I don''t know if I am just paranoid-- maybe no diamond looks its best in all lighting conditions? I have attached a picture, but it doesn''t really capture the kind of darkness I think I am seeing...

My question is this-- what to do? Is it normal for a diamond not to have perfect light return in all lighting conditions, or is this an indication that it might not have best proportions? Should I send it back for an idealscope? Will they do this? Is it worth it? Or should I exchange for another stone for which I feel more confident about the cut? The only "true hearts" JA stone in our price range is this one http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1218718.asp
but I am worried I will see the difference in the E to I color downgrade. I think I need to stay in the same size range so that the halo setting won''t have to be re-done.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP AND OPINIONS!!
 
sorry, here is the pic

DSC0146822.jpg
 
If you are really worried, get an idealscope yourself or sent it to an appraiser who has these scopes? You have to do an appraisal for insurance anyway, right?

The above image looks fine to me, more like you are seeing the black arrows of the stone.
 
Date: 8/23/2009 7:46:04 PM
Author:MaryCarolyn
Hi all,
A while back I posted the specs for a 1.27 E/SI2/GIA Excellent, and my now-finance ordered the stone from James Allen before we could get an ideal scope. I was worried that it might be borderline steep and deep. Some PSers thought that it would be ok, even with GIA rounding, but others were unsure without seeing an idealscope. Here are the specs again:


Table 58%
Depth 61.1%
Pav Angle 40.8
Crown Angle 35.0
Pav 43.0%
Crown 14.5%
medium girdle
Polish EX
Sym EX
Flouro None

I LOVE the stone, and got a great SI2, as I can't even seen the inclusions with a loupe. It looks brilliant and sparkly most of the time, except in some lighting conditions (especially in the car) it seems to show some leakage under the table. It was rated 'premium' cut on JA-- below 'ideal' and 'true hearts.' I don't know if I am just paranoid-- maybe no diamond looks its best in all lighting conditions? I have attached a picture, but it doesn't really capture the kind of darkness I think I am seeing...

My question is this-- what to do? Is it normal for a diamond not to have perfect light return in all lighting conditions, or is this an indication that it might not have best proportions? Should I send it back for an idealscope? Will they do this? Is it worth it? Or should I exchange for another stone for which I feel more confident about the cut? The only 'true hearts' JA stone in our price range is this one http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1218718.asp
but I am worried I will see the difference in the E to I color downgrade. I think I need to stay in the same size range so that the halo setting won't have to be re-done.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP AND OPINIONS!!
Click to expand...
Diamonds can only work with the available lighting, they won't look good in all lighting conditions. What are you seeing exactly, is it a dark ring around the table or dark patches? If you are unsure try this, go to a Jareds if there is one in your area and compare your diamond with their AGS0 Peerless or alternatively, Hearts on Fire if there is a dealer near you. See if you can view some out of the store lights or under a desk in dim lighting, this could give you a comparison for your diamond.
 
I agree with Lorelei. Visit some stores and compare your ring to their ideal cuts; also, make sure you keep your diamond clean! Any lotion or finger grease on the stone will affect its performance.
 
Table 58%
Depth 61.1%

I LOVE the stone, and got a great SI2, as I can't even seen the inclusions with a loupe. It looks brilliant and sparkly most of the time, except in some lighting conditions (especially in the car) it seems to show some leakage under the table. It was rated 'premium' cut on JA-- below 'ideal' and 'true hearts.' I don't know if I am just paranoid-- maybe no diamond looks its best in all lighting conditions? I have attached a picture, but it doesn't really capture the kind of darkness I think I am seeing...
Click to expand...
Just to add to the excellent posts of the others. JA rates any diamond with a 58% or larger table as "premium" regardless of angles and proportions, thus shoving some diamonds down to "premium" that are better cut than others rated "ideal". The numbers on your stone are excellent, so don't let the vendor description make you second guess it.
 
Thanks everyone for your thoughts! Very good point made about the automation of JA''s cut quality categories, so I should not just assume it is flawed because it did not make the Ideal category. There is a Jared near me, so I think I will try to go this weekend to compare. I am just concerned that the store won''t have the lighting condition that seems to cause the darkness. It looks like the whole circle below the table is just darker. I have attached another picture, which I think shows this better.

My 30 day return is approaching so I am just wondering if I should exchange it for a stone that has slightly better numbers to make sure there is no leakage. What do you all think is the cutoff for ensuring that it is not steep and deep, taking possible GIA rounding into account? Also, do you think I would notice a big difference in downgrading in color from E to H?

DSC01471223.jpg
 
The number for you stone is good, should not have an extreme leakage you are thinking it to have. The darkness is more like obstruction which is not leakage.

Just request an idealscope image for the next stone you are looking at if you want to exchange the stone.

What is the GIA report number for this stone?
 
I certainly will request an idealscope before purchasing another one! That is one lesson I have learned ;)
I am just torn/ unsure about what I am seeing with my current stone and am not sure whether I should return/exchange it!
Here is the GIA report number 1102840306

Thank you!!
 
Do you have an independent appraiser near you that has ASET/IS scope?

https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

Just get an appointment with him and confirm if the leakage exist or not, that will be the simplest to overcome your doubt or confirm your fears.

Have you check with JA about your return period? I think it is almost there.
 
What you could be seeing as darkness could also be table reflection. This thread I posted awhile ago has some good graphics in it that explains how table size affects the amount of "darkness" you might see.
table size
 
Thanks, Sara! I think table reflection might be what I am seeing... I have attached one more picture-- I just really want to figure out what is causing this darkness in some lighting conditions!! Does this look like what you saw in yours? Which diamond did you end up choosing?

Thanks for anyone else''s thoughts too!!
 

Attachments

what is the lower half %?
 
Date: 8/29/2009 5:34:19 PM
Author: MaryCarolyn
Thanks, Sara! I think table reflection might be what I am seeing... I have attached one more picture-- I just really want to figure out what is causing this darkness in some lighting conditions!! Does this look like what you saw in yours? Which diamond did you end up choosing?


Thanks for anyone else''s thoughts too!!
Click to expand...

Storm (strmrdr a/k/a Karl) can advise you far better than I can about the technical reasons for what you''re seeing. (He''s one of the posters in that thread who was helping me understand what I was seeing).

But I can tell you that my diamond was also very white (a D) and I sometimes wonder if the clear, icy color of the stone magnified the "darkness" I saw in the stone. Your stone is also very white (E). I felt much better after seeing the graphic that John Pollard posted in that thread, because it explained what I was seeing perfectly!

I ended up sending that stone back, not because of the table reflection, but because I wanted a more precise H&A cut. I also was not crazy about how "white" the D was - I like warmer color diamonds. I do have to say that I tend to prefer diamonds with smaller tables (between 55 - 56) and that''s what I have now. But that''s just my preference.

Unless Storm or one of the other experts on here has a concern about the darkness, and says that it''s a problem, I wouldn''t be too concerned about table reflection -- it''s apparently normal. Although it can be disconcerting when you first notice it!

It''s a very pretty ring, btw!
 
In the end, you need to have a mind clean stone - knowing it''s what you want as well as liking the look.

If I were in your case and second guessing the stone, just swap it for another one with better numbers, that way you mind is at ease too.
 
Best if you can compare some others of known cut quality, you do have a well cut stone but look at some others to see how other well cut diamonds behave, but the bottom line is if you are unhappy maybe its best to get another because of the mind clean factor as Honey mentioned. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Ditto what honey22 and Lorelei said -- if this darkness issue keeps bothering you, you may have a "mind clean" issue, which is often impossible to ignore.

I sent my stone back because the cut wasn''t as perfect as I wanted. Even though I couldn''t "see" the small hearts that Storm was commenting on in the IS I posted for evaluation, it still bothered me. I wanted a more precise cut. It was a "mind clean" issue for me.

Only you can decide if the darkness you''re perceiving is a deal breaker for you. Even if others can''t see it, or if it is in fact table reflection and "normal," if it bothers you, that''s what matters.

Are you still within your return period? Did the setting come from JA, too?

Let us know what you decide. There are great people on this forum who will be more than happy to help you find a new stone that works with your setting, if that''s what you decide to do.

Best of luck; I know it''s no fun to be in the position of having to return a diamond that you looked so forward to wearing, but the important thing is that you feel joy when you look at your ring, not doubt!
 
Thanks so much everyone!! Yes, I think it is a "mind clean" issue! Ah, to be a perfectionist! (but I think I am in good company here) ;)

Yes, the stone and setting came from JA-- we have to mail back in the next few days to make the return period. I am considering getting a different stone AND setting, maybe the Verragio 7033 like 1001 smiles''
I LOVE that setting!
her ring here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/verragio-insignia-with-1-5-ct-aca.118395/

What are everyone''s thoughts on this setting versus the Danhov ME29 that I currently have?

Before I give up on this stone though, I am going to see an appraiser. No one in my area has an idealscope, but one has a Sarin. Will this be able to show information about light return/ leakage similarly to the idealscope?

Thanks again everyone! I am continually blown away by how kind and knowledgeable all of you on PS are!
 
Does he has the Diamcalc software? If so, he can use the full sarin scan to generate a computed simulation of the stone and that can simulate what can be seen with an Idealscope.

You will need the full scan and not the average numbers.
 
Date: 8/30/2009 4:29:48 PM
Author: MaryCarolyn
Thanks so much everyone!! Yes, I think it is a 'mind clean' issue! Ah, to be a perfectionist! (but I think I am in good company here) ;)

Yes, the stone and setting came from JA-- we have to mail back in the next few days to make the return period. I am considering getting a different stone AND setting, maybe the Verragio 7033 like 1001 smiles'
I LOVE that setting!
her ring here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/verragio-insignia-with-1-5-ct-aca.118395/

What are everyone's thoughts on this setting versus the Danhov ME29 that I currently have?

Before I give up on this stone though, I am going to see an appraiser. No one in my area has an idealscope, but one has a Sarin. Will this be able to show information about light return/ leakage similarly to the idealscope?

Thanks again everyone! I am continually blown away by how kind and knowledgeable all of you on PS are!
Click to expand...
Any computer simulation isn't going to be an absolutely accurate representation of how the diamond looks unfortunately, and especially using Sarin results which gives detailed measurements of the stone, these can also vary in accuracy. Maybe if the appraiser has a trained eye they can advise on what you are seeing on inspecting the actual diamond which might be helpful to you.
 
What the darkness is in this pic is obstruction over the mains.
Unless the lower halfs and or pavilion mains are pretty goofy it shouldn't show in real life this bad based on the numbers. Is this what you see in person?
If you not happy with it return it.....

051320.jpg
 
Date: 8/30/2009 4:29:48 PM
Author: MaryCarolyn
Thanks so much everyone!! Yes, I think it is a 'mind clean' issue! Ah, to be a perfectionist! (but I think I am in good company here) ;)


Yes, the stone and setting came from JA-- we have to mail back in the next few days to make the return period. I am considering getting a different stone AND setting, maybe the Verragio 7033 like 1001 smiles'

I LOVE that setting!

her ring here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/verragio-insignia-with-1-5-ct-aca.118395/


What are everyone's thoughts on this setting versus the Danhov ME29 that I currently have?


Before I give up on this stone though, I am going to see an appraiser. No one in my area has an idealscope, but one has a Sarin. Will this be able to show information about light return/ leakage similarly to the idealscope?


Thanks again everyone! I am continually blown away by how kind and knowledgeable all of you on PS are!
Click to expand...
in order to run a sarin scan he has to remove the stone from the setting which may void your warranty on the setting so that is a catch 22.
 
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