Pomelo’s quest for red

[Pomelo]

Well now I feel like a stalker, but it really was just yesterday or the day before, right?



Oh, thank you -- that's good to know for next time! (And there will be a next time!) I guess I pushed a bit on a used GS in Osaka, and they offered me an extra couple of bucks off (3%, maybe?) if I shared some contact info so maybe that is more of a thing? But I did not negotiate for any jewelry, and my son's pearl earring purchase was pretty modestly priced.

Hahaha in your defence, I would probably also remember it if someone went to Japan just days after I left and posted photos of lots of bling!

I have asked for discounts before in Japan and didn’t get any so I didn’t even bother asking for a discount. However, after I told them I’d like a few more days to think about the ruby when I return to China, and they added my WeChat and the next day, offered the discount to me! So I think it really depends on store policy and how desperate they are to shift inventory.

 

[Avondale]

(hope you don’t mind me borrowing your imgur!)

Technically it's not mine - it was originally shared by Lilith112. She was considering buying the ring and the vendor sent her this video. It's such a great example of fluorescence that I had to save it and I've been sharing it left and right since.

Warning: rambling incoming.

So, on the subject of clarity, I'm all for silk. It's what makes the stone glow, these tiny microscopic inclusions that obstruct the light's path and divert it so it bounces around under unexpected angles.

I've noticed this with my sapphires. If the crystal is clear and perfectly transparent, it has the potential to be very sparkly, true. But with the movement comes a drawback - rays of light enter the stone and, instead of reflecting back through the crown, escape to the side through some facet or another. And in this case the material looks black because the light is just gone. Head on the colour may be majestic and spectacular, but turn the stone to the side and you're simply not seeing that same colour anymore.

Silk prevents that by simply being in the way. It's exactly the stones that are not perfectly clear, that have rutile, fingerprints, clouds and veils and wisps, and so on, that manage to hold their colour regardless of tilt and direction.

As it happened, the glowiest of mine are the two unheated ones. Blue isn't a colour that's typically glowy so it's kinda mesmerising to see it. It's where the magic happens. Not easy on the budget, for sure, but the inescapable reality is heat treatment dissolves these tiny microscopic inclusions which are so critical to the glowy look.

So, where does that leave you? Considering you're okay with heat, and you naturally gravitate towards the glowy look of more included stones, I would venture a guess that the perfect stone for you would be that exact ruby you started this thread about, if only someone could stick the pointy end of a cocktail umbrella in it as if it was a tiny cauldron and mix the silk from one half into the other.

This is not the one for you. It's beautiful, and the half veiled - half clear look is unique and one of a kind. But you don't see that uniqueness as a positive quality, as something to be admired, it actually bothers you. In your eyes, the stone has a bad side that looks like a garnet.

However, if I'm incorrect in my interpretation and the unique clarity characteristics don't bother you, then I would say the colour really is a banger.

The window is not necessarily a problem. We dislike windows because in darker toned stones they make the middle look black and lifeless, and in lighter tones stones it makes it look colourless and lifeless. But with a highly saturated stone that has just the right amount of silk to scatter the light inside, you don't really get these annoying drawbacks of windowing. Sure, you'll miss the flashes of light reflecting off of facets, but the colour will be there. So a windowed ruby has better chances of being tolerable compared to a windowed yellow sapphire, for example.

Fundamentally, it's all a matter of where your priorities lie. You won't be able to get something that's perfect, not unless you want to pay a house and a kidney. So what are the compromises you can make? The obvious ones are heat and clarity. A stone that has been heated but still has plenty of clouds and veils inside, maybe a fingerprint, a frosted halo or two. This will drive the price down. And if you can live with a small window, you'll also be able to look at stones that are just a tad bit shallow and give you more face up size for less carat weight.

When it comes to fluorescence, even though in my humble opinion fluorescence maketh ruby, pure red doesn't agree with it. Fluorescence just gives the stone a pinkish tint, even if it's more red in the shade. Now, I like pink, and I believe there's little point to buying ruby if you don't get to watch it light up in the sun, so this whole arrangement works for me. But if you're firm on the as pure as possible red, then the lack of fluorescence or weak fluorescence wouldn't necessarily be a drawback.

 

[voce]

I'm not sure if you've already read about this, but colour does change based on your lighting environment. What kind of lights do you have in the house? Place of work? Outdoors, UV (hence fluorescence or glow) exposure really varies with the latitude, so I would think that fluorescence matters less in natural light in Beijing in the wintertime compared to Singapore or Shenzhen. Since moving to Canada from California, I've found myself not reaching for silky gems and going for sparkle instead, as the weather is not sunny that often.

Another suggestion, unless you're considering a ruby as an "investment", is expanding your search to include red spinels. One of my most beautiful red gems is actually a spinel. You can usually find a better cut in a spinel and a better balance of a pure red color with silk.

Red spinel on ring finger vs red ruby on index finger at night. No difference in color quality.

Red ruby on ring finger and red spinel on index finger. No difference in color quality.


For a trip down memory lane, this was my ruby engagement ring when the light shone through my office window in California. I won't get anything like this in Canada.

Garnets and tourmalines just won't do it for me because they lean orange/brown or pink/purple, and not pure red.

 

[LilAlex]

^ Nice to hear your voce, @voce!

 

[Pomelo]

@Avondale Thank you so much for taking the time to “ramble” - I learnt a lot from your well-organised thoughts gleaned from years of experience. I really appreciate it.

So, on the subject of clarity, I'm all for silk. It's what makes the stone glow, these tiny microscopic inclusions that obstruct the light's path and divert it so it bounces around under unexpected angles.

I've noticed this with my sapphires. If the crystal is clear and perfectly transparent, it has the potential to be very sparkly, true. But with the movement comes a drawback - rays of light enter the stone and, instead of reflecting back through the crown, escape to the side through some facet or another. And in this case the material looks black because the light is just gone. Head on the colour may be majestic and spectacular, but turn the stone to the side and you're simply not seeing that same colour anymore.

I suspect this is why I find it hard to fall in love with sapphires, it needs light in a very specific way to light up.
This magnificent pair of sapphires at Christie’s (guide price USD 200-320k) wouldn’t light up on the ear!

So, where does that leave you? Considering you're okay with heat, and you naturally gravitate towards the glowy look of more included stones, I would venture a guess that the perfect stone for you would be that exact ruby you started this thread about, if only someone could stick the pointy end of a cocktail umbrella in it as if it was a tiny cauldron and mix the silk from one half into the other.

This is not the one for you. It's beautiful, and the half veiled - half clear look is unique and one of a kind. But you don't see that uniqueness as a positive quality, as something to be admired, it actually bothers you. In your eyes, the stone has a bad side that looks like a garnet.

However, if I'm incorrect in my interpretation and the unique clarity characteristics don't bother you, then I would say the colour really is a banger.

Hehe a pointy end of a magic cocktail swizzler would be nice!

I love unique stones in general and now that you’ve described it as such, I’m liking the stone more haha!

To be honest, I think my issue is that I simply haven’t seen enough rubies for me to know whether this is the one for me. In real life, the half/half look is not obvious to my untrained eyes and is only something I noticed afterwards whilst studying my pics.

The window is not necessarily a problem. We dislike windows because in darker toned stones they make the middle look black and lifeless, and in lighter tones stones it makes it look colourless and lifeless. But with a highly saturated stone that has just the right amount of silk to scatter the light inside, you don't really get these annoying drawbacks of windowing. Sure, you'll miss the flashes of light reflecting off of facets, but the colour will be there. So a windowed ruby has better chances of being tolerable compared to a windowed yellow sapphire, for example.

Thank you for explaining this so clearly, and it’s why @Bron357 ’s pancake ruby can look so good!

For me, I (maybe incorrectly?) inferred the window to be the reason why the stone goes dark. To be fair, it’s not as dark as this pic in real life, but I also don’t know if I’m being unrealistic in my expectations based on what I’m prepared to pay (!)

The other thing is, the ruby has beautiful flashes on the outer rim but few under the table.

When it comes to fluorescence, even though in my humble opinion fluorescence maketh ruby, pure red doesn't agree with it. Fluorescence just gives the stone a pinkish tint, even if it's more red in the shade. Now, I like pink, and I believe there's little point to buying ruby if you don't get to watch it light up in the sun, so this whole arrangement works for me. But if you're firm on the as pure as possible red, then the lack of fluorescence or weak fluorescence wouldn't necessarily be a drawback.

Very interesting trade-off, thank you!

Having noodled on it some more, I actually think having a pure red is a mind-clean thing for me as I probably won’t be able to tell when I’m wearing a ring, but my brain likes the thought of a red-red ruby…

 

[Pomelo]

@voce thank you so much for chiming in! And what a pleasure it is to see your beautiful gems.

Outdoors, UV (hence fluorescence or glow) exposure really varies with the latitude, so I would think that fluorescence matters less in natural light in Beijing in the wintertime compared to Singapore or Shenzhen. Since moving to Canada from California, I've found myself not reaching for silky gems and going for sparkle instead, as the weather is not sunny that often.

I have read about this phenomenon but didn’t realise that in practice, silky fluorescent gems “underperform” and sparkly gems “outperform” with lower UV. How interesting that you reach for different gems now that you’re in Canada!

Based on this, what isn’t helpful for my search is that Beijing is short term, then we’ll move to the Middle East, and then possibly back to London haha.

Another suggestion, unless you're considering a ruby as an "investment", is expanding your search to include red spinels. One of my most beautiful red gems is actually a spinel. You can usually find a better cut in a spinel and a better balance of a pure red color with silk.

Gems are not monetary investments for me (unless you count it ans investment in sheer joy haha!), and I definitely need to do “red” proper justice by seeing as much as I can!

For a trip down memory lane, this was my ruby engagement ring when the light shone through my office window in California. I won't get anything like this in Canada.

Wow that colour!
Out of interest, does that mean in Canada the colour is more muted / lower saturation?

 

[voce]

@voce thank you so much for chiming in! And what a pleasure it is to see your beautiful gems.


I have read about this phenomenon but didn’t realise that in practice, silky fluorescent gems “underperform” and sparkly gems “outperform” with lower UV. How interesting that you reach for different gems now that you’re in Canada!

Based on this, what isn’t helpful for my search is that Beijing is short term, then we’ll move to the Middle East, and then possibly back to London haha.


Gems are not monetary investments for me (unless you count it ans investment in sheer joy haha!), and I definitely need to do “red” proper justice by seeing as much as I can!



Wow that colour!
Out of interest, does that mean in Canada the colour is more muted / lower saturation?

In Canada, there's less bright glow, the saturation imo is a quality of the gem and isn't something that changes, but the color the eye will see will be darker than lower latitude because there is less natural light intensity from the sun. My thoughts are that the same gem will look brighter/livelier in the middle east, more muted in northern climes like London. So, my thoughts are that you should try to judge outdoor color with higher standards when you're in Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand, Sri Lanka, middle east, etc. Also, if you're looking for a pure red with some glow, it's more practical to look at African rubies with the right saturation and of moderate fluorescence. My redder rubies are from Tanzania and Mozambique, not Burma. Many rubies from Burma look and photograph pinker due to high fluorescence, which makes them less of a pure red look.

I don't know if the same sellers will carry red spinels too? Worth a shot if you're looking for the perfect red, and not just an unheated ruby. I think you could maybe ask for 红尖晶石 instead of or in addition to 红宝石. Heating doesn't really improve spinels, so spinels are usually untreated if natural, but I've seen clarity enhancements like filling in chips and cracks.

The examples of blue sapphires that you showed are oversaturated and cut too large in my opinion to optimize their beauty. In general the larger the gem the deeper it's cut off we are to avoid windows, but if a gem is too deep it's harder for light to reflect back up to the table of the gem and make it into your eyes, unless it has been precision cut. My personal favorite is the concave cut, which is difficult to find. If you're looking for large blue sapphire, it's best to go for more modern precision cuts. You can find good examples of better-cut blue sapphire at the Precision Gem and Finewater Gem websites.

 

[voce]

^ Nice to hear your voce, @voce!

just here to live vicariously and see other people's pretties. Now that I'm in another country with different priorities I haven't yet figured out when or how I would set the gems that are already arranged in my gem trays. Logistically it's not as easy to get my mail from my US PO box a long drive away.

 

[Pomelo]

So, my thoughts are that you should try to judge outdoor color with higher standards when you're in Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand, Sri Lanka, middle east, etc. Also, if you're looking for a pure red with some glow, it's more practical to look at African rubies with the right saturation and of moderate fluorescence. My redder rubies are from Tanzania and Mozambique, not Burma. Many rubies from Burma look and photograph pinker due to high fluorescence, which makes them less of a pure red look.

That’s good advice, thank you. I went to a local gem centre today (I’m setting some loose stones) and happened to notice some loose rubies. I don’t think any of them were particularly fine, but interestingly I saw an Afghan ruby! From what I’ve read, they tend to be highly included and this was no exception

I don't know if the same sellers will carry red spinels too? Worth a shot if you're looking for the perfect red, and not just an unheated ruby. I think you could maybe ask for 红尖晶石 instead of or in addition to 红宝石.

Ooh do you speak Chinese?

Spinels have great colour but I haven’t found a silky one yet. I should really search PS for a silky spinel to know what to expect!

If you're looking for large blue sapphire, it's best to go for more modern precision cuts.

Hehe I’m not looking for a blue sapphire (yet…), these were at Christie’s auction viewing and I happened to try them on.

 

[Avondale]

I suspect this is why I find it hard to fall in love with sapphires, it needs light in a very specific way to light up.

The thing with sapphires is we're generally a lot more lenient when it comes to the blue colour. Lighter blue, darker blue, less saturated blue, pastel blue, they all get recognition and love. Rubies, on the other hand? Has to be top saturation, has to be perfect red, has to be this, has to be that...

If you're trying to find a blue sapphire that ticks all the boxes for "perfect", you're gonna struggle in a very similar way to trying to find a ruby. Only, because "blue sapphires are everywhere", at least it won't cost you a house and a kidney. I've been ogling blue sapphires everywhere I get a chance for years. The truly fine ones, with top saturation perfectly balanced with body tone, the ones that light up in any light, are few and far between.

If rubies were held to the same standard and we were showering the less saturated, the purplish and the brownish ones with equal love, I imagine many people would find it hard to fall in love with the average ruby as well.

This magnificent pair of sapphires at Christie’s (guide price USD 200-320k) wouldn’t light up on the ear!

Yeah, because they're just dark. When a ruby is this dark, few care to look at it.

For me, I (maybe incorrectly?) inferred the window to be the reason why the stone goes dark. To be fair, it’s not as dark as this pic in real life, but I also don’t know if I’m being unrealistic in my expectations based on what I’m prepared to pay (!)

The other thing is, the ruby has beautiful flashes on the outer rim but few under the table.

To be honest, at some point it becomes irrelevant why the stone goes dark. Whatever the reason, it's a permanent attribute, not something you can change. The important thing is the stone goes dark, and you don't like that.

Also, if you love and want to have the flashes, cut becomes a higher priority for you. A pancake ruby won't scratch that itch, no matter how beautiful it is in every other aspect.

Having noodled on it some more, I actually think having a pure red is a mind-clean thing for me as I probably won’t be able to tell when I’m wearing a ring, but my brain likes the thought of a red-red ruby…

Here's a question, though: why?

Is it because your eyes instinctively move in the direction of the red-red stones, and you can feel the fluttering desire to own them?

If not, is it because red-red is what is considered high quality and you're after the highest perceived quality?

If it's the first, I wouldn't call it a mind-clean thing, exactly, but just your natural preference. If the second, though, you should definitely take more time to look at more stones so that you can find your natural preference. You're planning to spend a decent chunk of money on this purchase, and when you do, you should get to feel like your ruby is the fairest of them all.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

@Pomelo

Will this do?

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[voce]

Can you spot the sleepy spinels here?

1. Pink oval silky/sleepy spinel flanked by gray spinels @lower right of left gem tray
2. Pink pear silky/sleepy spinel surrounded by yellow sapphires @upper left of right gem tray
3. Red sleepy spinel below white and blue sapphire and to the right of yellow chrysoberyl @center lower right of right gem that
4. Red sleepy spinel that's a wonky shape @upper right of left gem tray

All other red/pink/purple gems there are spinels, just not sleepy. Although silky/sleepy glows in the sun, in normal room lighting they look rather flat, which is the same problem you have for star rubies, star sapphires.

P.S. the concave cut on the spess garnet makes it look lit up in any light setting that is not total darkness! My oh my do I love a concave cut on a beautiful gem.

 

[Pomelo]

The thing with sapphires is we're generally a lot more lenient when it comes to the blue colour. Lighter blue, darker blue, less saturated blue, pastel blue, they all get recognition and love. Rubies, on the other hand? Has to be top saturation, has to be perfect red, has to be this, has to be that...

This is so true! I wonder why we tend to be more lenient of sapphires? Is it because they don’t tend to show secondary colours but rather a lighter / darker tone?

Also, if you love and want to have the flashes, cut becomes a higher priority for you. A pancake ruby won't scratch that itch, no matter how beautiful it is in every other aspect.

That’s a good point, thank you.

I’ve seen a few well cut stones with flashes but they don’t make me excited, probably because the colour wasn’t quite there.

If only I could get out your magic cocktail swizzler again…!

Here's a question, though: why?

Is it because your eyes instinctively move in the direction of the red-red stones, and you can feel the fluttering desire to own them?

If not, is it because red-red is what is considered high quality and you're after the highest perceived quality?

It’s funny, I’m not normally colour sensitive at all but with red, I scrutinise the colour more than any other hue.

At first glance, lots of stones look red but my natural instinct is to get really close and see if it has a bit of purple or brown in it, and then I’m turned off when it does
(To be fair, I think I would be okay with a little orange for a fire engine red but I haven’t really seen this yet)

 

[Pomelo]

@Pomelo

Will this do?

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Well, I wouldn’t kick it out of bed…!

(but it does look quite included though)

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Well, I wouldn’t kick it out of bed…!

(but it does look quite included though)

Have you scoured the natural sapphire company website as well? It’s awesome for just browsing to look see.

 

[Pomelo]

All other red/pink/purple gems there are spinels, just not sleepy. Although silky/sleepy glows in the sun, in normal room lighting they look rather flat, which is the same problem you have for star rubies, star sapphires.

This is a great point and probably why I really liked the original ruby (2.0ct, red-red “half n half”) - it just seemed to do well both indoors and outdoors, except for the part under the table.

And this is possibly why I struggle with stars! I saw this star sapphire that I feel like I should enjoy but it frustrated me that the star was only viewable in certain conditions.

This pic also reminds me that phone cameras love blue. These sapphires did not look this good!

P.S. the concave cut on the spess garnet makes it look lit up in any light setting that is not total darkness! My oh my do I love a concave cut on a beautiful gem

Thank you for sharing these photos! Interestingly my eyes were drawn to the non-sleepy spinel.

Ooh that spess must be so fun to play with!

 

[Pomelo]

Have you scoured the natural sapphire company website as well? It’s awesome for just browsing to look see.

I’ll have a look-see!

But tbh I’m not going to buy a ruby (or red spinel) online. It’s good to get a sense of pricing but I find colour so difficult to gauge via a screen l, and especially when my eyes are picky about red, it’s something I’d need to see in the flesh!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Can you spot the sleepy spinels here?

1. Pink oval silky/sleepy spinel flanked by gray spinels @lower right of left gem tray
2. Pink pear silky/sleepy spinel surrounded by yellow sapphires @upper left of right gem tray
3. Red sleepy spinel below white and blue sapphire and to the right of yellow chrysoberyl @center lower right of right gem that
4. Red sleepy spinel that's a wonky shape @upper right of left gem tray

All other red/pink/purple gems there are spinels, just not sleepy. Although silky/sleepy glows in the sun, in normal room lighting they look rather flat, which is the same problem you have for star rubies, star sapphires.

P.S. the concave cut on the spess garnet makes it look lit up in any light setting that is not total darkness! My oh my do I love a concave cut on a beautiful gem.

Girl, you create the most fabulous and unexpected color combos ever... I aspire to be you when I grow up!

 

[voce]

Girl, you create the most fabulous and unexpected color combos ever... I aspire to be you when I grow up!

Um... That makes me feel... Like an adult, I guess? In the past I would have just said thank you, but now I feel like I don't deserve that kind of compliment. I've recently learned from a stylist on social media to take color inspiration from paintings and natural color pairings from nature. All of the colors in gems come from nature, and art imitates life/nature. Any fabulous color combos in jewelry is just imitating or paying homage to the natural world.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Um... That makes me feel... Like an adult, I guess? In the past I would have just said thank you, but now I feel like I don't deserve that kind of compliment. I've recently learned from a stylist on social media to take color inspiration from paintings and natural color pairings from nature. All of the colors in gems come from nature, and art imitates life/nature. Any fabulous color combos in jewelry is just imitating or paying homage to the natural world.

I sort of feel the same way... we're just playing with nature's awesome palette. But interpretation is still a talent, and you have it!

P.S. I'm probably older than you. lol

 

[Pomelo]

Hello friends, this ruby is not for me but in the spirit of furthering my ruby education, I wanted to see if I've missed anything?

It looks very reasonably priced for Burmese GIA heat (minor residue) ruby at $3,700/ct (1.75ct total = $6,475), the colour is good and it's got a hint of silk without being sleepy. The native cut is good without obvious windowing.

Would it go dark at the edges, as per the GIA photo? It's not noticeable in the videos.

Link here with videos: https://thenaturalrubycompany.com/rubies/1.75ct-burma-myanmar-heart-ruby-r13755/

Thanks!

 

[Rfisher]

Would it go dark at the edges, as per the GIA photo? It's not noticeable in the videos.

Thanks!

My opinion
The video on the hand has facet reflections that go opaque bright white.
More direct /stronger lighting
The GIA photo has those facet reflections but they are much less opaque white -less direct less strong lighting.

 

[Pomelo]

My opinion
The video on the hand has facet reflections that go opaque bright white.
More direct /stronger lighting
The GIA photo has those facet reflections but they are much less opaque white -less direct less strong lighting.

Ah okay, so it means the stone is darker in real life than in the videos. Thank you!

 

[Rfisher]

Ah okay, so it means the stone is darker in real life than in the videos. Thank you!

I wouldn’t say darker in real life, but would say it is lighting dependent.

 

[Dreamer_D]

The color looks great in the NSC pics and videos. Do we have a concensus about the general accuracy of their pics and vids?

 

[voce]

My engagement ring was originally from NSC. Colour wise, I would trust their pictures. However, I wouldn't trust them for matched stones, as I remember the stories of their use of Photoshop to make star sapphire pairs look perfectly matched.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

My bestie’s padparadscha is from NSC and it’s beautiful. Exactly like the videos.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Hmm I don't know... the color looks pretty darn good to me. But the heat coupled with some flux healing is definitely causing it to be more affordable. I also despise the shape of that particular heart (but I have a thing about that).

 

[Autumn in New England]

The color looks great in the NSC pics and videos. Do we have a concensus about the general accuracy of their pics and vids?

I agree with mellow and voce... I own 4 stones (well, 2 stones and 1 pair of stones) from NSC. I also had another (pad), but sold it. The photos and description were very representative. I mean, they're there to sell the stone, but quite accurate.

 

[Autumn in New England]

@Pomelo When you do get ready to buy (and I think you're doing exactly the right thing by first acquainting yourself with what you like and don't like), consider giving Inken a holler. She's had a few spectacular hearts.