Plssss help!! Need expert help on this RB

[joman]

Hello everyone,

What you guys think about this stone?

Measurements 6.85 - 6.88 x 4.28 mm
Carat Weight 1.23 carat
Color Grade G
Clarity Grade VS2
Cut Grade Excellent
Depth 62.3 %
Table 56 %
Crown Angle 36.0°
Crown Height 16.0%
Pavilion Angle 40.8°
Pavilion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Thin to Medium, Faceted, 3.0%
Culet None
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent

So here is the problem – I am buying online so flying blind here without seeing the picture of the actual stone. Punched the numbers in and get 3.6 hca so I am kinda concerned about the light performance here but the guy is certain that this is a good one…

Is there any reason why you would reject the stone? Cost about $10.5K.

 

[Andelain]

Steep crown may cause less light return and also spread for weight. I'd keep looking.

 

[RockyRacoon]

Here's a stone VERY close in size to the stone you picked, except with a better clarity and guaranteed top-notch cut.

This stone is also about $1k less expensive (after Pricescope discount)!

BG Blues don't stick around long in this size/price point. Someone is going to snatch this up soon, so I hope it can be you.

1.183ct, G, VS1
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.183-g-vs1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104067973050


If that stone has already sold, check out this one:

1.23ct, G, SI2 (talk to Wink about how eye-clean it is)
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity-new&id=1131


Don't buy blind - that is not the way to purchase online diamonds, unless you have years of knowledge. Work with a respected vendor who can give you details about a particular stone, and you'll be much happier with the final product.

 

[joman]

Thanks Racoon for the suggestion…actually the stone is slightly under my budget ($12K) so I think I’ll keep looking for now~

Your suggestion does bring out a question – the experience ones on PS seem to rave about BG blue’s value. Is it really that good of the deal? I understand that for color lower than I, the fluor will help the stone appear whiter but I am looking for stones G or better, you think the BG blue line still offers the value? And would the strong fluor make G or better stone milky? This is just something I wouldn’t compromise on….

 

[RockyRacoon]

Thanks Racoon for the suggestion…actually the stone is slightly under my budget ($12K) so I think I’ll keep looking for now~

Your suggestion does bring out a question – the experience ones on PS seem to rave about BG blue’s value. Is it really that good of the deal? I understand that for color lower than I, the fluor will help the stone appear whiter but I am looking for stones G or better, you think the BG blue line still offers the value? And would the strong fluor make G or better stone milky? This is just something I wouldn’t compromise on….

I look for fluorescence in all of the stones I purchase. This includes D,E,F.

The effect of fluor is very cool, and does give a stone more character.

You need to have any stone with fluor vetted by an expert to ensure no milky/haziness. The effect is VERY rare, but will occasionally occur, so it's always worthwhile to check.

The good thing about the BG Blue stones is that they've already been vetted to have NO negative effects from fluor. You don't even have to ask about milky/hazy with these stones, as they have already been assessed.

Stones with fluor sell at a slight discount, so if you can buy one from a reputable dealer, you are going to be able to get more stone for your money. Regardless of how awesome the effect of fluor is, the effect of getting a larger/better stone for the same $ is undeniable.

 

[joman]

 

[joman]

That is good to hear! Obviously the stone is going to glow blue with strong fluor under UV light but not too worried about that since how often we go under total UV light, right?

How about sunlight under regular condition (we live in sunny cali)? I’ve seen a youtube clip from GOG (I think, can’t find it right now) comparing diamonds with/without strong fluor under sunlight…but would love to hear from your personal experience!

 

[RockyRacoon]

That is good to hear! Obviously the stone is going to glow blue with strong fluor under UV light but not too worried about that since how often we go under total UV light, right?

How about sunlight under regular condition (we live in sunny cali)? I’ve seen a youtube clip from GOG (I think, can’t find it right now) comparing diamonds with/without strong fluor under sunlight…but would love to hear from your personal experience!

I live in California (LA), as well, so I can relate about the sunny conditions!

I bought my wife-to-be an H-colored stone with Strong Blue fluor, for a pendant. The stone doesn't show much effect from the fluor, even in sunny conditions. It does seem to give the stone a very slight glow, which I find appealing. FYI - this particular stone was a BG Blue.

The only time I've seen a pronounced effect is when we went to a nightclub that had blacklights. Her stone lit up and many people came up during the night to ask her about it, as most folks have no clue about fluorescence. Great conversation starter and it made the pendant even more unique!

 

[joman]

Not as sunny here in SF hahaha

I can imagine going to clubs is pretty much the only time a strong blue fluor stone will literally light up. How about the slight glow you mentioned in sunny days? I don’t recall seeing that in all those youtube videos I’ve searched about fluor...does it have any impact on the sparkle? I can picture my gf is mostly concerned about the sparkle out of so many things.

 

[RockyRacoon]

Not as sunny here in SF hahaha

I can imagine going to clubs is pretty much the only time a strong blue fluor stone will literally light up. How about the slight glow you mentioned in sunny days? I don’t recall seeing that in all those youtube videos I’ve searched about fluor...does it have any impact on the sparkle? I can picture my gf is mostly concerned about the sparkle out of so many things.

SF is probably sunnier today! Our streak of 70s/80s for the past month is about to be disrupted by rain.

Speaking to the fluor - it doesn't affect the 'sparkle' in any way.

The slight glow I was speaking of is very subtle and you would only notice it if you were looking for it. It really is very minimal.

Just a thought - if you want to see some fluor vs non-fluor stones in person, set up an appointment with Brilliant Earth in SF. They are very expensive for stones (sell largely on 'ethical' foundation), but they can pull a variety and set-up an appointment for you to inspect. That way, you'd be able to compare fluor vs. non-fluor stones side-by-side, in-person.

 

[joman]

We not only get some rain (finally), we get multiple storms one after another today!!! but hey, can’t complain about anything compared to east coast man!

Just yelped the place – looks fancy like tiffany. Worth a visit to check things out.

So if the fluor doesn’t have any impact to the performance of a stone to the extent that it’s of a whiter color, why do the strong blue ones have lower price than others except for psychological notion that the stone is not “perfect” and the fact that the stone light up under black light? The fluor must somehow affect the performance negatively , right?

 

[Gypsy]

I live in the bay area.

The best jeweler in the area that I've found (and that's after 7 years of searching) is Joe Escobar in Campbell. Ask for Erik or Mia and make an appointment, they know about Pricescope and are EXCELLENT jewelers plus their setting selection is amazing.

By far the best time spent in shopping for rings out here is a trip to see them.

 

[Clairitek]

I live in the bay area.

The best jeweler in the area is Joe Escobar in Campbell. Ask for Erik or Mia and make an appointment, they know about pricescope and are EXCELLENT jewelers plus their setting selection is amazing.

By far the best time spent in shopping for rings out here is a trip to see them.

I've visited Joe Escobar a number of times (once or twice with Gypsy, in fact) and I love it there. If I were to buy from a B&M it would most certainly be this one. And heed the advice on Erik and Mia- they're wonderful!

 

[Gypsy]

I live in the bay area.

The best jeweler in the area is Joe Escobar in Campbell. Ask for Erik or Mia and make an appointment, they know about pricescope and are EXCELLENT jewelers plus their setting selection is amazing.

By far the best time spent in shopping for rings out here is a trip to see them.

I've visited Joe Escobar a number of times (once or twice with Gypsy, in fact) and I love it there. If I were to buy from a B&M it would most certainly be this one. And heed the advice on Erik and Mia- they're wonderful!

Yes, Claire is has a great eye for jewelry. And a LOT of pricescopers go to Joe Escobar.



Joman, please read the below.

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is. And you need a reliable lab report which means GIA or AGS only.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And with MODERN ROUND BRILLIANTS GIA Ex is not enough.
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut (for round brilliants)
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone. For round brilliants that's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. James Allen, BGD, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool' for round brilliants. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA round brilliant you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 modern round brilliant stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

Now fancies (anything other than a modern round brilliant) are very different than rounds. Then you are talking faceting and light return only. And that's much harder. An ASET image can help you with that for fancies: http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_ASET_scope.asp As it evaluates light performance by TYPE of light. And the the experienced posters on this board can help teach you about whatever fancy shape it is that you are looking for.
Or, in the case of Princesses and cushions: you can short cut and get an ASG0 cushion or princess. They are RARE though, but we can direct you to vendors that carry them.
With other shapes... you are back to the time consuming method of searching out stones on an individual basis, which means pictures, videos, and ASET images.


I hope you enjoy your time here on Pricescope. We love newbies and helping them learn. So if you ever need something explained to you... just let us know and we'll be happy to help!

 

[joman]

WOW – so many bay area folks on here!

Escobar not far from me at all since I work in south bay. Prob need to pull a “sorry honey, need to stay late at work” night to go check it out soon!

With that said, still think I would buy the ring online to save the taxes though…the sales tax is nuts!

 

[joman]

Great read Gypsy!! I’ve been lurking around for like 6 months and learned a great deal from all of you. This is my own process when I do my search (obviously the amateur way…)
1. Set my criteria and look for ones that has great symmetry facing up (somehow symmetry is important to me even though gf might not even notice)
2. Use HCA to reject ones with higher than 2.0 score (by this step, majority of my choices are rejected)
3. I personally avoid inclusions under the table (some more choices are gone)
4. I then ask for idealscope from venders
I’ve been repeating this for 6 months and still couldn’t find the one I like…sigh…
Is there anything wrong with my approach? I really wanna know since time is running out here...

 

[Gypsy]

What was wrong with these diamonds rocky found for you?


1.183ct, G, VS1
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.183-g-vs1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104067973050


If that stone has already sold, check out this one:

1.23ct, G, SI2 (talk to Wink about how eye-clean it is)
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity-new&id=1131


Inclusions under the table are okay especially in a VS stone. But even in an SI1.

 

[WinkHPD]

We not only get some rain (finally), we get multiple storms one after another today!!! but hey, can’t complain about anything compared to east coast man!

Just yelped the place – looks fancy like tiffany. Worth a visit to check things out.

So if the fluor doesn’t have any impact to the performance of a stone to the extent that it’s of a whiter color, why do the strong blue ones have lower price than others except for psychological notion that the stone is not “perfect” and the fact that the stone light up under black light? The fluor must somehow affect the performance negatively , right?

GIA did a study on this and found that it affected performance in less than 1% of the strong blue fluorescent stones that they looked at.

A lot of the "negativity" is a hold over from back in the crazy days of the late 1970's when there was a diamond investment silliness where people who had been selling ladies shoes last week were working in telephone sweat shops talking people into buying diamonds as an investment. They could not tell if fluorescence was a good thing or a bad thing, so the powers of the time decided that rather than look at stones they would just discount any document that said fluorescent on it.

Prior to that time I actually paid a 10 to 15% premium for SB fluorescent diamonds which were treasured for having that light powdery blue glow out of doors.

It was once popular, then made unpopular by the mass stupidity of the public buying a product they new nothing about as an investment. I still see the occasional hoard of grandpa's investment diamonds when the estate is probated. Funny, with all the price increases over the years, I have yet to see one of the investments even break even yet. The sellers knew nothing about what they were selling and the buyers even less and the sold at horrific premiums to reality.

My hope is that someday people will once again treasure these incredible diamonds for what they are, MAGNIFICENT!

I believe this link will take you to the GIA study article that John Pollard brought to us some years ago.

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence/

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Nope that was a good article but not the one I was looking for. I tried to follow the link I have for it and can no longer find the report on the GIA site. Perhaps someone else can dig it up.

Wink

 

[hawk25]

Nope that was a good article but not the one I was looking for. I tried to follow the link I have for it and can no longer find the report on the GIA site. Perhaps someone else can dig it up.

Wink

Perhaps this was the article you were looking for?

http://www.gia.edu/doi/10_5741-GEMS_33_4_244
(Click download PDF)

 

[joman]

oooh nothing wrong with rocky's recommendations. just that i hope to get something even nicer for my special one with my $12k budget...

hey! supposedly i only need to splash once in my life, might as well right??

 

[joman]

hey wink - thanks for explanation! yeah..i found that paper when i was researching about fluor (granted i only read a few pages coz it was toooo technical for newbie like me) but i found it mind boggling that diamond with strong fluor is priced lower today due to some misunderstanding some 50 years ago...


anddddd...and now i remember my gf once said that she doens't mind a little fluor as she finds it special if the diamond glows under the sun...hey...maybe another break on my wallet to find a bigger one!!!

 

[Gypsy]

OK so, in order of preference. Short list:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3045749.htm
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.228-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-104064813017
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3045747.htm
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.208-g-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104064813013


YOU DO NOT RUN HCA ON AGS0!!! Got that? Read below for explanation:

In Context

Just imagine that you're trying to get to know someone's looks and personality...

An HCA score is merely like having a chalk outline of the person.
Grading report numbers are like having the person's height, weight and clothing measurements.
An ASET or Ideal-Scope (for RB) image is like having a still photo of the person.
An AGS Platinum "0" in performance is like a panel of judges confirming that the person's personality and looks are solid.
A 3D scan in sophisticated cut-calculation software is like having a video interview with the person.

Eventually, it's a lot of great information. All told it's enough for an experienced cut-specialist to make very detailed performance predictions. But in the end, a live date (dinner & a movie?) will be how you finally judge total personality and looks as you, individually, perceive them.
.

 

[Gypsy]

What I'd buy:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11615/ 12k exactly. F color. Eyeclean (confirm, but I suspect so). Medium Fluorescence. And 1.4 carats.

VERY special stone for a very special lady.

 

[OCgirl]

I am a BGD Blue owner. And my engagement ring is exactly the same size range and color you're considering. I have a 1.22 ct G color with medium blue fluor. I also live in Southern California. I've had my ring for over three years now. Honestly I don't see the fluor at all. I do see the "appears whiter than G" effect from time to time when it's under indirect sunlight (which is super awesome). The only two times I saw my ring went "blue" is when I was at the science museum (this one exhibit had black light) and Disneyland (this one ride had black light). And that was pretty much it. I actually WANT to see the cool effect but you just don't go to that many places with black lights (or at least I don't). The cut is amazing on these AGS000s. Recently I had someone commented that, "your ring is just too blinding"... I took it as a compliment That's the whole point of having a diamond?

 

[joman]

heyyyy gypsy!!! the first one in WF you posted on your list:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3045749.htm

i have been looking at this one for a while. like everything except for one thing - if you look at the 5 o'clock in the idealscope, does that white area concern you? obviously its leakage and with my budget, i shouldnt be complaining like i am billionaire...but still, should i be worried about this cos i am?

and the GOG one:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11615/

everything looks great but like you said, i wonder if that is eyeclean...and also the broken arrow in the aset...will one see it with naked eyes?

i am sorry if i am being anal about things...i am infamous of being observant and too obsessive with details at times...prob thats why i havent bought anything after 6 months...

 

[joman]

hey ocgirl! thanks for your inputs as well...used to date a girl in OC as well LOL~!!

guess you were the lucky one coz just did a search on BG, didn't find anything that fit my bill in the blue line...will def keep searching tho. btw, i am going to disneyland in april

i agree the more i look into the blue line, the more it sounds like its such a value that i regret not looking into it earlier. hopefully i would be as lucky as you!!

 

[Gypsy]

heyyyy gypsy!!! the first one in WF you posted on your list:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3045749.htm

i have been looking at this one for a while. like everything except for one thing - if you look at the 5 o'clock in the idealscope, does that white area concern you? obviously its leakage and with my budget, i shouldnt be complaining like i am billionaire...but still, should i be worried about this cos i am?
Stone is probably tilted in the IS, ask the sales person about it. I think it's fine though.
and the GOG one:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11615/

everything looks great but like you said, i wonder if that is eyeclean...and also the broken arrow in the aset...will one see it with naked eyes?
GOG would be able to tell you if it is eyeclean, and they will be honest with you. As for the ASET. No, I don't think so. You will see what you see in the idealscope.

i am sorry if i am being anal about things...i am infamous of being observant and too obsessive with details at times...prob thats why i havent bought anything after 6 months...

I think you should pull the trigger on one of these two. Whichever is more "mindclean" for you after you talk to both vendors.


Then just have it shipped to you unset. That way you can examine it to your hearts content.

It's time to pull the trigger or put the gun away. Just go for it. WORST thing that happens is you are 40 bucks return shipping. Okay?

 

[joman]

YES SIR! RIGHT AWAY SIR!

That is probably what I need – I need someone like gypsy to kick me in butt a little to make a decision. I know I am overanalyzing things.

Btw, a silly question - how does it work if I have the stone shipped unset? Do I send it back for them to set it afterwards or find someone in the bay to do it? which one make more economical sense? Gf wants simple tiffany solitaire style…tried to push her into liking the pave set one cos it looks nicer for me…but oh well…

 

[Andelain]

YES SIR! RIGHT AWAY SIR!

That is probably what I need – I need someone like gypsy to kick me in butt a little to make a decision. I know I am overanalyzing things.

Btw, a silly question - how does it work if I have the stone shipped unset? Do I send it back for them to set it afterwards or find someone in the bay to do it? which one make more economical sense? Gf wants simple tiffany solitaire style…tried to push her into liking the pave set one cos it looks nicer for me…but oh well…

Get the seller to set it. A lot less hassle, no risk of the stone getting broken, lost, etc. Plus, you'll get great pics of the finished ring to post here.