Pls comment on the cut quality

[Dizzie]

Dear Pricescopers,

Again I am helping a friend of ours to look for a stone. It will be a RHR, not an engagement ring, thus she consideres J I1 stone for this project, however it should be eye-clean and not pose any durability issues.

Could you please comment on the quality of the cut on this stone. It scores 1.5 on HCA. Would it be right to expect a decent amount of fire with such cut?

Vendor claims the stone to be eye clean. Well, I would not know until we evaluate this in person. But would it be correct to presume that the feathers should not be a huge durability issue, as all of them are marked as not reaching the surface?

Thanks

 

[proto]

is it gia is my first question

 

[Dizzie]

It is not actually, it is IGI. Though their grading on loose stones is for sure less strict than GIA, but I do hope that they get the dimensions and angles right

 

[Texas Leaguer]

It might be ok from a cutting standpoint, although you would need more information to know. But that might be a moot point considering the I1 clarity.
Also, what indication do you have that none of the feathers break the surface?

 

[Dizzie]

It might be ok from a cutting standpoint, although you would need more information to know. But that might be a moot point considering the I1 clarity.
Also, what indication do you have that none of the feathers break the surface?

Thanks for your answer, TL

It was solemy based on the fact that all the symbols on the plot were red, while IGI states to plot the surface reaching inclusions green. Am I wrong here?

Also, may I ask some trade member to comment on the quality of the IGI loose stone grading.
Here in Europe, I hardly ever see GIA certed stone. Vast majority is IGI, some HRD and a lot DPL

 

[Gypsy]

An IGI lab graded I clarity it stone?

RUN. Don't walk, away!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Not sure about IGI clarity grading particulars, but feathers are any break in the stone. They usually come to the surface, but it is possible that a feather is "healed". AGS and GIA plot the feather where it comes to the surface.

IGI is known for grading in programs for large retailers. Therefore the qualities tend to be of more commercial quality, such as the stone you are considering.

GIA and HRD graded diamonds are quite popular in Europe and you should not have trouble accessing them. AGS is not as well known in Europe and is a specialty lab anyway, focused on grading diamonds of the finest cut quality.

 

[Dizzie]

It might be ok from a cutting standpoint, although you would need more information to know. But that might be a moot point considering the I1 clarity.
Also, what indication do you have that none of the feathers break the surface?

Texas Leaguer, what would be the additional information necessary to understand the cut better? Idealscope pictures?

Besides, I think, I get the major message to stay away of this stone. I was just being hopeful (a bit) as finding a well cut stone in Europe is hardly possible (except for CBI) and my friend is vary of importing something as expensive from overseas

Unfortunaly majority of well cut stones never make to this market, as it is pretty small

 

[Dizzie]

[quote="Texas Leaguer|1403905397|3702363 GIA and HRD graded diamonds are quite popular in Europe and you should not have trouble accessing them. AGS is not as well known in Ewurope and is a specialty lab anyway, focused on grading diamonds of the finest cut quality.[/quote]

Thank you for the explanation on feathers. It is very helpful indeed.

Gypsy - laugh, that was a quick reaction

 

[Rockdiamond]

Not sure about IGI clarity grading particulars, but feathers are any break in the stone. They usually come to the surface, but it is possible that a feather is "healed". AGS and GIA plot the feather where it comes to the surface.

IGI is known for grading in programs for large retailers. Therefore the qualities tend to be of more commercial quality, such as the stone you are considering.

GIA and HRD graded diamonds are quite popular in Europe and you should not have trouble accessing them. AGS is not as well known in Europe and is a specialty lab anyway, focused on grading diamonds of the finest cut quality.

Hi Bryan,
Just trying to clarify your answer....
Unless I read it wrong, it seems you are implying that ALL feathers must be near the surface of a diamond
My experience is that many feathers may be deep inside the diamond, not coming close to the surface at all.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Not sure about IGI clarity grading particulars, but feathers are any break in the stone. They usually come to the surface, but it is possible that a feather is "healed". AGS and GIA plot the feather where it comes to the surface.

IGI is known for grading in programs for large retailers. Therefore the qualities tend to be of more commercial quality, such as the stone you are considering.

GIA and HRD graded diamonds are quite popular in Europe and you should not have trouble accessing them. AGS is not as well known in Europe and is a specialty lab anyway, focused on grading diamonds of the finest cut quality.

Hi Bryan,
Just trying to clarify your answer....
Unless I read it wrong, it seems you are implying that ALL feathers must be near the surface of a diamond
My experience is that many feathers may be deep inside the diamond, not coming close to the surface at all.

If you re-read my statement I said they usually come to the surface. That has been my experience.

Also, I just realized that the OP mentioned that the reason it was assumed that none of the feathers in this particular stone came to the surface was because they were plotted in red. Plotting in green implies a surface characteristic, such as naturals or blemishes. But feathers are going to be plotted in red as they invariably extend below the surface.

 

[Rockdiamond]

AH- Red versus green.
Thanks for pointing that out Bryan, I had not taken note of that distinction on GIA report plots before.

Interesting about our experiences with feathers.
My personal experience is that they are just as likely to be deep inside as opposed to bear the surface.
Likely we look at different types of stones on a regular basis.

Part of the reason I find it to be an interesting discussion is that feathers are sometimes mistakenly thought of as cracks in a diamond.
Sometimes feathers in an SI2 can be far less visible than other stones with crystals - so I sometimes like well placed feathers, if I'm going to buy a diamond with imperfection.

 

[SirGuy]

That's a pass for me. The I1 is iffy already, but with an IGI I'd wonder about durability and how those inclusions will affect the performance. The table is a bit small.

 

[Dizzie]

AH- Red versus green.
Thanks for pointing that out Bryan, I had not taken note of that distinction on GIA report plots before.

Interesting about our experiences with feathers.
My personal experience is that they are just as likely to be deep inside as opposed to bear the surface.
Likely we look at different types of stones on a regular basis.

Part of the reason I find it to be an interesting discussion is that feathers are sometimes mistakenly thought of as cracks in a diamond.
Sometimes feathers in an SI2 can be far less visible than other stones with crystals - so I sometimes like well placed feathers, if I'm going to buy a diamond with imperfection.

Rockdiamond, thanks for chiming in.
Could you please elaborate briefly what would be a well placed feather in your definition?

 

[Dizzie]

That's a pass for me. The I1 is iffy already, but with an IGI I'd wonder about durability and how those inclusions will affect the performance. The table is a bit small.

First of all, let me mention than I am not insisting that this specific stone is a good choice.
However, interestingly i just lately read an article written by someone from rapnet, where 10 diamonds were sent to GIA, IGI, HRD and a couple of EGL labs. IGI came closest to GIA in that sample, followed by HRD and both EGL were far behind clearly over-grading the stones
Funny, that it does not fit with the experiences on this forum

As for the table, it is pretty small indeed. In my AGS tables, though it ended beind an "ideal cut" based on combination of crown and pavillion angles, which brought me to the point of asking questions in the first hand

 

[Lorelei]

Besides the proportions and the lab grading, I would be wary of the red circular grade making inclusions, just in case as it's an I1 clarity, they were eye visible or had a negative impact on the transparency of the diamond.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi Dizzy– About how to pick an imperfect stone with the "right" kind of feathers or imperfections – there is no way to do this using a GIA or any lab plot.
In many ways these plots are actually worse than useless because they imply that they're giving you information that they are not. Sometimes markings on the on the plot that can look huge can be insignificant in real life, and vice versa.
The answer then, is physical inspection.

About a study of 10 stones… This is kind of like the plot on the reports. It's giving you what seems like useful information however 10 stones is an insignificant sample size.
Stick with GIA if you want accurate grading.

 

[WinkHPD]

It might be ok from a cutting standpoint, although you would need more information to know. But that might be a moot point considering the I1 clarity.
Also, what indication do you have that none of the feathers break the surface?

Texas Leaguer, what would be the additional information necessary to understand the cut better? Idealscope pictures?

Besides, I think, I get the major message to stay away of this stone. I was just being hopeful (a bit) as finding a well cut stone in Europe is hardly possible (except for CBI) and my friend is vary of importing something as expensive from overseas

Unfortunaly majority of well cut stones never make to this market, as it is pretty small

Then have your friend contact the folks there and go see one of their diamonds. It WILL be an eye opening experience.

It is truly impossible to understand the difference between a nice diamond cut and a great diamond until you have experienced it with your own eyes.

Plus, he will not be having to import the diamond since it is already in Europe. Your friend will have to pay VAT taxes whether or not he imports it, and while he is in Antwerpen he can arrange to see many diamonds from many vendors to know what he likes best.

Wink

P.S. Point of important fact. While I am a CBI vendor I will not be involved in any way with your purchase there and will not be compensated if you purchase there, as the sale will be handled by one of our European dealers. I do feel I need to say that in the interest of full disclosure.