shape
carat
color
clarity

Please help!!

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Hello everyone,

I''m a new poster here, but have been reading the forum for advice and tips. I love it!

I have been totally involved with the creation of my engagement ring. My boyfriend and I have been debating buying a particular diamond, but we''re not really sure if we''re getting ripped off. The diamond itself is beautiful, and the price seems right, but the diamonds'' stats don''t seem to mesh with what''s considered a "great" stone.

I''m sorry I don''t have any pictures, but the EGL-USA stats are:

Weight 2.15 CT
Shape ROUND BRILLIANT
Color I
Clarity VS1
Measurements 8.49 x 8.46 x 5 mm
Depth 59%
Table 62%
Crown 12%
Pavilion 44.5%
Crown Angle 32.4°
Pavilion Angle 41.7°
Girdle MEDIUM
Polish VERY GOOD
Symmetry VERY GOOD
Fluorescence FAINT
Culet NONE
Cut Grade IDEAL

The stone is to be set in a custom made platinum band (just plain, no diamonds) for $22,000 (after taxes). Again, we think the stone looks great and we are thinking the price is right, but we''re not exactly experts...I do know that the table is larger then the depth (which I have come to learn may be a bad thing?) Also, when I put the stone stats in the HCA, it scored a 5.6, which is considered "good." But I''m thinking we should be closer to the 2 range?

What do you think?? Does it sound like a good deal and a good stone, or are we getting ripped off??
23.gif
 

Laila619

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
11,676
I'm not an expert but a few things:

EGL grading tends to be softer, so be aware of that. For instance, if another lab graded the diamond it could be a J not an I.

I don't think the table being bigger than the depth is a good thing.

With regards to the cut adviser, you want to be at 2 or less ideally.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Ya, I've heard that EGL-USA is softer. But we're going to get it graded through GIA and the company we're buying from has offered to refund it if the stats are different by 1, so we have that working in our favour!!
 

ChunkyCushionLover

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 9/9/2009 12:24:16 AM
Author:diamonds.are.a.girls.bestfriend
Hello everyone,

I''m a new poster here, but have been reading the forum for advice and tips. I love it!

I have been totally involved with the creation of my engagement ring. My boyfriend and I have been debating buying a particular diamond, but we''re not really sure if we''re getting ripped off. The diamond itself is beautiful, and the price seems right, but the diamonds'' stats don''t seem to mesh with what''s considered a ''great'' stone.

I''m sorry I don''t have any pictures, but the EGL-USA stats are:

Weight 2.15 CT
Shape ROUND BRILLIANT
Color I
Clarity VS1
Measurements 8.49 x 8.46 x 5 mm
Depth 59%
Table 62%
Crown 12%
Pavilion 44.5%
Crown Angle 32.4°
Pavilion Angle 41.7°
Girdle MEDIUM
Polish VERY GOOD
Symmetry VERY GOOD
Fluorescence FAINT
Culet NONE
Cut Grade IDEAL

The stone is to be set in a custom made platinum band (just plain, no diamonds) for $22,000 (after taxes). Again, we think the stone looks great and we are thinking the price is right, but we''re not exactly experts...I do know that the table is larger then the depth (which I have come to learn may be a bad thing?) Also, when I put the stone stats in the HCA, it scored a 5.6, which is considered ''good.'' But I''m thinking we should be closer to the 2 range?

What do you think?? Does it sound like a good deal and a good stone, or are we getting ripped off??
23.gif
Welcome to Pricescope you will find you can get much better deals here than the stone you are asking about.

EGLUSA grades really soft it could be as low as a J or K and even a VS2 or SI1 by GIA/AGS strict standards.

That stone is not cut very well and for the same or less money you could have something like this:

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2133624.htm (ask for a PS discount and it will be cheaper). As far as cuts go for rounds you won''t find many that are better are more consistent than WF ACA diamonds, not to mention perfect hearts and arrows and negligible leakage.

They have many plain platinum bands as well like this one http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Solitaire/4-Prong-tiffany-style-Diamond-Solitaire_994.htm for $600.

You could also get something that has a very nice cut not a true hearts and arrows (you''d have to request an Idealscope image to confirm how much leakage there is) but could get this http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1254116.asp. A true I and VS1 and almost a half carat larger with a setting for the same money.
This one scores 1.8 on HCA.

Happy Hunting,
CCL
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
33,852
Date: 9/9/2009 12:30:17 AM
Author: diamonds.are.a.girls.bestfriend
Ya, I''ve heard that EGL-USA is softer. But we''re going to get it graded through GIA and the company we''re buying from has offered to refund it if the stats are different by 1, so we have that working in our favour!!
why waste the time if you can buy ACA for less?
 

stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
14,083
Bad cut.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
42,064
Date: 9/9/2009 12:24:16 AM
Author:diamonds.are.a.girls.bestfriend
Hello everyone,

I'm a new poster here, but have been reading the forum for advice and tips. I love it!

I have been totally involved with the creation of my engagement ring. My boyfriend and I have been debating buying a particular diamond, but we're not really sure if we're getting ripped off. The diamond itself is beautiful, and the price seems right, but the diamonds' stats don't seem to mesh with what's considered a 'great' stone.

I'm sorry I don't have any pictures, but the EGL-USA stats are:

Weight 2.15 CT
Shape ROUND BRILLIANT
Color I
Clarity VS1
Measurements 8.49 x 8.46 x 5 mm
Depth 59%
Table 62%
Crown 12%
Pavilion 44.5%
Crown Angle 32.4°
Pavilion Angle 41.7°
Girdle MEDIUM
Polish VERY GOOD
Symmetry VERY GOOD
Fluorescence FAINT
Culet NONE
Cut Grade IDEAL

The stone is to be set in a custom made platinum band (just plain, no diamonds) for $22,000 (after taxes). Again, we think the stone looks great and we are thinking the price is right, but we're not exactly experts...I do know that the table is larger then the depth (which I have come to learn may be a bad thing?) Also, when I put the stone stats in the HCA, it scored a 5.6, which is considered 'good.' But I'm thinking we should be closer to the 2 range?

What do you think?? Does it sound like a good deal and a good stone, or are we getting ripped off??
23.gif
This isn't a well cut diamond, personally I would keep looking. EGL USA are actually said to be the strongest of the EGL labs so I wouldn't write this diamond off because of that, it is the proportions in this case which are not good. It is also possible this diamond could show more colour/ warmth due to the cut quality and proportions, so you could find other I colours look whiter than this one.

More on EGL - http://diamonds.pricescope.com/grading.asp

As for the HCA the aim is to score below 2 then evaluate from there with images or your own eyes. This diamond might look ok in the store but if you get it outside in plain daylight you could see it doesn't sparkle much.

You have a very nice budget and can get something wonderful with it, don't settle!
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
11
Hey all,

thanks so much for your opinions!
but, I''m just a little confused. most of you said that the "cut is bad" but why would EGL-USA rate this stone as "ideal?" I could understand if EGL-USA gave it a lower grading, but it''s considered "ideal" so how off can they be??

also, we are adamant on not buying online...we just would rather buy from an "actual" store where we can see the stones and compare them. Therefore, most of the stones this size (with lower clarity) that we found in the store were way more then this stone.

we just really want to know if the ring is worth what we''re paying? or should we be paying way less?

also, is it THAT bad that the table is larger by 3% then the depth?

here are the HCA results as well:

Light Return Good
Fire Fair
Scintillation Fair
Spread or diameter for weight Excellent
Total Visual Performance 5.6 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion

I don''t know...we''re still very undecided! Any more thoughts?
 

stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Where are you based? Maybe there is a PS vendor near you that we can recommend you to go and take a look?

I have no idea what is the EGL parameter for giving a Ex in cut, but this stone is not going to be one no matter how you look at it.
 

canuk-gal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
25,646
Date: 9/9/2009 5:00:35 PM
Author: diamonds.are.a.girls.bestfriend
Hey all,

thanks so much for your opinions!
but, I''m just a little confused. most of you said that the ''cut is bad'' but why would EGL-USA rate this stone as ''ideal?'' I could understand if EGL-USA gave it a lower grading, but it''s considered ''ideal'' so how off can they be??

also, we are adamant on not buying online...we just would rather buy from an ''actual'' store where we can see the stones and compare them. Therefore, most of the stones this size (with lower clarity) that we found in the store were way more then this stone.

we just really want to know if the ring is worth what we''re paying? or should we be paying way less?

also, is it THAT bad that the table is larger by 3% then the depth?

here are the HCA results as well:

Light Return Good
Fire Fair
Scintillation Fair
Spread or diameter for weight Excellent
Total Visual Performance 5.6 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion

I don''t know...we''re still very undecided! Any more thoughts?
HI:

I quickly used the database here and input the color, size and clarity variables you provided--and stones were in the 16-18K range. And graded by a stricter lab, namely GIA.
Hence, you can do better on all aspects, IMHO. Would you like some help finding a stone? Do you want to use a B & M or do you mind buying online?

cheers--Sharon
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
The true value of something is what you are willing to pay for it and the trust you give yourself to know that "beautiful" is subjective and that for whatever freakish reason sometimes stones don''t make sense.

That said, ignore me and listen to everyone else lol
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
11
Hey Canuk-gal...we definitely do need help, because what we thought we knew about diamonds is now very little.

We prefer not to buy online. That being said, all the stones that compared to this one in stores were waaaay more money. Thats why it's hard for us to decide on whether or not we should just buy this ring!

I'm just confused because the cert tells me one thing, but everything else I'm reading is telling me something else. It's very frusturating!!!

geeeesh
29.gif


makes me not want one at all...

p.s. we're based out of Jacksonville, FL, so if you know of any great jewerly stores, that would be FAB!!
 

outatouch0

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
269
Hi Diamond - re:still undecided (and a bit confused) the good news is you found PS BEFORE purchasing a stone. Sounds to me like you two need to step back and take a breath. Relieve yourself of the urgency. One of the first things I figured out when I began shopping for diamonds was that I didn''t know enough about diamonds
23.gif
to be purchasing them.
Fortunately, you are here now and YOU CAN DO THIS :) You, very wisely, asked for opinions from more experienced diamond consumers. That is a great way to start. You now have been given some GREAT ADVICE. It is up to you if you want to continue making wise choices and take that advice.
If you are happy with the stone, then by all means go ahead and buy it. However, with such and important purchase it might be well worth your time to learn a little more about your purchase and explore some other options first. It seems to me perhaps, at this point, you are having difficulty understanding the advice being offered. That''s OKAY - This is exactly why PS is here - to help people just like us
35.gif
 

kittybean

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
4,125
Why are you so opposed to buying online? Check out the Show Me the Ring sub-forum here, and you can see hundreds (thousands, even) of gorgeous diamonds and engagement rings that were purchased online. There are some good, trustworthy online vendors out there who deliver an amazing product for a very reasonable price. You can also read some of the testimonials about online diamond vendors by other Pricescope consumers to familiarize yourself with good online jewelers.

Happy shopping!
 

boredstiff

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
145
Date: 9/9/2009 5:00:35 PM
Author: diamonds.are.a.girls.bestfriend
also, we are adamant on not buying online...

If you want the best price, you should really be buying online. The WF stones people linked to look great. I'm sure they have a generous return policy. So why don't you buy one of those, then take it into the jewelry store selling the poorly cut 2.15 and make a decision then. If you don't like the WF stone, just return it. You just pay shipping.


EDIT: Plus you save on tax by buying it online. That'll offset any returns you might have to make.
 

stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,083
Hmm.. the nearest is UnionDiamond in Atlanta, so not really near.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
11
Ya Atlanta is not really that close!!

I guess we didn''t consider online buying because we want to see it before buying. I couldn''t imagine buying something that costly just by looking at it online. I don''t even buy clothes online, let alone a diamond!! Call me old fashioned, I guess!!!

Outatouch: you''re right I''m glad I found this site! And you guessed it...I am very confused about the advice. I am taking a LARGE step back and considering all options. I guess it''s just a little unsettling because we finally found something we thought we loved, but now it seems like it''s not a good stone..

When comparing diamonds online to diamonds in the store, you are all right: they are a better deal, but I still can''t wrap my head around buying it without actually seeing it!!
33.gif
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
27,198
Date: 9/9/2009 6:27:53 PM
Author: diamonds.are.a.girls.bestfriend
Ya Atlanta is not really that close!!

I guess we didn''t consider online buying because we want to see it before buying. I couldn''t imagine buying something that costly just by looking at it online. I don''t even buy clothes online, let alone a diamond!! Call me old fashioned, I guess!!!

Outatouch: you''re right I''m glad I found this site! And you guessed it...I am very confused about the advice. I am taking a LARGE step back and considering all options. I guess it''s just a little unsettling because we finally found something we thought we loved, but now it seems like it''s not a good stone..

When comparing diamonds online to diamonds in the store, you are all right: they are a better deal, but I still can''t wrap my head around buying it without actually seeing it!!
33.gif
Most of the on line vendors will send a stone to an approved appraiser where you can get an unbiased opinion. If you dont like
the way it looks or dont like what the appraiser has to say you can send it back for a refund. Some vendors like Good Old Gold
will do videos of a particular stone for you so you can see it in different light and get a feel for the stone before deciding on it.
Believe me when we tell you that thousands of people have bought their diamonds on-line. Plus you get a bigger selection
to consider and a lower price to boot. No, I dont work for a vendor. I''m just trying to help with the comfort factor of
buying on line.
 

stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
14,083
Also, all the trusted vendors have good return policy, you don''t like it, you can just send it back for a full refund except shipping fees.
 

tap02150

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
275
Ok, well first things first. i was the exact same way about purchasing a diamond online when i first started looking. I was even OK with spending quite a bit more money on a similar diamond, just to have the security of seeing it. Heres the big part:

What i was NOT ok doing, was paying a significant more for a lesser quality diamond. With that being said, all the jewelry stores i went to in person fed me 100 percent bullsh!t about diamonds. They tried to tell me, "don''t worry about the cut and the numbers, its all about the sparkle!" "its not about the Ideal scope Images or ASET images, its what your eyes see!"

Yeah.. what my eyes see now is a whiteflash ACA princess diamond that BLOWS AWAY any other diamond i saw in store... and for significantly cheaper, better customer service, and BETTER company policies! it was a guarentee not to fail situation! I loved every minute of it, and i would highly recommend you at LEAST calling and talking to some of the vendors.. you will get a better idea of how business is handled. LESS BULL SH!T, more sattisfaction!

Going back a few steps in the process, I found PriceScope and learned that many vendors used these tactics to sell bad cut diamonds. They also used special lighting to help sell their diamond. IN addition, to compare the diamond, they gave me an even crappier spec. diamond. Of course the "good" cut was better lol.

Anyway, take my suggestion and the suggestion of many others here in stepping back, contacting the price scope vendors such as

WhiteFlash.com,

Goodoldgold.com,

JamesAllen.com and others.

Give them a call :D


These companies give you pictures and stats most vendors on the street dont! (Pictures of the diamond, Ideal Scope, ASET, Sarin report, EVEN VIDEO!)

These are the hard evidence that will guide you to an amazing diamond!

when/if you feel comfortable buying online, price scope community members will help you find the right diamond :)

Good luck,

-Ted
 
Joined
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Messages
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Wow...you guys are all so helpful and supportive!! Thank you so much! I''m definitely going to take you all up on your offers of helping us find a new diamond if we don''t end up purchasing this one (which looks unlikely now...
38.gif
)

I have another question though regarding online buying: what happened when you want to insure your diamond? I know many stores offer full warranties replacing your stone if it chips, cracks, falls out. And they are usually lifetime warranties. With a stone that large and pricey, I want to know I have some sort of security! Do you know if online stores offer any type of insurance, or do I have to get it on my own? That is another major factor influencing our purchase.
33.gif
 

CharmyPoo

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
7,007
The online vendors have far better policies than I have seen from B&M stores so you are in good hands. I have never seen a B&M store that provides insurance against chipping and damage on a diamond. Most people will have to purchase separate insurance for that type of protection on their diamonds.
 

tap02150

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
275
Speaking about insurance;

I believe Infinity diamonds :Infinity

Are insured for 1 year.. this might be for loose diamonds only.

What insurance are you referring to? insurance when its shipped? insurance during a buy back period? insurance during setting? or like life long insurance? like if the ring was stolen?

Most people would reccomend

Jewelers Mutual
 

ChunkyCushionLover

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
2,463
Date: 9/9/2009 9:37:40 PM
Author: diamonds.are.a.girls.bestfriend
Wow...you guys are all so helpful and supportive!! Thank you so much! I'm definitely going to take you all up on your offers of helping us find a new diamond if we don't end up purchasing this one (which looks unlikely now...
38.gif
)

I have another question though regarding online buying: what happened when you want to insure your diamond? I know many stores offer full warranties replacing your stone if it chips, cracks, falls out. And they are usually lifetime warranties. With a stone that large and pricey, I want to know I have some sort of security! Do you know if online stores offer any type of insurance, or do I have to get it on my own? That is another major factor influencing our purchase.
33.gif
We were also skeptical about buying online but after seeing all the information provided by GoodoldGold and other vendors we decided to try a test we went around to ever local dealer and looked at their best diamonds in all sort of lighting situations.

Then we came here and found two great vendors and ordered two of the best choices into the office of a local appraisor. See our story here https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-shocking-final-diamond-choice-i-gave-to-my-fiance-which-one-would-you-pick.121154/ My fiance then looked at the diamonds and chose the one she liked best. BTW the diamonds we had brough in from PS vendors BLEW AWAY the crap we had seen locally there was no comparison. B&M people and non Gemologists even some appraisors just don't emphasize enough how important cut is.

Please before you buy any diamond spend the $65 approximate or less shipping (nothing if you buy it) and $100 or less to see a diamond(Like an ACA from Whiteflash) in an appraisor's office if you don't think it is so far superior to what you are looking at, then you can be confident in your choice locally, but I highly doubt that will happen and you will be very happy you you saw one of the diamonds reccomended in your thread.

Regarding insurance most people here add the diamonds to their home insurance policy, or get Jeweler's Mutual insurance. Doing this is really easy as you will already have had an appraisor's report and this combined with your sales receipt is more than enough to get insurance from your home insurer. PS vendors also include an appraisal (Whiteflash and Goodoldgold) with the sales receipt and often that is all you need for your insurance company but you should call yours and ask them.

I've seen some insurance policies offered by the seller of the diamond and you usually pay a huge premium for this insurance and often they don't cover accidents where you are at fault.

Good-luck,

CCL

We are Pricescope of B0RG you will be Assimilated (BOINK)
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
11
Hey Tap,

Thanks for researching for diamonds...you are slowly swaying me to the other side of online diamond shopping!

I''m not sure what the insurance is called, but the sales associate from Helzberg diamonds told us that we pay around $275 once and it covers all insurance for damage to your ring if the diamond chips, breaks, or falls out for the lifetime of your ring. Has anyone else heard of this??

As for getting insurance for the ring, my BF looked into it, and it would cost approximately $600 a year to insure using his insurance company, so we really wanted to buy from a place that would come with insurance.
 

outatouch0

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
269
Date: 9/9/2009 10:45:38 PM
Author: diamonds.are.a.girls.bestfriend
Thanks for researching for diamonds...you are slowly swaying me to the other side of online diamond shopping!

I''m not sure what the insurance is called, but the sales associate from Helzberg diamonds told us that we pay around $275 once and it covers all insurance for damage to your ring if the diamond chips, breaks, or falls out for the lifetime of your ring. Has anyone else heard of this??

Yea, everybody has heard of it - its the same "protection plans" they try to up-sell you when you by anything from a toaster to a TV.

As far as to buy online or not to buy online... Why not put the buying part on hold for a bit and take the time to learn about what makes a great diamond. That is probably how you are going to come to understand what the fine folks here at PS are talking about. Start off with some of the tutorials and read a few posts each day. You will be talking diamonds before you know it
16.gif
 

ChunkyCushionLover

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
2,463
Date: 9/9/2009 10:45:38 PM
Author: diamonds.are.a.girls.bestfriend
Hey Tap,

Thanks for researching for diamonds...you are slowly swaying me to the other side of online diamond shopping!

I''m not sure what the insurance is called, but the sales associate from Helzberg diamonds told us that we pay around $275 once and it covers all insurance for damage to your ring if the diamond chips, breaks, or falls out for the lifetime of your ring. Has anyone else heard of this??

As for getting insurance for the ring, my BF looked into it, and it would cost approximately $600 a year to insure using his insurance company, so we really wanted to buy from a place that would come with insurance.
Be sure to check the fine print of the insurance policy you would like to get. That does not cover loss or theft. The chances of a quality diamond with a medium or thin to thick girdle chipping is very low, in addition a quality setting and stone that is well set and checked every couple of years also has a very low chance of any of those events occurring. Much more likely is the ring being lost or stolen. Insurance companies use actuarial tables and the chance of an event occurring is factored into the price, that is why this price is so low in comparison to full comprehensive coverage. I bet the markup on those store sold policies is high because the cost of insuring against damage is a very low percentage.

I would check with a few other insurance companies, you might be able to get your yearly premiums down to $300 or $400 yearly. Our ER and Wedding bands cost around 20k and the premium is only $300 extra on our home policy to insure all of them with full coverage. You might even be able to get really cheap yearly insurance if all you want to insure against is accidental damage to the ring.
 

arjunajane

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
9,758
OP,
To my knowledge, jewellery stores/chains don''t sell insurance, they sell warranties...?

Often there are strict parameters and hoops to jump through for keeping your warranty up to date (ie. bringing ring into store for checking/cleaning every couple months at least), otherwise they won''t pay if something happens. I''ve read a number of situations on here where people have been caught out by these "fabulous policies", and ended up in a struggle with the store to get what they were owed.

Please, read some of the policies of the vendors you have already been referred to. Most of them are water tight.
A number of them are also "real life" stores and not just web stores, with B&M''s and v. good reputations in their communities.

You should really consider getting a proper insurance policy (preferably one specialized for such an item), added onto your home insurance. If your current one is too expensive, you can always shop around. But the premiums for these items do tend to be higher, as the risk is simply higher.
If you search "insurance" here, there is days of reading on the various companies and policies that are most often recommended.
The right policy will cover you for loss, theft or damage - some even if you are travelling O/S.
The store warranty is only going to pay if their product becomes faulty, basically.
 
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