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stupefy99

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
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First off, I would just like to say that this site and forum are absolutely great! Even if it is making me a little paranoid ;)


Here is my story:


The diamond I had my eye on a couple of weeks ago for an engagement ring was unfortunately sold just days before I was prepared to buy it, and I have been frantically searching for a similar one since. I have no idea how frequently new diamonds that meet my criteria come on to the market, but I failed to find any new ones in those couple of weeks.


As fate would have it, the diamond is back on the market for reasons unknown. I am fairly positive I''m going to pull the trigger on this one, but I would first love to hear a few opinions from the great people here at pricescope.com!


Here is the diamond: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1087025.asp
(it is "No Longer Available" because I have it reserved)

The idealscope image is also attached. Here is my list of pros and cons:


Positives:
1) It is close to my desired carat weight (1 1/4)
2) It is an AGS0
3) Is scores well on the HCA (1.3 ex-ex-ex-vg)
4) The idealscope image looks great.
5) It is in the "colorless" range (my GF seems to be color-sensitive)
6) I was informed that the diamond is an eye-clean SI1
7) It is in my price range! (~$7200)
Negatives:
1) The feather on the pavilion makes me a little leery of the integrity.
2) It has a fairly small table/large depth, and the spread is on the small side. 6.79 x 6.85 = 6.82 avg. spread (by interpolating, the avg. spread for a 1.22 cw diamond should be about 6.94)
3) It is a bit fishy that it seemed to be purchased and returned...although I have no way of knowing the details.
4) I was hoping to find one with some fluorescence, but it seems that medium to strong is very hard to come by.
5) THE MAIN ONE - I haven''t seen many AGS0-F-SI1 diamonds in this size and price range. What am I compromising with this diamond? As my least favorite college professor would say, "There is no free lunch". :)

Any feedback would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!



DT145id2.jpg
 
It's very possible that it was taken out on memo for a client to see a few stones and they chose another one. It's also possible they changed their mind, the deal fell through, etc. There are a number of reasons it might have come back, so don't worry just yet.

The stone really looks great to me and a quick sweep of PS vendors hasn't had me finding anything else that looks nearly as nice for that price. I would stick with it personally. It does face up a bit small because of the depth, but it's not the end of the world IMO.

As for the feather, you can get it appraised before your return period is up and your appraiser should be able to tell you if it might hurt the structural integrity of the stone. Otherwise, just insure it ASAP and hope for the best!
 
IS looks great.

Yes it's facing up a bit smaller, but you wouldn't be able to tell side by side with one of preferred diameter. And, this scenario doesn't bother me like when you have a stone JUST at a magic number weight wise, but facing up smaller.

I agree, have it looked at if it will make you feel better, and insure it!!

Should be a gorgeous stone.
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Thanks for the input! I think I''m sold on doing a local appraisal and seeing it for myself before the return period is up.

The bad news is that it looks like I may have found another contender: http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?__fun_frm=i&track=btntext_select&elem=img&pid=LD01133067&filter_id=0

I hate that bluenile.com doesn''t provide pictures or anything. I would be taking a hit in color (F to G), but the spread is considerably bigger (6.82 to 6.98).

Dare I consider the option of sending them both to a local appraiser and returning one? Is anyone familiar with either James Allen''s or Blue Nile''s return/shipping/restocking policies?
 
Honestly, I wouldn''t bother. The JA stone is an AGS0, with a good IS, it''s safe. BN is GIA, no pics, trickier. And the difference in size is negligable. Once you get to 1 ct., it takes a good bit of weight to see a difference in size.

I''d stick with JA if it were me.
 
I''m sorry I don''t know their return policies. I do like the numbers on the G stone better, personally.
 
Date: 8/16/2007 7:24:40 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I'm sorry I don't know their return policies. I do like the numbers on the G stone better, personally.
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I agree. The depth is not so good on the JA stone (62.5%). The BN stone has a better depth (60.9%) and faces up larger. The two diamonds are otherwise fairly comparable in cut. With the favorable combo of numbers on the BN stone, you don't really need an idealscope picture.

BN has a 30-day return policy. Don't know about JA's return policy.
 
I appreciate all of your opinions. It''s a tough decision. If it were for myself, I would obviously go with the AGS0, F color diamond with an idealscope because I think it would be worth more. On the other hand, my GF could care less about those things and just wants it "big and sparkly" :)

I agree that the size difference between a 6.82 and 6.98 mm spread may be hard to discern, but when it is all said and done, I will only have one of them, and there is another perspective to look at. I basically want this diamond to look bigger than a 1 carat, so let''s say the average 1 ct has a 6.5 mm spread.

Diamond #1 is .32 mm bigger, an increase of 4.9%
Diamond #2 is .48 mm bigger, an increase of 7.4%

My thinking is that diamond #2 would be more likely to look bigger than a 1 ct to the average person. Thoughts?

I am currently waiting to hear back from Blue Nile regarding the inclusions on their stone. Still no pictures though
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I just found this chart while I was searching through pricescope. The 6.8 and 7.0 mm diamonds are close to what I am looking at...

carat_size_chart1_1.jpg
 
Here is the same picture with the 7.0 mm one moved next to the 1 ct...

carat_size_chart1_2.JPG
 
The difference between these two and a 1 ct. are not going to be huge. Like I said, once you get to the 1 ct. mark, it starts taking more weight to see the difference.

As you can see, side by side there is very little. On her finger, they are basically going to look the same. The only way one would know either looked slightly bigger than the 1 ct. is if both were on her finger.
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Here''s something else that might, or might not interest you. BN has no upgrade policy, JA does. If that is not a concern, go with the one that will ease your mind.


Can you have the GIA stone looked at by an independant appraiser?
 
Thanks once again for your feedback everyone. I contacted a local appraiser (found through pricescope) and talked to him about the possibility of doing a quick and dirty evaluation of both stones before I choose one, and then proceeding with the full appraisal on the stone of my choice. He said it would be no problem, and that I definitely would not be charged for two appraisals.

I think I am going to go ahead and have both stones sent to him to tame my curiousity, if nothing else. I''m guessing it will probably cost me about $80 - $100 (shipping to and from, as well as for the appraiser''s time) for the convenience of comparing them, but I think I''m willing to live with it.

Does my ballpark estimate for shipping, etc. sound reasonable?
 
Oh, and thanks for the heads up about the upgrade policy, Ellen, but I don''t think that will be an issue. The GF is a bit of a "traditionalist" and I don''t think she would ever give up the original engagement ring. i.e. If she ever gets an upgrade, she''ll still be keeping the original!
 
I am no expert, so maybe someone can clarify, without the crown and pavillion angles how do you know that the BN diamond will perform better than the James Allen diamond?

I would NOT get a diamond with no light return evaluation on it over one that does and is excellent. While the difference in size seems big by the chart, the chart you're looking at is huge, and the sizes are exagerated. You're talking about a 1/10th of a milimeter difference, which at this size, isn't noticeble (compared to when looking at diamonds right around the 1 ct and under range).

Take a piece of paper, take a ballpoint pen and draw a line, that's the size difference we're talking about.

Good luck with your search! And the first diamond seems lovely =)

EDIT: Saw you came to a decision to order both...congrats!!
 
peridot83,

The crown and pavillion angles are listed on the GIA report for the bluenile diamond. They are 35.0 and 40.8, respectively.
 
Thanks, totally missed that.
 
Appraisal results:

The first diamond we looked at was the James Allen AGS0. Everything listed on the certificate seemed to be in line with what the appraiser found (1.22 c, F color, SI1 clarity, AGS0 cut). There were two very small crystals under the table, and a feather on the pavillion.

The second diamond was the Blue Nile with a GIA report. Again, most everything lined up with the report (1.25 c, G color, SI1 clarity, GIA Ex-Ex-Ex), but he thought the color grade was possibly closer to an H. There were also two clear crystals under the table of this diamond, in similar locations to the first, but they were a bit larger. These were the only noticeable inclusions.

Despite the color differences, it seemed to me that the Blue Nile stone was obviously whiter when view face up due to it's flourescence (Med. Blue vs. Negligable). Another interesting thing is that I could also see the difference in size fairly easily. I could definitely tell the difference between the two diamonds. One thing I did notice was that the F color looked a little whiter in low light, which makes sense I guess.

Because of the face up whiteness and size difference, I went against my original feelings (before seeing the stones) and picked the Blue Nile, GIA graded stone.

The only thing that is still nagging me is the light performance. As I understand it, AGS takes light return into account when grading their diamonds, so an AGS0 is pretty much guaranteed to have excellent light performance. I don't believe this is the case with GIA. I know I saw them side by side and picked one, but wasn't able to view them under a wide variety of lighting conditions. And to be honest, I really don't trust my eyes. Is there any way for me to find out that this diamond has good light performance "on paper"? It would help put my mind at ease...
 
Date: 8/23/2007 10:26:31 AM
Author: stupefy99
Appraisal results:


The only thing that is still nagging me is the light performance. As I understand it, AGS takes light return into account when grading their diamonds, so an AGS0 is pretty much guaranteed to have excellent light performance. I don''t believe this is the case with GIA. I know I saw them side by side and picked one, but wasn''t able to view them under a wide variety of lighting conditions. And to be honest, I really don''t trust my eyes. Is there any way for me to find out that this diamond has good light performance ''on paper''? It would help put my mind at ease...
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Did the appraiser give their opinion on which was the better?
 
Also, aside from size and whiteness, you don''t mention observing other things. i.e. scintillation, fire, contrast. Did you look for those?
 
We didn''t really get into the topic to light performance, which I am kicking myself for right now. He compared the two side by side for a short while after I did, and said that it was pretty much splitting hairs, but he didn''t say specifically what he was referring to. Are light performance results typically part of an appraiser''s job?
 
Like I said, I don''t really think my eyes were cut out for this....they both looked sparkly. :)
 
Date: 8/23/2007 10:42:59 AM
Author: stupefy99
We didn''t really get into the topic to light performance, which I am kicking myself for right now. He compared the two side by side for a short while after I did, and said that it was pretty much splitting hairs, but he didn''t say specifically what he was referring to. Are light performance results typically part of an appraiser''s job?
Click to expand...
Well, if you feel he was competant, I would take this as meaning either one would be a good choice. Of course, I can'' know that for sure, just going on assumptions here.

I''ve only had one appraisal, and it was only to verify my stone matched my cert basically, so it was not indepth. I don''t know about light performance grading during an indepth appraisal, and how many might do that.

I seriously doubt your stone is a dud though. So enjoy it.
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Thanks for all your feedback, Ellen. I really appreciate it.
 
Date: 8/23/2007 11:03:45 AM
Author: stupefy99
Thanks for all your feedback, Ellen. I really appreciate it.
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No probem.
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However, you owe me pics of the finished product now.
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