Please help me learn evaluate old cuts from seller photos

[Dreamer_D]

I have concerns about leakage or over darkness under the table. The pictures made me concerned as the under table area shows some leakage and the faceting is less defined than I would like to see, and the 71% depth confirms my concerns. That depth is common in OMCs but in an OEC it’s excessive - there aren’t rules per se about proportions but there are ranges and that’s extreme. Without better pictures of video (which you won’t get from eBay sellers like that) I would not personally proceed.

It’s also facing up really small bc of the depth.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Compare the .77 I recommended which has a 66% depth and 5.7-5.8mm spread, and look at the crisp defined faceting under the table



Compared to the one you just posted. See how undefined the under table facets are? (Pavilion mains). Also notice the haze areas at spanning 9 to 11 o’clock?



Some of that difference is photography but mostly it’s faceting.

 

[Drahokam]

Compare the .77 I recommended which has a 66% depth and 5.7-5.8mm spread, and look at the crisp defined faceting under the table



Compared to the one you just posted. See how undefined the under table facets are? (Pavilion mains). Also notice the haze areas at spanning 9 to 11 o’clock?



Some of that difference is photography but mostly it’s faceting.

For OEC past what depth %should one be concerned? thank you for helping me eliminate this particular stone!

 

[Dreamer_D]

For OEC past what depth %should one be concerned? thank you for helping me eliminate this particular stone!

I wouldn’t exclude based only on depth but by triangulating with appearance. As I said it in the issues are apparent in the images. Most old cuts you might find don’t have lab reports anyway. I’ve seen gorgeous OECs with depths anywhere from 57% to 66 ish. A more common good range might be 60-66 but it depends on so many other factors which is why you just have to learn to recognize good cut in bad pictures.

 

[Drahokam]

I wouldn’t exclude based only on depth but by triangulating with appearance. As I said it in the issues are apparent in the images. Most old cuts you might find don’t have lab reports anyway. I’ve seen gorgeous OECs with depths anywhere from 57% to 66 ish. A more common good range might be 60-66 but it depends on so many other factors which is why you just have to learn to recognize good cut in bad pictures.

Would you mind highlighting where in the stone picture you see the problematic faceting? I think i know what you mean but not entirely sure.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Would you mind highlighting where in the stone picture you see the problematic faceting? I think i know what you mean but not entirely sure.

Sorry I’m too tired. I have old threads/posts back in like 2012 where I analyze the shit out of old cuts lol. Maybe you can find some. Search for posts by me that include words like “obstruction” or “lower halves” or “table”.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Actually I also went on and on about this in EllieTO’s recent search thread so check that out too.

 

[Drahokam]

Sorry I’m too tired. I have old threads/posts back in like 2012 where I analyze the shit out of old cuts lol. Maybe you can find some. Search for posts by me that include words like “obstruction” or “lower halves” or “table”.

No worries, i appreciate all your help and will go look for those threads. I read some of it before but need to reread.

 

[Dreamer_D]

No worries, i appreciate all your help and will go look for those threads. I read some of it before but need to reread.

Yeah sorry, I just had a medical treatment and it’s totally wiping me out! I don’t have the stamina for technical posts.

 

[Drahokam]

Yeah sorry, I just had a medical treatment and it’s totally wiping me out! I don’t have the stamina for technical posts.

I am sorry to hear, i hope you feel better soon. I realize i am asking a lot of questions and you have given lot of your time and i really appreciate it. I found the posts, coffins and pie slices.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I am sorry to hear, i hope you feel better soon. I realize i am asking a lot of questions and you have given lot of your time and i really appreciate it. I found the posts, coffins and pie slices.

Keep asking! I’m happy to help (within my capacity).

 

[Drahokam]

This one looks so brown! I don’t understand the K grade - it doesn’t say brown modifier on the report but I would be wary especially if it’s no return.

The no return is an issue for me too,

Yeah no returns might be a deal breaker. Hard to judge color from vendor photos unfortunately.

Yes, the no return is an issue for me if there are already concerns about the color.

Seller of the other stone got back to me, the N color/ SI1, said it is eye clean and they have a return policy. This one is also slightly brown but to my untrained eye it does look quite white in the video.

 

[Drahokam]

The no return is an issue for me too,


Yes, the no return is an issue for me if there are already concerns about the color.

Seller of the other stone got back to me, the N color/ SI1, said it is eye clean and they have a return policy. This one is also slightly brown but to my untrained eye it does look quite white in the video.

Keep asking! I’m happy to help (within my capacity).

Thank you so much ! I also wanted to share my pendant. The stone does go dark around the culet like you explain in the previous threads but it is lively and looks quite white, eye clean and is large enough to see faceting with naked eye (7.5mm is the collet setting). My photos do not show that at all unfortunately. Not sure if this one is an OEC or OMC.

 

[Dreamer_D]

The no return is an issue for me too,


Yes, the no return is an issue for me if there are already concerns about the color.

Seller of the other stone got back to me, the N color/ SI1, said it is eye clean and they have a return policy. This one is also slightly brown but to my untrained eye it does look quite white in the video.

I’m less concerned about color on the .77 bc it has a Gia report and K is barely tinted. But my understanding is GIA doesn’t even add the “brown” modifier until L so it’s possible the stone has brown. But no returns is always a risk.

The N is graded as faint brown and it’s an N. so it will definitely show its brown. Some people like this a lot. I have one faint brown stone which is in the JK range. It’s in my pendant. In most lighting in its own it just looks white. But in spot lighting it goes deep cognac color. Here you can see the tint compared to GIA JK stones with yellow body color.

Middle.


And set in my pendant.



I would say overall brown tint stones appear a little darker though in diffuse lighting they still look very white. If you decide to try the N, ask the seller if they will consider offers below asking bc the stone has been for sale a very long time.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Thank you so much ! I also wanted to share my pendant. The stone does go dark around the culet like you explain in the previous threads but it is lively and looks quite white, eye clean and is large enough to see faceting with naked eye (7.5mm is the collet setting). My photos do not show that at all unfortunately. Not sure if this one is an OEC or OMC.

That’s a cool very very old stone. I suspect if it was not bezelled the issues under the table would be less. These stones with leakage or over deep sometimes benefit from light entering around the pavilion. But the setting looks original so obvs I’d leave it alone.

Looks like an OMC to me. Can’t tell if nuts round or cushions shaped bc of the bezel. But I’d put it circa 1850 if it’s a little rounded. I love it. Many of the critiques I have written about don’t apply so much to these super old ladies. Really OMCs are all very deep and have “issues” with light return in overhead mechanical lighting. They look best in candle light coming from the side. Super oldies need to be given some grace though there are still really ugly ones out there and no one wants a true nail head.

 

[Drahokam]

I’m less concerned about color on the .77 bc it has a Gia report and K is barely tinted. But my understanding is GIA doesn’t even add the “brown” modifier until L so it’s possible the stone has brown. But no returns is always a risk.

The N is graded as faint brown and it’s an N. so it will definitely show its brown. Some people like this a lot. I have one faint brown stone which is in the JK range. It’s in my pendant. In most lighting in its own it just looks white. But in spot lighting it goes deep cognac color. Here you can see the tint compared to GIA JK stones with yellow body color.

Middle.


And set in my pendant.



I would say overall brown tint stones appear a little darker though in diffuse lighting they still look very white. If you decide to try the N, ask the seller if they will consider offers below asking bc the stone has been for sale a very long time.

Your stone is beautiful, love the pendant you put it in and it is helpful to see it next to your other stones for color comparison.

 

[Drahokam]

I’m less concerned about color on the .77 bc it has a Gia report and K is barely tinted. But my understanding is GIA doesn’t even add the “brown” modifier until L so it’s possible the stone has brown. But no returns is always a risk.

The N is graded as faint brown and it’s an N. so it will definitely show its brown. Some people like this a lot. I have one faint brown stone which is in the JK range. It’s in my pendant. In most lighting in its own it just looks white. But in spot lighting it goes deep cognac color. Here you can see the tint compared to GIA JK stones with yellow body color.

Middle.


And set in my pendant.



I would say overall brown tint stones appear a little darker though in diffuse lighting they still look very white. If you decide to try the N, ask the seller if they will consider offers below asking bc the stone has been for sale a very long time.

Here are photos of the N stone upside down.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Here are photos of the N stone upside down.

What do you think?

 

[Drahokam]

What do you think?

I think i am ok with it, the bottoms up color is quite soft, the front photos look soft white and I like the softer white of older stones. Metal wise for setting I believe yellow gold would help.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think i am ok with it, the bottoms up color is quite soft, the front photos look soft white and I like the softer white of older stones. Metal wise for setting I believe yellow gold would help.

It looks less brown than mine face down. The body color reads more yellow. Which I think all told is good. Yellow gold will emphasize the body color and white will lesson it, in my experience. But if you get it and you like it then you can decide.

@Lookinagain likes to set her brown tinted stones in rose gold I think. She has a few.

 

[Drahokam]

It looks less brown than mine face down. The body color reads more yellow. Which I think all told is good. Yellow gold will emphasize the body color and white will lesson it, in my experience. But if you get it and you like it then you can decide.

@Lookinagain likes to set her brown tinted stones in rose gold I think. She has a few.

Good to know, i get confused as far as which color helps with what, fortunately there is PS wisdom one can use

 

[Lookinagain]

It looks less brown than mine face down. The body color reads more yellow. Which I think all told is good. Yellow gold will emphasize the body color and white will lesson it, in my experience. But if you get it and you like it then you can decide.

@Lookinagain likes to set her brown tinted stones in rose gold I think. She has a few.

I do. Actually in either rose or yellow. I just don't like brown or yellow tinted stones in white metal if you can see the color. I have a few brown tinted stones but they all aren't old cuts so now sure how they differ.


Here is one that's a GIA L faint brown in yellow


this is an MRB GIA M, faint brown in rose.. not a great photo though




the earrings are GIA K faint brown in rose



These are all DK's photos, not mine.
And the only old cut is obviously the first one. And by the way, I'm not very color sensitive at all so consider that.

 

[Drahokam]

I do. Actually in either rose or yellow. I just don't like brown or yellow tinted stones in white metal if you can see the color. I have a few brown tinted stones but they all aren't old cuts so now sure how they differ.


Here is one that's a GIA L faint brown in yellow


this is an MRB GIA M, faint brown in rose.. not a great photo though




the earrings are GIA K faint brown in rose



These are all DK's photos, not mine.
And the only old cut is obviously the first one. And by the way, I'm not very color sensitive at all so consider that.

Beautiful pieces, thank you for sharing, it really helps me get a sense of what these colors look like when set

 

[Drahokam]

I purchased the N color lose stone, will share photos once i get it. I feel like I am running out of fingers to put rings on and that maybe i should start using the wrist real estate and set it in a curb chain bracelet.