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Please Help Me Decide! HCA Scores very Different

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njamal

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
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Hi PSers,

I''ve been reading these boards for the last few weeks and it has been a HUGE help (spent way too much time here but it''s so helpful!) But this is my first post and hopefully you guys and gals can provide some guidance.

For a quick background, I''ve been searching for a F, SI2 stone under 1.5 carrots and will be setting it in a 3/4 eternity shared prong setting in 18k White Gold. (Thanks to Demzela, Mara, Lynn B, Maxine, vespergirl, bluedawg, jjaks and many others for helping each other out which in turn helped me out tremendously)

I am down to 2 stones and need help deciding. Both are GIA Excellent cuts but have VERY different HCA scores.

How important is the HCA score? I''ve been reading it''s quite important but my online jeweler (who has been really patient and helpful, and not pushy at all) told me not to put much weight into the HCA score. Also, I can''t see the stones because it''s through an online jeweler.

On top of it all, the stone with the better HCA score is a G/SI1 and I''ve had my heart set on an F.

I need to decide by tomorrow on these 2 stones and really appreciate your honest feedback! I can afford to wait for another week maybe to see if something better comes in depending on your feedback.

Stone 1:
GIA Certified
Measurements: 7.00 - 7.03 x 4.38 mm
Carat Weight: 1.31
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: SI2 (Eye-Clean)
Cut Grade: Excellent

Proportions:
Depth: 62.4 %
Table: 57 %
Crown Angle: 33.5°
Crown Height: 14.5 %
Pavilion Angle: 41.6°
Pavilion Depth: 44.5 %
Star length: 55 %
Lower Half: 80 %
Girdle: Slightly Thick
Culet: None

Finish:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None

HCA Score: 5 - Good
Light Return: Good
Fire: Good
Scintillation: Good
Spread: Very Good

Stone 2:
GIA Certified
Measurements: 7.10 - 7.14 x 4.43 mm
Carat Weight: 1.36
Color Grade: G
Clarity Grade: SI1 (Eye-Clean)
Cut Grade: Excellent

Proportions:
Depth: 62.2 %
Table: 55 %
Crown Angle: 34.5°
Crown Height: 15.5 %
Pavilion Angle: 41.0°
Pavilion Depth: 43.5 %
Star length: 55 %
Lower Half: 80 %
Girdle: Medium (faceted)
Culet: None

Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: Faint

HCA Score: 1.9 - Excellent
Light Return: Excellent
Fire: Very Good
Scintillation: Very Good
Spread: Very Good

Thank you in advance!
 
Hi, Njamal, welcome.

Well...I think an HCA score is helpful enough to reject a 5.
 
Up to what level can a stone be considered a pass? From what I''ve read it seems like 2 and below is ideal, but what is the maximum ''acceptable'' HCA score generally?
 
Academically...3-ish, but unless you have a close relationship with someone with constrained stock, why not just stick with 0 - 2. Remember what they say, that''s just where you start, anyway, rejecting those that don''t comport to that.
 
Thanks for the info Regular Guy. Do you have any thoughts on ''Stone 2''?
 
I can see with you it scores under 2 on the HCA, which is favorable. That it doesn''t score in the box for AGS0 candidates is not necessarily a problem, but I''d encourage you to have a strategy in place to evaluate the diamond when it does come in, in case it doesn''t perform as desired.

To help in your strategy, I''d consider making a minor investment in an idealscope. And rushing it.

A different safer strategy, if available, with short time, is to just buy a diamond with a platinum AGS0 cert to begin with. But, this is not necessary. Just have your ducks in a row, and try to avoid being pushed against a wall to make a choice.

Regards,
 
Ira ( RG) offers excellent advice, and ditto him on the Idealscope for #2 diamond.
 
Thritto on #2 stone.
 
Thanks for all the advice everyone. Is it common for online jewelers to send IS images before purchasing? I am going to call them to see if they can do this.

From the ideal-scope website, which products would I need to order? Seems like there are different options.

Side note: I thought I had read everything there was to read on this forum over the last 3-4 weeks but guess there''s always more to learn!
 
Hi Ellen,

My budget is $7000 for the center stone. Stone 2 is $7068.

The stone you sent would be great (if eye clean), but out of my price range. I was originally looking at a budget closer to that for the center stone with just a solitaire setting (Tiffany setting), but decided to go the eternity band route so that ate up some of my budget.

Cheers,
Nadim
 
Date: 8/7/2009 9:43:54 AM
Author: njamal
Hi Ellen,

My budget is $7000 for the center stone. Stone 2 is $7068.

The stone you sent would be great (if eye clean), but out of my price range. I was originally looking at a budget closer to that for the center stone with just a solitaire setting (Tiffany setting), but decided to go the eternity band route so that ate up some of my budget.

Cheers,
Nadim
Click to expand...
Understand!

This one could possibly be a contender. Bad pic, but an IS would (hopefully) clear things up.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1249166.asp



Not all online jewelers do IS pics, don''t know who you''re working with, to say.

Not the best to advise on which IS to purchase, sorry.
 
Date: 8/7/2009 3:38:53 AM
Author: Regular Guy
I can see with you it scores under 2 on the HCA, which is favorable. That it doesn''t score in the box for AGS0 candidates is not necessarily a problem, but I''d encourage you to have a strategy in place to evaluate the diamond when it does come in, in case it doesn''t perform as desired.


To help in your strategy, I''d consider making a minor investment in an idealscope. And rushing it.


A different safer strategy, if available, with short time, is to just buy a diamond with a platinum AGS0 cert to begin with. But, this is not necessary. Just have your ducks in a row, and try to avoid being pushed against a wall to make a choice.


Regards,
Click to expand...
Hi Regular Guy,

Perhaps you can provide some guidance on the particulars of what to purchase from ideal-scope?

Cheers,
Nadim
 
Date: 8/7/2009 10:35:01 AM
Author: njamal

Date: 8/7/2009 3:38:53 AM
Author: Regular Guy
I can see with you it scores under 2 on the HCA, which is favorable. That it doesn''t score in the box for AGS0 candidates is not necessarily a problem, but I''d encourage you to have a strategy in place to evaluate the diamond when it does come in, in case it doesn''t perform as desired.


To help in your strategy, I''d consider making a minor investment in an idealscope. And rushing it.


A different safer strategy, if available, with short time, is to just buy a diamond with a platinum AGS0 cert to begin with. But, this is not necessary. Just have your ducks in a row, and try to avoid being pushed against a wall to make a choice.


Regards,
Click to expand...
Hi Regular Guy,

Perhaps you can provide some guidance on the particulars of what to purchase from ideal-scope?

Cheers,
Nadim
Click to expand...
This is what to buy Nadim

http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=2&ShowAdd=Y
 
Date: 8/7/2009 10:08:47 AM
Author: Ellen


This one could possibly be a contender. Bad pic, but an IS would (hopefully) clear things up.


http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1249166.asp




Not all online jewelers do IS pics, don''t know who you''re working with, to say.


Not the best to advise on which IS to purchase, sorry.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ellen! This stone does look nice and scores 2.5 (VG for all specs). Would this fall into the category of stones that are penalized by HCA due to a deeper pavilion?

My dilemma is that I''m currently going through an online wholesaler and they have been extremely helpful and they also have an affiliated local jeweler who is designing the rings. I would prefer to go through them as long as they are just as helpful in the final stage of the purchase.

I''m going through a company called Diamond Wholesale Corporation (definitely very different from JA or the other PS vendors). Since I''m located in Toronto, Canada it makes it a bit more difficult b/c the shipping and taxes here can be a killer so they''ve helped me to find a workaround solution. They do offer a return policy of 7 days (not 30) and there is no upgrade policy. Also, due to this ''workaround solution'', I would rather not have to return the diamond so want to do it right the first time (which I think is the case with most people anyway!).
 
Date: 8/7/2009 11:21:59 AM
Author: njamal

Date: 8/7/2009 10:38:20 AM
Author: Lorelei


This is what to buy Nadim


http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=2&ShowAdd=Y
Click to expand...


Thanks Lorelei!
Click to expand...
I''d agree, and think that could do the job...but I did buy, and would recommend the ideal light, too, and the CZ. This will add $35. I possibly bought a tweezers. I might review threads on the difference between the professional and regular versions of the IS, which I think is primarily magnification. If it''s this one purchase you''re mindful of, really the basic one is probably fine.
 
Ya, I would probably buy the beginner''s kit. CZ is to help you know what you are looking at.
 
Date: 8/7/2009 11:07:40 AM
Author: njamal


Thanks Ellen! This stone does look nice and scores 2.5 (VG for all specs). Would this fall into the category of stones that are penalized by HCA due to a deeper pavilion?

My dilemma is that I''m currently going through an online wholesaler and they have been extremely helpful and they also have an affiliated local jeweler who is designing the rings. I would prefer to go through them as long as they are just as helpful in the final stage of the purchase.

I''m going through a company called Diamond Wholesale Corporation (definitely very different from JA or the other PS vendors). Since I''m located in Toronto, Canada it makes it a bit more difficult b/c the shipping and taxes here can be a killer so they''ve helped me to find a workaround solution. They do offer a return policy of 7 days (not 30) and there is no upgrade policy. Also, due to this ''workaround solution'', I would rather not have to return the diamond so want to do it right the first time (which I think is the case with most people anyway!).
Click to expand...
Ah, ok, I understand. No problem. And you''re welcome!

Basically yes, the PA is causing the score it is. However, as mentioned before, if Gary were to revise the HCA, all the way up to 3ish could be a contender. And if cut with great precision, even a 35/41 can be a beautiful stone. It''s a case by case basis, with cut playing a big part.
28.gif



Good luck on your diamond purchase!
 
Date: 8/7/2009 11:25:48 AM
Author: Regular Guy

I''d agree, and think that could do the job...but I did buy, and would recommend the ideal light, too, and the CZ. This will add $35. I possibly bought a tweezers. I might review threads on the difference between the professional and regular versions of the IS, which I think is primarily magnification. If it''s this one purchase you''re mindful of, really the basic one is probably fine.
Click to expand...

Regular Guy...I really hope this is the only purchase I need to make!
32.gif


Oh yeah, and thanks for the input :)
 
Date: 8/7/2009 12:14:35 PM
Author: njamal



Date: 8/7/2009 11:25:48 AM
Author: Regular Guy

I'd agree, and think that could do the job...but I did buy, and would recommend the ideal light, too, and the CZ. This will add $35. I possibly bought a tweezers. I might review threads on the difference between the professional and regular versions of the IS, which I think is primarily magnification. If it's this one purchase you're mindful of, really the basic one is probably fine.
Click to expand...

Regular Guy...I really hope this is the only purchase I need to make!
32.gif


Oh yeah, and thanks for the input :)
Click to expand...
You should be able to get a good idea with just the scope if cash is a consideration. See the pic of Garry H holding the mounted diamond up to the light to illuminate the scope's image.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_mounted_diamonds.asp

And a desk lamp

http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_howto.asp
 
Thanks Lorelei!

I will either buy just the basic scope and calibration CZ or I''ll go all out and buy the starter kit.
 
I just confirmed ''Stone 2''! After a lengthy discussion with the wholesaler about HCA, difference between ideal cuts, and ideal-scope images (although they can''t provide one), I feel more comfortable with them now.

I guess she''s just not used to customers asking so many questions! I guess that''s where PS vendors probably take the cake since they know they are dealing with curious customers!

Thanks everyone for all your help and guidance!

I can''t wait to see the stone, the final setting and to be able to post pics when it''s all complete!
1.gif
 
Although the decision is now made, I think that you made the right choice with stone #2.

Now only is it likely that the cut (sparkle) is better, but F colour and SI2 clarity seem a bit of a mis-match - with a high colour grade and a medium clarity grade. I suggest G/SI1 as a better balance of colour and clarity - both being upper-middle grades and barely distinguishable from the top colour/clarity stones when mounted.
 
Congrats. :)
 
Ditto SC...and best of wishes!
 
Date: 8/7/2009 2:36:54 PM
Author: FB.
Although the decision is now made, I think that you made the right choice with stone #2.


Now only is it likely that the cut (sparkle) is better, but F colour and SI2 clarity seem a bit of a mis-match - with a high colour grade and a medium clarity grade. I suggest G/SI1 as a better balance of colour and clarity - both being upper-middle grades and barely distinguishable from the top colour/clarity stones when mounted.
Click to expand...

Thanks FB! That does make me feel a lot better! Generally I was finding the G/SI1 combo was more expensive than the F/SI2 combo (plus it''s a lot harder to find an eye clean SI2 stone) so I was a bit stuck.
 
Thanks again to everyone for making this final decision a lot less stressful than I thought it would be.

Hopefully this works out for the best. Still a lot to get done though since the setting can be fairly problematic as I''ve read from the experts on PS. But I took all of that into consideration when designing it with the jeweler so hopefully it comes out properly!

But I will definitely be back to share pictures and my overall first time buying experience!

Cheers,
Nadim
 
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