Please Help - Advice on Price for Engagement ring!

[sumofallshearers]

Hi Folks,

Been reading a lot of useful information relating to diamonds on this site and would like to ask advice if I may please. Not entirely sure if I'm posting this in the right place so please bear with me!

I recently proposed to my girfriend, now fiancee, and we are now in the process of buying an engagement ring. She has found the ring she really likes, however after reading a whole load of info regarding certification I would just like to ask if the price of this ring seems fair value.

Firstly, the ring is a platinum band solitare with a round cut 0.5ct diamond, D / IF grade and is in a well known and I believe reputable high-street jeweller in the UK. It is certified by EGL (I believe EGL USA, I can't remember exactly which EGL that the details were from seeing the cert. in store, but is definitely EGL). Also, the cert noted it had an "excellent" cut and zero fluorescence, I don't however remember the specifics of the cut and diameters of the stone etc I'm afraid.

Now, I've read about EGL USA and how they are generally accepted to give softer ratings and that it is not the benchmark GIA cert - we are not particularly bothered about this, we both really like the ring and the look of the diamond, and if the grading to GIA standards turned out to actually be something like F / VS1 or something it's not really an issue, I'm really looking for advice on the price to see if we're being taking for mugs or not, given that it may not actually be a D / IF!! Incidentally, I did get to view the diamond under 10x mag scope and I could not see any inclusions at all, albeit I'm by no means an expert, but did look very clear, dare I say it is certainly "eye clean" to use the lingo!

So, the ticket price for this ring is £4,750.00, but without even blinking we were offered an almost 15% discount at £4050.00 - is this a fair price, assuming that worst cast the grade is more like F / VS1? I'm planning to haggle further regardless, looking to pitch at £3,800 so is this also unreasonable? Any advice?

Just seems like a "relatively" cheap price for the D / IF grading, even accounting for a "soft" EGL cert. Feels a bit fishy to us and we're not even experts - for example, other rings she liked in other jewelers were 0.6ct, D / SI1 offered at £3,700 including discount (c£4,500 ticket price), and that was only with an IGI cert.

Would appreciate some comments / advice on this before I have to pay for the thing!!!

Thanks to all in advance!

 

[hawk25]

Unfortunately I think they're charging way too much. You're going to pay the equivalent of $6700 USD for the ring, and assuming the platinum solitaire setting cost $700, $6000 for the diamond alone. Here's a top of the line 0.58ct E VVS2 stone from GOG for $3558 USD (2138 British Pounds, not including wire discount), which I would say is comparable color and clarity wise assuming EGL USA is off by 2 color and clarity grades (which is certainly possible).

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11752/

I understand that it's a special thing to have a D IF stone, but you also recognize that it may actually be much lower by GIA's standards. So why overpay for those top grades when you know they truly aren't?

 

[hawk25]

So, the ticket price for this ring is £4,750.00, but without even blinking we were offered an almost 15% discount at £4050.00 - is this a fair price, assuming that worst cast the grade is more like F / VS1? I'm planning to haggle further regardless, looking to pitch at £3,800 so is this also unreasonable? Any advice?

Another comparison: For your pitching price of £3,800, and worst case scenario F VS1 grades, you could get this BGD Signature 0.84 F VS1. Properly graded by AGS, highest cut grade, and you'll never ever see a visual difference color or clarity wise compared to the EGL D IF.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.843-f-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104064814017

I would seriously think about the actual cost of a diamond where without even blinking, you were offered a 15% discount.

It's good you understand the differences between EGL and GIA/AGS for color and clarity, but you also have to consider the differences in cut grades. Cut is what determines sparkle, and EGL is claiming that it is excellent cut (their highest grade I believe). It's a fair assumption that EGL's cut grades are not on par with GIA's, and certainly not close to AGS'. Therefore you have to consider the possibility that the EGL stone isn't the best cut stone, and as such not the stone with the best sparkle.

 

[Gypsy]

OK so, let's train the newer posters who are trying to help.

Please stop comparing the EGL diamond to GIA diamonds of lower color and clarity. That's not how you do this.

it's not a straight: two colors off. Or anything like that.

first, on clarity they are spot on usually. So that stone is an IF.

On color they are an AVERAGE of two color grades off. What does that mean? It means that some stones are spot on. Some stones are 4 color grades off. (And yes, I have seen 4 color grades happen even with EGL USA). There is no way to tell. You don't know if that stone is a D or a G. If it was a straight two grades off then they wouldn't be considered that bad, because at least they would be reliable. The whole reason they are poorly regarded here is their inconsistency.

So what does that mean? TO GET THE COMP YOU HAVE TO COMPARE IT TO A D IF FROM EGL USA. OR get the GIA price and adjust for the EGL certificate (which trades at a discount).

How do you do that?
Well you can search for 1/2 EGL USA D IF's. But I wasn't able to find one of those.

So here's what we do:
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-good-cut-d-color-if-clarity_LD04138081?click_id=667107146 Here is a D IF from GIA.

EGL graded diamonds are currently offered within the trade at 9% - 15% lower than the same grade GIA-GTL stones.

So let's say 10% (for ease of math) and also because it's on the high scale.

$2332 http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-good-cut-d-color-if-clarity_LD04138081?click_id=667107146
X .90
____
$2098 USD for the stone.
http://www.bluenile.com/low-dome-comfort-fit-ring-platinum_25664 Platinum setting $720

So that's the price we are using as a comp.

$2098 USD for the stone.
Platinum setting $720
TOTAL: 2818.80
And that's on the high side. Since we only discounted 10% instead of up to 15% for the EGL certificate.

Covert to Pounds:
Stone: 1260.97
Setting: 432.74
Total Price 1693.71 in pounds.
So even if you add GST and import and all to that. You still got taken for a VERY EXPENSIVE ride and overpaid by A LOT.

 

[sumofallshearers]

Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it, and don't panic - haven't bought it yet.

Yes, I understand everything you are saying, I wonder if this is possibly how the market is here in the UK, i.e. high-street jewelers have ridiculously high mark ups!! I think being realistic, we won't go down the route of buying a loose diamond or even one set into a ring online, although I appreciate the examples provided - we'll likely end up buying one in store, it's just curious given the relative differences in price for those diamonds I mentioned before, i.e £4050 for an EGL D / IF, and £3700 for an IGI D / SI1 of same size and cut, although granted, I can't remember the cut spec on the IGI one, so again maybe not even like for like, but I assume we'll likely be paying over the odds regardless, and I also assume is very typical to the uninitiated majority that will go to these places to get engagement rings - she can't wait much longer to get that ring on her finger though!!!

Again, have no intention of ever selling the ring, so could argue that the cert and CCCC's don't matter if we like the ring / stone and all that, but would just sting more given the price, where as you say could either get a "proper" cert. diamond for similar grade for less, or go for a lesser grade that would still look ok but cost a hell of a lot less!!

Real problem being the other rings we have looked at she hasn't really liked something about it, be it the band or setting type / height etc etc etc. Think the IF grade was what initially grabbed us as didn't think we'd ever actually see one of these, but after some research on this forum (excellent I might add) I am assuming this is very likely not an IF diamond, so the allure of it is not as strong, it's convincing the fiancee of this that will be the problem!!

Turning it round another way then, for this ring in question (EGL D/IF one I mean) - what would you expect something like this to be priced at that would be "fair"? Are we talking something as far off as £2,500 to £3,000?

 

[hawk25]

OK so, let's train the newer posters who are trying to help.

Ah my apologies, thanks very much for helping clearing that up

 

[Gypsy]

Covert to Pounds:
Stone: 1260.97
Setting: 432.74
Total Price 1693.71 in pounds.

£4050 is what you paid/were offered.


DIFFERENCE OF: £2357

 

[Gypsy]

OK so, let's train the newer posters who are trying to help.

Ah my apologies, thanks very much for helping clearing that up

No problem. I REALLY love that you were trying to help. I just needed to show you how. Thanks!

 

[sumofallshearers]

Sorry again, I tried to post again there but it seems to have got "lost"!

I meant to make clear - I am actually living in the UK here, I know this site is USA based but it was such a mine of info just had to ask the question! Kinda wish I hadn't now, ignorance is bliss and all that.

Appears to be an incredible mark-up on all of these rings then, in the sense that generally, rings over here we've looked at with even something like F-I / SI1 still come in at around £2.5k - £3.5k, so I guess we'll get shafted on price regardless, but at least it's all relative?!! Flawed logic in there I think.

In the meantime, I suppose I can start working on getting them down from £4k to £1.5k....!!! I'll let you know how that one goes...!

 

[Gypsy]

Here's another way to do it. And probably the best.
This is the UK site for Blue Nile. VAT is listed at 20%

http://www.bluenile.com/uk/diamond-search?pt=setform&track=NavDiaSeaRD#diamonds_pid=LD04138081 £1,416
http://www.bluenile.com/uk/diamond-engagement-ring-setting-platinum_23185 £640
1416
640
------
2056
plus 20%
411.12
-----
2411.22


£4050

So you overpaid by £1639 including VAT AND THAT'S FOR AN GIA STONE (I didn't deduct the 10% for the EGL).

 

[Merefrank]

Sum, since you seem to be shopping together instead of planning a surprise, why don't you simply bring her to this site and have her read this post ? Everyone here has ME convinced !

Simply declaring that you won't buy the stone/ring online with out a good reason seems a little....silly, like when old people refuse to accept technology. The people here on PS are insanely knowledgeable and spend obscene amounts of money, they wouldn't steer you wrong and if it's good enough for them.... I mean would you take golf advice from Tiger Woods, or say "Thanks, but no" ?

The other really GREAT part of bringing her on here and having these folks help out is she can practically design the ring herself ! I have seen SO many designs I never would have thought of ! I'm betting she will be like a kid in a candy store and when she has the perfect ring for a fraction of what you would have paid on "High St", you both will be like " Thank God we found Price scope !"

Sorry if that was a little hyperbolic, LOL ! I am just so impressed with the people here and the amazing things they can, and do, to make other peoples dreams come true !

 

[Roxy]

OK so, let's train the newer posters who are trying to help.

Ah my apologies, thanks very much for helping clearing that up

No problem. I REALLY love that you were trying to help. I just needed to show you how. Thanks!

Hawk's not the only one who's watching and learning, so another big THANKS from me Gypsy! When you find PS and get tons of great info, you want to turn around and help everyone else who stumbles onto the site as well, it's absolutely infectious !!! So thanks for taking the time out to walk through the process.