Platinum Resize Shenanigans?

[warehouse]

We recently took my wife''s platinum engagement ring in to be resized. When we dropped it off they quoted a priced based on some kind of "laser resizing" and said that platinum was much more expensive than gold.

Today when they called to tell us that the ring was ready, they said that it was much cheaper because the ring was white gold and not platinum. Now we are confused. We were told that the ring was platinum when we bought it, even have the receipt from 12 year ago, and we have an appraisal that states that it was platinum based on a chemical test. The ring does state "18k" on the inside but we assumed that it was because of the gold trim around the setting area.

Now we are concerned that something fishy is going on. Is it possible that the jeweler can even mix gold with platinum? Is it possible that he skimmed some platinum and replaced it with gold for his own financial gain. What action should we take at this point? Should we take it to another jeweler for an independent assessment or insist that the current jeweler do something about it. If they indeed added gold to the platinum ring is any of this reversible?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The 18k stamped on the inside is a major red flag. Did the original jeweler do the appraisal where it was confirmed to be platinum? Is this the same jeweler or a different one? I''d have to have it checked out if it were me. But an independent appraiser would be best, not another jeweler. It is very doubful that the resizing cost would have been lowered for wg if the ring was not wg.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 9/22/2007 10:54:24 AM
Author:warehouse
We recently took my wife''s platinum engagement ring in to be resized. When we dropped it off they quoted a priced based on some kind of ''laser resizing'' and said that platinum was much more expensive than gold.

Today when they called to tell us that the ring was ready, they said that it was much cheaper because the ring was white gold and not platinum. Now we are confused. We were told that the ring was platinum when we bought it, even have the receipt from 12 year ago, and we have an appraisal that states that it was platinum based on a chemical test. The ring does state ''18k'' on the inside but we assumed that it was because of the gold trim around the setting area.

Now we are concerned that something fishy is going on. Is it possible that the jeweler can even mix gold with platinum? Is it possible that he skimmed some platinum and replaced it with gold for his own financial gain. What action should we take at this point? Should we take it to another jeweler for an independent assessment or insist that the current jeweler do something about it. If they indeed added gold to the platinum ring is any of this reversible?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

The amount of financial gain from skimming platinum off of a ring really wouldn''t be worth it I don''t think. The metal would have to be refined etc. and in order to have a quantity worth his while he''d have to be ripping off everyone and likely would have been caught by now. I would consult an appraiser.

 

[denverappraiser]

Get it appraised and ask the appraiser specifically to test the metal. In fact, ask them on the phone before you even go to the appointment to make sure that they can do this. It’s not really very hard but not everyone does every test if you don''t ask. If you haven’t had it look at in 12 years it’s about time anyway.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[warehouse]

Thanks for all of the quick responses. I just pulled my receipt from this store and it states that I purchased a "18Ky & Platinum semi mounted ring". I have an appraisal, not from the jeweler, but from a partner of the jeweler" that states that it''s a "lady''s white metal diamond ring, acid test indicating platinum"...

Assuming that this is correct then is it possible that the guy working on the ring just assumed that it was white gold and then just use wg as the filler to make the ring larger? Is it even possible using this laser technique to mix the two metals?

If this is what happened should I insist that they do something about it or just be happy that it looks good and I saved $100 on the resize?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 9/22/2007 12:27:40 PM
Author: warehouse
Thanks for all of the quick responses. I just pulled my receipt from this store and it states that I purchased a ''18Ky & Platinum semi mounted ring''. I have an appraisal, not from the jeweler, but from a partner of the jeweler'' that states that it''s a ''lady''s white metal diamond ring, acid test indicating platinum''...

Assuming that this is correct then is it possible that the guy working on the ring just assumed that it was white gold and then just use wg as the filler to make the ring larger? Is it even possible using this laser technique to mix the two metals?

If this is what happened should I insist that they do something about it or just be happy that it looks good and I saved $100 on the resize?

ahhhh more than likely the shank is 18k and the HEAD is platinum. I''d bet on it.

 

[warehouse]

ahhhh more than likely the shank is 18k and the HEAD is platinum. I''d bet on it.

If that the case then we''re probably hosed because it''s not like I can really complain about something that happened 12 years ago. I''m sure the statute of limitations has run out by now.

What''s funny is that the appraisal didn''t specify which part of the ring they tested. I would have assumed that they meant the shank.

Also, on my receipt where it states "18ky & Platinum" does the "y" mean yellow?

 

[denverappraiser]

Any jeweler working on the piece would know right away if it was platinum or white gold as soon as he touches it with his laser, torch or any other tool. They just don’t respond to the tools the same way. It is possible to weld 2 different metals together but it’s actually more difficult than just doing the job right in the first place. The fact that he told you it was WG and gave you a discount on the job as a result doesn’t support the idea that he was trying to rip you off.

I suspect the problem is in the test done 12 years ago. If the jeweler who did the appraisal (or his successors who are operating under the same name) is still around, ring the store up and talk to them about it. Since they sold the piece, they should be happy to defend the quality of their products with another test.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[warehouse]

Any jeweler working on the piece would know right away if it was platinum or white gold as soon as he touches it with his laser, torch or any other tool. They just don’t respond to the tools the same way. It is possible to weld 2 different metals together but it’s actually more difficult than just doing the job right in the first place. The fact that he told you it was WG and gave you a discount on the job as a result doesn’t support the idea that he was trying to rip you off.

I suspect the problem is in the test done 12 years ago. If the jeweler who did the appraisal (or his successors who are operating under the same name) is still around, ring the store up and talk to them about it. Since they sold the piece, they should be happy to defend the quality of their products with another test.

Make sense to me. I''m beginning to believe that the salesperson 12 years ago probably didn''t know the difference between platinum head and shank and that''s where the confusion is. It''s a little troubling to find out that we thought that we had platinum all this time only to find out that it was WG. We are heading to pick up the piece now so I''ll let you know how that goes.

BTW, this is the same jeweler as the one from 12 years ago!

Thanks again for all of the advice.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yeah, many times a gold ring will have a platinum head. With 18k stamped in the shank, I agree with Cehra that the ring is probably 18k wg with a platinum head. But one more question. Is the shank totally white, or does it have some yellow tint, or does it look dull gray? Have you ever had the shank polished or rhodium plated?

 

[warehouse]

UPDATE - So we just got back from picking up the ring at the store. They gave us the ring and said nothing about the wg vs. platinum issue. The ring looked great but we still wanted to find out the ground truth so we started asking questions about the sizing and the fact that the technician stated that the ring was 18k when our original sales receipt and appraisal showed platinum. They immediately brought over a manager and he told the salesperson that he had talked to someone this morning about the situation.

He informed us that he believes based on the original receipt and the acid test that the ring is indeed platinum and that the laser technician must have just read the 18k symbol and assumed that it was WG and expanded the ring with WG. Based on the information I got earlier from this post I really find that hard to believe. You experts tell me that anyone that does this for a living should know instantly if the ring is WG or Platinum.

At this point we stated that we were not paying for the current work and that we wanted to take the ring to an independent appraiser to find out if the ring was really platinum or gold, and then we could decide the next course of action. The manager seemed to get squirmy at this point but stated they would stand behind their products and that if we discovered that the ring was not platinum they would replace the ring with a platinum ring. If we discover that the ring is indeed platinum then they will have the laser guy replace the WG chunk that he took out with platinum.

I am somewhat happy with this response but I never received any apology from the manager and he seemed very nervous about the whole situation. I had this feeling that they knew something that I didn''t. I guess I''ll wait and see what happens with the new appraisal, but I''m not too excited about having the same technician doing the work if it needs done. I think that I''ll ask to have someone else do it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

If they can''t tell platinum from wg or else are concealing something, I''d start over with a new jeweler altogether. I don''t buy at all that they don''t know what metal the ring is! After 12 years, if it was white gold, it likely would have had to be rhodium plated or it would have had some very pale gold color showing. If it was platinum, it would have turned gray. So what did the shank look like before you took it in?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 9/22/2007 12:27:40 PM
Author: warehouse
Thanks for all of the quick responses. I just pulled my receipt from this store and it states that I purchased a ''18Ky & Platinum semi mounted ring''. I have an appraisal, not from the jeweler, but from a partner of the jeweler'' that states that it''s a ''lady''s white metal diamond ring, acid test indicating platinum''...

Assuming that this is correct then is it possible that the guy working on the ring just assumed that it was white gold and then just use wg as the filler to make the ring larger? Is it even possible using this laser technique to mix the two metals?

If this is what happened should I insist that they do something about it or just be happy that it looks good and I saved $100 on the resize?

The shank is yellow gold?
The 18Ky = 18 karat yellow gold.

It is normal that heads are platinum, and bands are white gold or yellow gold - it is a price and benefit option that many good jewellers use.

 

[warehouse]

The shank did and still looks shiny silver color to me. It has not turned gray nor does it appear as if there''s gold shining through. My belief if that it''s 18k WG and that there was some kind of mistake in the original sale. Although now that calls in to question the original appraisal which was done by the jeweler.

My wife is very upset about all of this and she really doesn''t want to get a new ring so once we figure out the ground truth we''ll work with the jeweler to come up with some kind of resolution.

Thanks again for all of the great advice and here''s a picture of the ring. BTW, the 18ky comment was made on the resizing sales slip and not the original sale.

Patrick

 

[diamondseeker2006]

If it hasn''t turned gray, then it surely is white gold. I don''t think platinum would look like that after 12 years unless it has been polished by a jeweler.

 

[warehouse]

It has always looked like that, and it hasn''t been polished. I will admit that it wasn''t worn everyday but based on the color of my ring, which is indeed platinum, I would tend to agree with you. Thanks for the opinion. If anything astonishing happens after the independent appraisal I''ll let you know. It will be interesting to see how the jeweler handles this.

 

[warehouse]

UPDATE - I had the ring tested and it doesn''t have a spec of platinum in it. Turns out that the shank is 18K WG and the head was 14K WG which was not indicated in the stamping.

I took this evidence to the original jeweler today and they backed off of their previous statement that they would replace the ring with a platinum one. Now they want to refund me the original purchase price. I explained that it isn''t exactly possible to replace my ring with a platinum based on prices from 13 years ago and asked if they would give me store credit for the equivalent ring in today''s prices. They stated that they had no way to estimate today''s prices since that style is no longer made.

I''m curious for an independent assessment of what a good resolution should be. I''m not looking to rip these guys off but it''s pretty sad that they stated that the ring was platinum when I bought it and their in-house appraiser said the same thereafter. This was compounded by the fact that three weeks ago they made me go out and get it tested when I''m pretty sure they knew at the time that it was WG. but wouldn''t admit it.

At this point my wife doesn''t even want a new ring because of the emotional attachment but we feel that there should be some type of compensation because we feel cheated, whether intentional or not!

 

[honey22]

What a mess. I find it very hard to believe that can''t determine the cost of the platinum in that ring. If you were a new customer, I am sure that if you took a loose stone and a sketch of the ring they would be able to quote you to design and set a new ring, so I don''t understand why they don''t know what it''s worth today. I think they are just giving you the runaround. I would get some estimates from another jeweller to get the stone reset in platinum and take this figure back to the original jewellers and ask for that amount refunded. If they can''t figure out the cost of platinum today, surely another jeweller can! Good luck!

 

[rainydaze]

wow, this situation really bites. so did they charge you for a platinum setting 12 years ago (and ripped you off then, IOW) or no, because the reciept does say 18ky? although, i just reread your thread and it also says platinum. so it looks like they may have played you back then?

i''ve been trying to think of what i would expect for a resolution, but i''m at a loss. no matter what i come up with, there are field professionals here who would know better than i what is appropriate, and i am anxious to hear what that is.

an apology would certainly be in order, and should accompany whatever resolution is reached. i''m sorry this happened and i hope you find a painless resolution!

 

[warehouse]

Yep - the ring was sold as platinum and I''m pretty sure that I paid the premium 13 years ago for platinum, although that was only about $300 difference at the time. Now it''s much more substantial. I think options are as follows, although they only want to do A.

A - Refund of the original purchase price

B - Get an estimate for a new similar ring in platinum and have that value refunded. Probably close to $2000 retail.

C - Get the difference in Platinum versus WG at today''s prices. The appraiser said this was around $1000.

I''m not sure what recourse I have at this point. I don''t think I could take action in a small claims court because it''s been over 3 years so I''m basically at their mercy. I could always take it to the BBB or threaten to take a full page ad in the local newspaper but I would rather settle this without dirty tricks.

My biggest gripe is that the manager hasn''t apologized once for the screwup, although he''s the nervous type and he doesn''t seem to know what to say at this point. If this was some other inanimate object I probably wouldn''t care so much but wedding rings have a much greater emotional value.

Thanks for all the previous and future advice on this topic!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, I am glad the mystery is cleared up. My feeling is that they owe you the difference in the price of a wg and platinum setting with interest from the year you bought the ring. Or, they can refund your purchase price with interest.

 

[denverappraiser]

You’ve got them over a barrel and they should be falling all over themselves to be cooperative with you. They misrepresented a sale and you’ve got proof in the form of a receipt, an appraisal and the ring itself. They owe you a platinum ring and a sniveling apology. If the manufacturer of the exact ring isn’t available or won’t make that one in platinum, they can have it custom made. They're a little late (13 years!) in delivering what you paid for but that doesn't absolve them of their responsibility.

A cash settlement (and an apology) would probably be cheaper and less painful for them and apparently more satisfactory to you so this does seem like the obvious route to a solution that works for everyone but something tells me that this manager doesn’t quite understand the pickle they are in. If you're not already talking to the owner or district manager, get ahold of them. Is this a large chain, a stand alone store or something in between?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[warehouse]

Niel - I agree with your assessment of the situation, unfortunately they don''t seem to be as concerned as I think they should. I was surprised that they were willing to talk about this out in the open with me as other customers were browsing in the store. I would have tried to pull me aside so that no one else heard that they were passing off gold rings as platinum.

They are a small family owned outfit and I believe that the guy I was dealing with is the manager but I think that he is the son or related to the owner. I guess I can ask to talk to the real owner.

So do you think that I should take a refund of the original purchase price or should I try to negotiate something more. Obviously the original purchase price would not replace the current ring in platinum but of course if they did replace it in platinum they would get the old gold ring back so it''s more like they owe me the difference.

This whole thing disgusts me and the simple fact they aren''t apologizing makes it even worse.

 

[denverappraiser]

It depends on your temperament for this sort of thing. The standard in most courts is the amount of time since the problem was discovered, not since it occurred so you’ll be well within the time limits. It’s worth noting that it sounds like your wife doesn’t want to replace the ring anyway so this whole argument is over a thousand bucks or so, quite possibly less. I read over some of your prior posts. The sales invoice said 18k&platinum and your current appraisal says 18k&14k. The difference is a platinum head, not a platinum ring although all of the same issues apply. That may be worth pushing for but it’s not worth losing a lot of sleep over. You’ve got a ring that she loves, and she’s loved it for 13 years. Worse things could happen.

The BBB can sometimes be helpful in this sort of situation but, assuming you get to keep the ring, I would probably just take the money and get on with my life. That really is a pretty reasonable offer. If the offer includes that you have to give them the ring I wouldn’t do it. If you want a platinum head and they refuse to do it, find someone else to put it on and sue them for the cost or just eat the loss. It’s usually not all that expensive a job and when you find someone who treats you right you'll know where to go next time you need something.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[warehouse]

Just to clarify. The 18K + platinum on the receipt was for the 2-tone ring (see picture). We were told that the shank and head were platinum and the small section around the accent diamonds was 18k. Their in-store appraiser said the same thing (that the ring and head were platinum, and the accent gold was 18k). So it seems to me that it''s more than just the head replacement.

We''ll probably go back to the store this weekend and see if there''s something else my wife likes there, otherwise we''ll settle for some kind of reasonable cash settlement since I think that it would be too much pain to take them to court.


Thanks for all of the advice!