shape
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Pink stone

Double E

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
317
How do you rate this pink sapphire?
Looks hot pink in photo, though I understand one still photo can’t tell much. It’s vivid pink on the AGL cert, $590. Will this be considered a good buy? Or... priced too low for a top hot pink in this size? BD97A9F0-C5B1-4020-99E8-941D1CD7A3CA.jpeg 6D88B829-1F79-4287-962F-20D01C00B299.jpeg
 
Last edited:

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,920
The first thing I would do is make sure the stone comes from an independent reputable lab, of which I've never heard of this particular AGL lab, not to be confused with the other AGL called American Gemological Lab in NY, USA.

So I tried to find this particular AGL (Antwerp Gemological Lab) and found this:
Looks like an ok website with a verification page but for some reason the contact page for me is blank.
 

Double E

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
317
The first thing I would do is make sure the stone comes from an independent reputable lab, of which I've never heard of this particular AGL lab, not to be confused with the other AGL called American Gemological Lab in NY, USA.

So I tried to find this particular AGL (Antwerp Gemological Lab) and found this:
Looks like an ok website with a verification page but for some reason the contact page for me is blank.


Thanks for pointing out the lab concern! The CS world is just complex. I should have been more detail minded.

how do you think about the price? Assume it’s really a hot vivid pink sapphire, of this size, is the price normal?
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,920
Too late to edit now but I want to correct my text. I meant to say:
Make sure the stone is accompanied by a lab memo from an independent reputable lab.

I did not mean to say stones are sold by labs. :lol:

I think $590 for an untreated intensely hot pink 1.2 ct sapphire is suspicious, which is why I took a closer look at the lab memo.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
4,547
I bought this untreated pink sapphire this year, similarly a 7x5 pear, which DID come with a reputable lab report, and directly from Ceylon, for about $625 with store discounts. This is not the best pic of it, but it's the only one I could find before I put it away. I cannot think of any vendor from whom I could have bought this sapphire for any less money than I paid for it, and the saturation is vivid, just not hot hot pink. PXL_20210304_181738490.jpg
So the AGL that's not the reputable American lab, and the $590 price makes it suspect in my eyes. Either the photos had been doctored, or the stone has had undisclosed treatment.
 

Double E

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
317
Too late to edit now but I want to correct my text. I meant to say:
Make sure the stone is accompanied by a lab memo from an independent reputable lab.

I did not mean to say stones are sold by labs. :lol:

I think $590 for an untreated intensely hot pink 1.2 ct sapphire is suspicious, which is why I took a closer look at the lab memo.

Don’t worry I accurately got what you mean~

As for the relatively low price tag like this stone, could it be that the stone seller is close to the mine or rough supplier, which eliminates layers of middle men?
 

Double E

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
317
I bought this untreated pink sapphire this year, similarly a 7x5 pear, which DID come with a reputable lab report, and directly from Ceylon, for about $625 with store discounts. This is not the best pic of it, but it's the only one I could find before I put it away. I cannot think of any vendor from whom I could have bought this sapphire for any less money than I paid for it, and the saturation is vivid, just not hot hot pink. PXL_20210304_181738490.jpg
So the AGL that's not the reputable American lab, and the $590 price makes it suspect in my eyes. Either the photos had been doctored, or the stone has had undisclosed treatment.
You’ve got a lovely pink stone^^ on a good price too!

For the one I post, the vendor actually have a video which shows the same colour, is that video is harder to edit in the aim to improve the colour shown? Just that the clip is with their company name and on their IG, I don’t feel comfortable and respectful post it here to disclose the vendor at the current status of our discussion.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,896
I’m suspect of the lab.

I don’t believe it’s based in Antwerp, and they’re obviously trying to use an acronym identical to the top tier gem lab, “American Gemological Laboratories.”

I personally would not purchase a pink sapphire without a more well known lab.
 

Ionysis

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 1, 2015
Messages
766
If it comes from an IG seller who is based in country of origin I can see how that price would be reasonable. It’s not far off what I’d pay for a similar stone. And the clarity doesn’t look great frankly so I wouldn’t expect to be charged more for it.

BUT I only buy from sellers I know and trust. If you’ve bought from this vendor before, or have a recommendation from someone who has, then it’s not priced too good to be true. Necessarily. But if it’s a new vendor with no track record that you’ve never heard of before I’d be concerned.

Also agree with the others about the lab report...
 

PrecisionGem

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
1,778
This idea of stones be much less expensive in the country of origin is not exactly accurate. I have been to Africa several times, and the prices there are not much different than what I can buy rough stones sitting home. I have even seen dealers from Africa, at the Tucson shows buying African rough to take back home and resell at a profit.
 

Ionysis

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 1, 2015
Messages
766
It’s usually a question of hand offs. Every pair of hands a stone passed through adds a margin. Closer to source usually means less intermediaries taking a cut. Basic economics. That doesn’t mean there aren’t exceptions - but logic dictates the majority of stones are going to be less expensive from source.

And clearly it depends if you have the contacts or relationships.
 

PrecisionGem

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
1,778
It’s usually a question of hand offs. Every pair of hands a stone passed through adds a margin. Closer to source usually means less intermediaries taking a cut. Basic economics. That doesn’t mean there aren’t exceptions - but logic dictates the majority of stones are going to be less expensive from source.

And clearly it depends if you have the contacts or relationships.

Most stones are not cut and sold from the source. Much material is purchased by large dealers from China and Bangkok who do the cutting in their own countries. Sapphires rough from Sri Lanka is not allowed to be taken out of the country, so all that material is cut in Sri Lanka, but not at the mines. Most of the sapphire from Madagascar is purchased by Sri Lankans, and then brought back to Sri Lanka and cut.

I have been out in the bush in Africa, and offered stones there for basically the same price I can buy them from US rough dealers. Very low quality stones can be purchased at low prices, but anyone with top material knows what they are worth. It's very very very very to see a nice stone offered anywhere for a bargain price. Even deep in the bush they have cell phones, and anyone in this business knows what the value of their stones are.

In many countries it is not legal for miners to sell material except through a dealer in that country. The stones are regulated, and recorded with the Ministry's of mining or natural resources. When I go to Africa, I have to work with a local dealer. If I were to buy directly from a miner I could end up in a lot trouble. So you work with a registered dealer, then the parcel is inspected by the government, and a tax is paid on what is being exported. The parcel is then sealed and can legally be taken out of the country.

IMG_1677.JPG
 

Ionysis

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 1, 2015
Messages
766
I suppose it depends on the stones and the source. Most of what I buy is corundum, beryl, tourmaline and spinel originating from Sri Lanka, Madagascar, Thailand and Pakistan. I don’t generally buy anything from Africa. Even the online vendors I’ve looked at have prices which are unappealing for me so I can well believe what you’re saying about sourcing from that region.

The same however does not hold true about the regions I buy from, in my personal experience. It’s far cheaper to purchase from the geographies I mention above for the stones I collect than to buy from anywhere in Europe or the US in general.

But I am talking as a private individual not a member of the Trade. So the experiences of a professional buyer May clearly vary from a personal collector.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
5,292
Apparently the lab is run out of Sri Lanka not Antwerp and this name Antwerp Gemological Laboratory gives them the acronym ”AGL” which is very similar to the very reputable and very well regarded American Gemological Laboratory.
No coincidence there!
The ”AGL” website is extremely sparse so I wouldn’t trust the accuracy of the report. It might be corundum but it could be flux filled, BE treated or with significant fissures that will affect suitability for setting / wearing.
So while $590 would be a great price for a fissure free unheated pink sapphire, $590 would be way too much for a highly treated and/or unstable pink sapphire.
 

Double E

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
317
I’m suspect of the lab.

I don’t believe it’s based in Antwerp, and they’re obviously trying to use an acronym identical to the top tier gem lab, “American Gemological Laboratories.”

I personally would not purchase a pink sapphire without a more well known lab.

Sounds like a sign of red flag, will be cautious.
 

Double E

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
317
If it comes from an IG seller who is based in country of origin I can see how that price would be reasonable. It’s not far off what I’d pay for a similar stone. And the clarity doesn’t look great frankly so I wouldn’t expect to be charged more for it.

BUT I only buy from sellers I know and trust. If you’ve bought from this vendor before, or have a recommendation from someone who has, then it’s not priced too good to be true. Necessarily. But if it’s a new vendor with no track record that you’ve never heard of before I’d be concerned.

Also agree with the others about the lab report...

I not sure if This IG seller is based in Sri Lanka, I have been confused however by the location shown by different IG posts by them, with some of them in Singapore, Colombo while sometimes it’s Hong Kong!

As for the clarity of the said stone, I did see some inclusion through their video. But I am really not sure if the impression of relatively poor clarity ( very understandable) is due to those inclusion or it’s vivid colour. It’s hard to judge.
 

Double E

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
317
Apparently the lab is run out of Sri Lanka not Antwerp and this name Antwerp Gemological Laboratory gives them the acronym ”AGL” which is very similar to the very reputable and very well regarded American Gemological Laboratory.
No coincidence there!
The ”AGL” website is extremely sparse so I wouldn’t trust the accuracy of the report. It might be corundum but it could be flux filled, BE treated or with significant fissures that will affect suitability for setting / wearing.
So while $590 would be a great price for a fissure free unheated pink sapphire, $590 would be way too much for a highly treated and/or unstable pink sapphire.

Thanks and I get it a few hundreds is not that big money but obviously not something to waste too.

For this “AGL”, according to what a number of you folks here said, is not one of the reputable one and not representative enough for a gem’s quality right? There’s much to learn~
 

fredflintstone

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Messages
341
This idea of stones be much less expensive in the country of origin is not exactly accurate. I have been to Africa several times, and the prices there are not much different than what I can buy rough stones sitting home. I have even seen dealers from Africa, at the Tucson shows buying African rough to take back home and resell at a profit.

But you know Gene, they see you coming at Tuscon. I never bought from a gem show. Prices are to high.

Of course I bought only faceted stones. Not rough.
 

Double E

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
317
Thanks everyone who take time replying to this thread, both the experienced consumers and professionals in the trade:) you guys really give me much insight!
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
4,332
I suppose it depends on the stones and the source. Most of what I buy is corundum, beryl, tourmaline and spinel originating from Sri Lanka, Madagascar, Thailand and Pakistan. I don’t generally buy anything from Africa. Even the online vendors I’ve looked at have prices which are unappealing for me so I can well believe what you’re saying about sourcing from that region.

The same however does not hold true about the regions I buy from, in my personal experience. It’s far cheaper to purchase from the geographies I mention above for the stones I collect than to buy from anywhere in Europe or the US in general.

But I am talking as a private individual not a member of the Trade. So the experiences of a professional buyer May clearly vary from a personal collector.

Second this
 

PrecisionGem

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
1,778
But you know Gene, they see you coming at Tuscon. I never bought from a gem show. Prices are to high.

Of course I bought only faceted stones. Not rough.

Maybe you have not been to the right shows in Tucson, nor met the right dealers. Many of the Tucson shows are quite different from those smaller traveling shows you see pop up all over the USA.
 

fredflintstone

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Messages
341
Maybe you have not been to the right shows in Tucson, nor met the right dealers. Many of the Tucson shows are quite different from those smaller traveling shows you see pop up all over the USA.

Just to give you an example.

When top Purple Rhodolite (Mozambique) came out many at Tuson it was selling it up to $450.00 a carat. I was selling at about $250.00 for the same quality per stone, one at a time. No, I don't find no real deals in Tuscon. I much rather be at the source, or Thailand, not the source coming to me.

May be different for rough, but not cut stones.
 

Double E

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
317
This idea of stones be much less expensive in the country of origin is not exactly accurate. I have been to Africa several times, and the prices there are not much different than what I can buy rough stones sitting home. I have even seen dealers from Africa, at the Tucson shows buying African rough to take back home and resell at a profit.

Dealer buying roughs from Tucson instead of their home country sounds strange, that may say something.
It’s usually a question of hand offs. Every pair of hands a stone passed through adds a margin. Closer to source usually means less intermediaries taking a cut. Basic economics. That doesn’t mean there aren’t exceptions - but logic dictates the majority of stones are going to be less expensive from source.

And clearly it depends if you have the contacts or relationships.

Logically yes. But as I read through you wonderful guys / ladies' discussion, it sounds really depends which makes us inexperienced consumers's life difficult and left us no clues.
 

Double E

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
317
Most stones are not cut and sold from the source. Much material is purchased by large dealers from China and Bangkok who do the cutting in their own countries. Sapphires rough from Sri Lanka is not allowed to be taken out of the country, so all that material is cut in Sri Lanka, but not at the mines. Most of the sapphire from Madagascar is purchased by Sri Lankans, and then brought back to Sri Lanka and cut.

I have been out in the bush in Africa, and offered stones there for basically the same price I can buy them from US rough dealers. Very low quality stones can be purchased at low prices, but anyone with top material knows what they are worth. It's very very very very to see a nice stone offered anywhere for a bargain price. Even deep in the bush they have cell phones, and anyone in this business knows what the value of their stones are.

In many countries it is not legal for miners to sell material except through a dealer in that country. The stones are regulated, and recorded with the Ministry's of mining or natural resources. When I go to Africa, I have to work with a local dealer. If I were to buy directly from a miner I could end up in a lot trouble. So you work with a registered dealer, then the parcel is inspected by the government, and a tax is paid on what is being exported. The parcel is then sealed and can legally be taken out of the country.

IMG_1677.JPG

Thanks Gene. Definitely happy to know more and deeper inside the trade and from other parts of the world. BTW, your pink sapphires from Madagascar are beautiful. Actually some parti sapphires from Nigeria also speak to me, there are good sources there (a bit off topic)~
 

Double E

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
317
In continuing this thread, and for anyone who’s interested, how is pink sapphires’ rarity rated? Is a hot / neon vivid pink sapphire considered rare? A common story which is easily found on the Internet is pink sapphire is more rarer before the Madagascar deposit’s found.

While it is said that the origin for pink sapphire is not as important or price influential, are there hue or shades which are exclusive to particular origins?
 
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