Piano experts - buying baby grand piano

[PintoBean]

Now that we have a bigger space, I think it's time to pull the bandaid off and get serious about purchasing a piano.

Budget - $10K-20K. I would like to stay closer to $10k.

Size - less than 6 feet in length, if I recall correctly, is the space I have, lengthwise.

I had a kawai upright as a child - didn't like how the keys felt "light".
My parents traded that in with the piano tuner for an Otto Altenburg, used, early 90s. I liked how the keys felt - similar to my teacher's Steinway. It's too large to fit in my home or else my mom would have given it to me She said it's bigger than the usual grand - perhaps a concert grand? I am Jon Snow right now... I know nothing...

I would love to hear brand and model recommendations.
Also, if you know of any good vendors in the tri-state area of NY, NJ and CT, I would love vendor recommendations as well.

I was just looking at this website: pianotek.com

 

[TooPatient]

Hopefully Kenny sees this.

I know there are a few more (at least) piano experts.

Sorry I can't help. I played some beautiful pianos but they were either $$$$ or not so good. One day I would love to have a nice (but not $$$) piano. Looking forward to the advice and also how you like whatever you choose!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Mason & Hamlin
Bösendorfer

 

[Scarlett1]

Pinto you need to go hunting with someone who plays and knows their stuff, pianos vary so much, and individuals like different tones/actions. Someone in the know will be able to get you the best bang for your buck. I'd be very reluctant to buy a piano without playing it.

 

[Harpertoo]

we have a Steinway M and we love it. (170cm I think)
It really doesn't seem too big, although it's always a consideration when we've moved.
good luck w/ the selection. (disclaimer - I'm not an expert - just enjoy our piano.)

 

[PintoBean]

I managed to find a piano forum - pianoworld. A lot of the posts are a bit dated, or maybe current enough for that industry? I've come to realize that Pricescope has spoiled me - I was expecting to find the PS equivalent for pianos!

One store mentioned was Faust harrison.

And my mom... lolol... she tells me to "search for a big piano warehouse in NJ. That's where we got your first piano when we moved to NY." I gulp... did actually google "piano warehouse NJ". It wasn't very helpful.

I found another thread where they suggested a NYer go visit Altenburg in Elizabeth, NJ. I perused their website, saw a piano that "looked" attractive and had a call for price, so I figured I would call and check them out. I spoke to a 6th generation Altenburg. Very nice man. He spent a lot of time on the phone with me... This is where it gets funky (in a good way!). The first piano - a Kawai upright - that came from "the big piano warehouse in NJ" was later traded in with the piano tuner for an Otto Altenburg! That is Altenburg's private label piano! What a coinkydink! I also mention to him that my mom keeps telling me to go check out this big piano warehouse in NJ, and he goes, it's probably us - up till two years ago (recession), we had an 11 story warehouse here in Elizabeth, NJ.

After I get off the phone with him, I call my mom up and tell her that I saw an interesting piano on their website, called them up, they gave me a price that was below my budget. I mention that they also are the same altenburg as that stenciled on her grand piano. And NOW she goes, oh yeah, are they in Elizabeth? That's where the warehouse was. WHAT? NOW you tell me the city in NJ? Yes mom, this place is in fact in Elizabeth, NJ. And then she goes, yeah, I remember it had lots and lots of floors. Geez... thanks for all the details after the fact!

Sooo.... I think that it's meant to be that I check this place out on Saturday. Maybe we get a repeat customer discount, too! Hey sir - we were here 30 years ago...

What initially was a very stressful situation with mom is turning into a very exciting hunt!

 

[partgypsy]

Glad for you to have that. Sounds promising!
Just because you had 1 upright that you did not like, doesn't mean that there is not an upright out there that you would not love to own for your price range. I would go in with an open mind and try (play) both uprights and baby grands in the area you can afford. I'm sure Kenny can give you more information, and I also recommend the forum that others have posted.
Where I am, both major universities have an annual sale of pianos. They sell both the "used" (1 year old) pianos used the their practice rooms, but also sell new pianos in a huge range of prices. I don't know if they have something like that in your area.

eta when I bought my (upright) piano the piano I bought I liked how it sounded and it was reasonable. If I had an extra 7 grand (lol) there was a Yamaha grand that sounded very good. Personally I don't think I would ever get a grand simply because of space issues, and if I ever moved. It's a commitment.

 

[PintoBean]

University sales! I was searching yesterday for a uni sale. It makes me chuckle a bit - I swear I used to hear ads on the radio about Uni XYZ having a Steinway and Sons sale. Now that I am finally ready to purchase, crickets...

I think that the 13 year old me had the bias against the upright. I think I also didn't like it back then because of the middle pedal not being a sostenuto.

36 year old Pinto Bean is not as picky and wants a good piano, not a mind-blowing concert grand piano. And I have cats. My parents' cat gnawed on a corner of the grand piano. My mom judged her guilty because she was the only one that laid on the piano. AHAHAHA... And truth be told, I know that there is a possibility that the piano becomes more of a "picture frame" piano (picked that up from the piano forum), just like my parents' piano, complete with table cloth and picture frames and faux flowers atop. LOLOL!

I'm really hoping that it will be more than a picture frame piano though. Being in a new home, working from home... I really need hobbies. My dream is to gather a few people, say once a month, hold a little salon, have some discourse, and demonstrate a piece we have learned.

 

[chrono]

If you want good but not mind blowing, Steinways are probably not for you. Lovely sound and action but to me, they are overpriced for the quality. University sales are good, as are some places that sell used pianos. Just test them all out. The action can be changed to a certain degree. The Asian pianos (Chinese, Japanese, etc) tend to be bright but have good action. The Chinese made pianos still show quality issues to me. A good Kawai might suit your needs.

 

[PintoBean]

I think that I am leaning towards Kawai and Yamaha, but am keeping my mind open to other brands.

Bonus if I find a used white piano! That was my dream as a little girl - white grand piano. My mom balked at it - how gauche! HAHAHAHA!

I'm open to any color, though... I'm hoping to find the equivalent of a certified used Toyota Corolla. Historically reliable, good car, low maintenance, not bank breaking... The luxury car equivalent piano will come only after (if and when) we upgrade the house.

 

[chrono]

I find the Yamaha too bright and the Kawai a bit more mellow. That said, the Yahama have consistently better key action for fast pieces where I need to play the same note repeatedly. Some Yamahas are better than others though; I stay away from those made in Indonesia as the quality isn't as good.

 

[Scarlett1]

Ha ha, digging that white piano idea , or how about this to add some more bling to your collection;


I personally adore Kawai's for their warmth. My husbands brand of choice is yamaha for their brightness and quick action. I suppose it depends the style of playing you enjoy more. My mother has a concert grand Steinway which is to die for, but we only have space for an upright which is very frustrating as you def don't get the same quality of sound with an upright vs grand IMO.

A university sale is a brilliant idea. Even dropping an email could be worth a shot. My mothers university were recently donated 7 steinways from an anonymous donor, thought I'd share a pick of her and her colleagues performing a recital with them

 

[PintoBean]

Ha ha, digging that white piano idea , or how about this to add some more bling to your collection;


I personally adore Kawai's for their warmth. My husbands brand of choice is yamaha for their brightness and quick action. I suppose it depends the style of playing you enjoy more. My mother has a concert grand Steinway which is to die for, but we only have space for an upright which is very frustrating as you def don't get the same quality of sound with an upright vs grand IMO.

A university sale is a brilliant idea. Even dropping an email could be worth a shot. My mothers university were recently donated 7 steinways from an anonymous donor, thought I'd share a pick of her and her colleagues performing a recital with them

Ermagherd that piano I feel like its stage name is Sparklicious, but it's a "Spanky" behind closed doors because a blingy piano is just so...naughty!

 

[PintoBean]

We brought mom along today. It was like reliving my wedding dress purchase nightmare... Where the first dress I put on was the one that DH and I both loved, and mom said... Meh... And the little 78 year old sales rep winked at me and said just humor her and proceeded to pull 20 dresses... And then she goes, watch this, puts me in the satin version of my lace dress, and mom goes, oh, that shape is nice, and the sales lady exclaims, it's the SAME dress, but in satin, puts me back in the first choice dress, and mom goes, oh yeah, that IS nice! but I kinda got over it because she treated us to the dress purchase.

So... We enter the piano store, and this cute little 84 year old man who just puts my 64 year old mom to shame with his mental dexterity shows us around. I see that white piano I had seen on their website and OMG it's actually ivory! Swoon! Mom glances at it and goes, meh... It's not gorgeous like the one at home. It doesn't have that ... And points at the edges. Pauses, turns to her left, and says in her native tongue, oh THAT'S cute! Cute piano has a beveled edge. Sigh... Bc the most important part of the piano is the beveled edge. Oh and it's black and black = gorgeous.

So we go around the store, and I get lots of that's cute that's cute that's cute. I try my best not to lose my mind. I've narrowed it to two potential pianos... And somehow we make it back to the ivory piano and mom goes, OMG, now that I look at it some more, it IS gorgeous and would look gorgeous in your house. I listen to the owner play the piano and I love how it sounds. An aside...I also have learned that bright sounding pianos hurt my ears, and make me think of digital pianos.

My hesitation with the Ivory piano was that it didn't have a slow close lid... I have two kitties and because of them, I even installed slow close toilet seats where I could!

It is a Yamaha GH1, and I had read some not so great reviews of this model, and the middle pedal is not a true sostenuto, but a bass sostenuto. For me, In this case, the piano being used made me feel more at ease because hells, they had 20+ years to break it in and man, it was immaculate inside and out, and I loved the tone and sound. And frankly, it is going to get very light use on my end. Unless I win lotto and quit my job.

Anyways, long story short, at $5,000, it was a perfect compromise of cost versus shortcomings and intended usage. And with kitties, the color is great because it doesn't show dust as readily.

Pinto Bean as a little girl is dying because she's always wanted a white piano like Liberace.

And the color matches the furniture in the room... Bonus! Off white dining room table, and grayish white distressed oak Louis chairs with cocoa velvet.

 

[amc80]

Congrats!! It's fun having a piano. I don't even play (I can read music and stumble through easy stuff, that's about it) and I still enjoy it. My brother inherited our grandfather's M&H. It's circa 1920 or so and is just beautiful. Unfortunately for him, he's a bit of a drifter (a true musician) so I am "watching" it for him. Which basically means I'll have it forever. We just bought a house that has a formal living area, perfect place for it. I am thinking about taking lessons. Maybe I'll wait until B is only enough and we can learn (properly) together.

 

[PintoBean]

Piano was delivered today, yay! Gave myself a minor heart attack when I lowered the lid and couldn't handle the weight and it made a bit of a not so pleasant thud noise I did try my best to lower as gently as possible until my arms and hands couldn't manage anymore. This is where I appreciated the piano being preloved and priced accordingly. Had it been brand spanking new, I would have dropped dead!

Anyways, after the movers left, I played a song and headed back upstairs to my laptop. As soon as I sat down I heard a couple keys played on the piano! I guess kitty #1 wanted to test out the new piano!

 

[kenny]

Yeah, spammers suck!
I did not click on his link.

He's right, however.
Steinway can't compete with Fazioli, or with C. Bechstein, Steingraeber & Sohne, Bösendorder, Blüthner, Grotrian, August Förster, or Mason and Hamlin.

But Steinway does make the best piano MARKETING in the world.

Before buying a new or used piano you MUST read this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Piano-Book-Buying-Owning-Used/dp/1929145012

 

[PintoBean]

Yeah, spammers suck!
I did not click on his link.

He's right, however.
Steinway can't compete with Fazioli, or with C. Bechstein, Steingraeber & Sohne, Bösendorder, Blüthner, Grotrian, August Förster, or Mason and Hamlin.

But Steinway does make the best piano MARKETING in the world.

Before buying a new or used piano you MUST read this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Piano-Book-Buying-Owning-Used/dp/1929145012

I totes bought that book - I think it was recommended on piano world. I also totes didn't get around to reading it lololol!

 

[kenny]

Sorry, I don't recall.
Who/What is "totes"?

 

[PintoBean]

Sorry, I don't recall.
Who/What is "totes"?

My bad - totes is short for totally.

 

[Karl_K]

My bad - totes is short for totally.

wow Kenny you didn't know that???
I so didn't have a clue either.
grumble grumble youngsters these days.......

 

[Karl_K]

I can not let my wifey read this she misses her piano she had at her parents house.

 

[kenny]

My bad - totes is short for totally.

Oh.
I thought totes was a brand of small umbrellas.

I need to get out more.

 

[kenny]

I can not let my wifey read this she misses her piano she had at her parents house.

Today used pianos are easy to come by for free.
Moving it, however, will cost you a couple hundred bucks in my neck of the woods.

That book I linked to above shows you how to evaluate a used piano.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Before buying a new or used piano you MUST read this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Piano-Book-Buying-Owning-Used/dp/1929145012

I have the 3rd edition of this book and the 96-97 supplement ,so if any PSer wanted it for free please let me know.

 

[Karl_K]

Today used pianos are easy to come by for free.
Moving it, however, will cost you a couple hundred bucks in my neck of the woods.

That book I linked to above shows you how to evaluate a used piano.

A buddy of mine has brought home 5 or 6 free used pianos for his wife and they all have warped sound boards and were basically fire wood.
We also dont have room :{

 

[arkieb1]

I have an Antique baby grand I bought that my husband, genius that he is, (because he had restored Antique furniture before) assured me he could pull apart to help restore. I explained to him he would have to take it to someone and do it quickly, or get a professional in the help. Many years later that piano now has a cracked and warped soundboard and is basically still in pieces and is firewood in the shed. Moral of that story do not let husband or anyone else talk you into fixing or restoring a piano. Always get a professional to do it.

I now have a Walnut upright Antique Bechstein in the house (piano no.2) that came out of a closing convent, which was originally a gift so the nuns could play it. It's in better condition than piano No.1 now referred to as BGF (baby grand firewood) not BFG (the film or book) in the shed....

I think you are supposed to let the piano settle a few weeks and then have someone come and tune it. Chrono and Kenny might know more about that than me.

 

[kenny]

A buddy of mine has brought home 5 or 6 free used pianos for his wife and they all have warped sound boards and were basically fire wood.
We also dont have room :{

Ah yes.
I've heard piano pros have a name for those pianos, Landfill Pianos.
The cases are often beautiful and people just can't throw them away.
Those 5 or 6 could have been converted into desks, aquariums or liquor cabinets.

Pianos last about as long as human bodies
Even then the lifespan of both depends on how well we maintain them.
Unfortunately both are often neglected.

A century ago there were zillions of piano makers in America.
Pianos were as common in homes as radios became, then it was TVs, then computers.
Learning to play takes years of hard work.
Kids today would rather get instant gratification via video games, Snapchat, etc.

Pianos are still magical things to many, however.
Many are kept around long after they should have been laid to rest.
Often they are "donated" for a tax deduction to some unsuspecting church or parent.
Today very few are worth keeping to be used as musical instruments because they were made by the best makers of the best materials, lived in climate-controled homes, and got regular tuning and maintenance.

Again, The Piano Book is chock full of consumer-protection info on how to evaluate an old piano which would have protected your buddy from 5 disappointments.

 

[kenny]

I now have a Walnut upright Antique Bechstein in the house (piano no.2) that came out of a closing convent, which was originally a gift so the nuns could play it. It's in better condition than piano No.1 now referred to as BGF (baby grand firewood) not BFG (the film or book) in the shed....

I think you are supposed to let the piano settle a few weeks and then have someone come and tune it. Chrono and Kenny might know more about that than me.

Wow.
Bechstein is tip top quality!
BUT, time and neglect kills the best pianos too so the first penny you spend should be an evaluation by a good reliable hontest piano tech to learn if it worth fixing up or even tuning.
Go to PTG.org to find a tech in your zip code.
Call around to local colleges/universities piano teachers for recommendations.
Actually The Piano Book will teach you how to find fatal flaws, like a cracked plate or a pinblock that is no longer gripping the tuning pins.

If so, give it 6 weeks to adjust to it's new environment before tuning ... but first make sure it's located well.
Location: not in the path of drafts from windows, doors, heater/AC vents.
Not where the sunlight touches it in summer or winter.
Not near a fireplace, bathroom, kitchen, aquarium, exterior wall of a poorly-insulated house in extreme climate, etc.

It may need a 'pitch raise' if it's far out of tune ... that costs extra.
Perhaps expect broken strings, expensive to replace.
Even then, new strings stretch and go flat so expect to call the tuner back a few times.

The further out of tune it is the more it will settle after being tuned.
This isn't your tuner's fault.
It may be so flat and have so much rust on the strings that it should not be brought up to concert pitch, A-440 Hz.
Many broken strings or even structural damage may result.

Good luck.
A Bechstein is a treasure.
It's one of the few brands worth sinking lots of money into if you want to do a partial or full restoration.

 

[arkieb1]

The baby grand was a decent piano too, it came out of a professional dance studio. The Bechstein was a gift to a convent but it was a cheque from a wealthy person who died, and they bought it themselves new maintained it for decades, loved it and played it. Then the nuns got old, retired and the piano didn't get a lot of attention, they sold it to a lady that actually was a student at the private school where they nuns and the piano were, she moved overseas and sold it to me. She had some work done to it and in truth it could do with a lot more money spent on it. IMHO Antique pianos are like black hole money pits to keep going but they look and can sound lovely.