Pear help...I''m really confused!!!

[newring4me]

Please tell me if you think this pear diamond would be ok to purchase. I never new anything about tables and depths until I started reading your forum and now I am worried. It is an SI2 but is "eye clean" supposedly. I have an round SI3 (EGL) and its eye clean so I''m ok with that.

Center Diamond Cut:
PEAR SHAPE
Depth %:
64.7%
Table %:
63.0%
Certificate:
EGL
Polish:
GOOD
Symmetry:
VERY GOOD
Color:
D
Carat Weight:
1.55ct
Clarity:
SI2
Dimensions of Loose Diamond:
9.92 - 6.40 x 4.14mm

Thanks!!!

 

[neatfreak]

A few things:

1. EGL is often a few color or clarity grades off. Make sure you are ok with paying the amount of $ you''re paying for something that is very possibly an I1 G or the like.

2. Fancy shapes really really really need Idealscopes and pictures at the LEAST before we can recommend that you purchase it. Get those, bring them back, then we can give you some useful advice.

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome!

Pears can be tricky to judge by the numbers, your own eyes along with ASET and or an Idealscope image from the vendor is very useful along with a photo of the diamond. Which branch of EGL is it? EGL USA are said to be the strongest out of the EGL labs for grading, overseas EGL is thought to be less so. EGL labs include EGL Europe, Antwerp, Israel etc so that would be useful to know. An independant appraisal is often prudent to make sure the colour and clarity check out, generally speaking, EGL graded diamonds carry a lower pricetag than GIA or AGS. Also the appraisal is most important if having a D colour is crucial for you, a D carries a premium so you want to make sure it is and you get what you pay for. Likewise with clarity. Fancy cuts can have very different personalities and aren't predictable by the numbers, it is important that the diamond 'speaks' to you and that you choose a vendor with a good return policy in case it doesn't.

 

[chrono]

I would never buy a fancy cut (pear shapes included) diamond without seeing it in person. The numbers alone will not tell you anything. The numbers look fine but I can't tell if the stone will look great or if it is a dud. Do you have an Idealscope? This handy and inexpensive device ($25) will show you the light leakage of the stone, thereby telling you if the stone is a "wow" stone or a poorly cut stone.

Ask the vendor for the following:
1. A magnified picture of the actual stone
2. Idealscope picture
3. ASET picture

ETA
If the cert is not a EGL USA, I'll pass on it ASAP.

 

[FireGoddess]

Neatfreak, there is NO way that an EGL D could possibly be more like a G. Color might be a grade off but 3? I seriously doubt it.

Definitely for EGL USA but probably even for EGL Israel (though I'd stay away from anything that's not EGL USA anyway). I know people prefer AGS and GIA but realistically EGL USA is not that absurdly far off.

As with all fancies, a picture speaks a thousand words. Have any? Idealscope?

Have you seen the cut chart from AGA?

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 6/21/2007 3:10:59 PM
Author: FireGoddess
Neatfreak, there is NO way that an EGL D could possibly be more like a G. Color might be a grade off but 3? I seriously doubt it.

Definitely for EGL USA but probably even for EGL Israel (though I''d stay away from anything that''s not EGL USA anyway). I know people prefer AGS and GIA but realistically EGL USA is not that absurdly far off.


As with all fancies, a picture speaks a thousand words. Have any? Idealscope?


Have you seen the cut chart from AGA?

I agree that it''s unlikely to be 3 grades off if it''s EGL USA. But since we don''t know which EGL it is...I was just making a point that it could be off and the OP needs to be aware of that.

But you are right, it is unlikely to be 3 grades off, but two is certainly very possible!

 

[DiamondLover5]

Dear Neatfreak:

Can I ask where the picture in your profile, the ring, is from?
Thank you so much!

L.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 6/21/2007 3:46:29 PM
Author: DiamondLover5
Dear Neatfreak:


Can I ask where the picture in your profile, the ring, is from?

Thank you so much!


L.

It''s mine! My fiance took the picture actually.

The ring itself is a .81 cushion from Mark at ERD in a Ritani endless love setting.

 

[Lorelei]

This Pricescope survey may be of interest regarding EGL, for those who may not have seen it

http://grading.pricescope.com/

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 6/21/2007 3:59:54 PM
Author: Lorelei
This Pricescope survey may be of interest regarding EGL, for those who may not have seen it

http://grading.pricescope.com/

I recall that I certainly found it interesting. It's been at least a year since I've read it, but EGL was in some cases stricter than other labs on clarity, as I recall, while sometimes a grade softer on color. I just think sometimes people are very quick to say 'oh, anything graded by EGL will be lower color and clarity than they say it is' and that is NOT always the case, nor is it usually as bad (ie. several grades) as people think it is when it does happen.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/21/2007 4:36:08 PM
Author: FireGoddess

Date: 6/21/2007 3:59:54 PM
Author: Lorelei
This Pricescope survey may be of interest regarding EGL, for those who may not have seen it

http://grading.pricescope.com/

I recall that I certainly found it interesting. It's been at least a year since I've read it, but EGL was in some cases stricter than other labs on clarity, as I recall, while sometimes a grade softer on color. I just think sometimes people are very quick to say 'oh, anything graded by EGL will be lower color and clarity than they say it is' and that is NOT always the case, nor is it usually as bad (ie. several grades) as people think it is.

I agree, also I have an EGL graded diamond also of a low colour which appraised accurately ( EGL USA)

 

[newring4me]

First of all...thank you so much for all of your opinions. I really appreciate it. I have a picture...but I do not think its blow up enough to see all of the characteristics.


Also, this is the setting that I'm thinking of putting it in.

http://www.adiamor.com/R-1059-R2771-1.htm


Thanks again. I've been reading this forum for quite awhile and you all have been most helpful!

 

[Lorelei]

It looks lovely to me, see if you can get a more ' face on' pic to see how much of a bow tie it shows, which is common in fancy shapes. Hopefully the vendor will do this for you, ask about an Idealscope or ASET image too. Check into the return policy in case you want to return it, also as said previously as it is a D and if this is very important to you, the appraisal would be a good idea to make sure. But it looks like a very pretty pear - get more pics and an IS image if you can.

Check out this link for Fancy Shape Tips and Bowties and also this one Fancy Shapes

 

[FireGoddess]

The stone seems pretty nice, though I agree with Lorelei, it would be great to see a ''face front'' shot as well as an IS image. The setting you are thinking of seems lovely!

 

[newring4me]

ok... I promise I won''t do this again however I now saw this diamond. Its I color but looks lighter than that to me...here is the pic...this one is looking much better

Depth %:
63.8
Table %:
62
Certificate:
GIA
Cut:
Pear
Polish:
V.G
Symmetry:
Good
Color:
I
Carat Weight:
1.51
Clarity:
VS2
Dimensions:
10.14-6.24X3.98
Fluorescence:
None
Suggested Retail Price: $11960.00
Our Price:
$5310.00

 

[newring4me]

Whooops...forgot to link...see...I'm NOT a linking fool!

Thanks everyone for your help
I guess if I had to go by picture alone...this one looks a lot better. I never thought I would consider and I...but I have an H color now and it looks fine to me.

 

[FireGoddess]

.

 

[Lorelei]

The price looks low for the size and specs at first glance, confirmed with a quick search...With an I colour, you need to be careful that there isn't warmth concentrated in the tip - I have a 2 ct GIA graded H colour pear and in some lights you see a hint of warmth in the tip, pears also can routinely show more colour than a round also. Again pics and an Idealscope image or ASET would be needed.

ETA - good job Miss FG for the pic, it does look pretty, bear in mind with the colour especially in the tip. Also the second pear looks similar in personality to mine and the shape - length/ width ratio.

 

[FireGoddess]

.

 

[dianne]

Date: 6/21/2007 3:10:59 PM
Author: FireGoddess
Neatfreak, there is NO way that an EGL D could possibly be more like a G. Color might be a grade off but 3? I seriously doubt it.

Definitely for EGL USA but probably even for EGL Israel (though I''d stay away from anything that''s not EGL USA anyway). I know people prefer AGS and GIA but realistically EGL USA is not that absurdly far off.

As with all fancies, a picture speaks a thousand words. Have any? Idealscope?

Have you seen the cut chart from AGA?

The first diamond my bf bought for me was and EGL Europe. Admittedly, the price enticed us because it meant he could afford a much larger diamond than we EVER thought he could get for the $$. Cert said it was a H. I went to two different jewelry stores who matched it against their master stones and both said it was a K. In fact, they walked me thru the process by comparing obviously whiter stones (without letting me see the color of the master stone) and then going down in color until we agreed it was a match...which was a definite K. Guess what? The "obviously whiter" stone they began with was an H, which is what the EGL Europe cert had graded mine. 3 color grades off may be rare but it did happen to me...however, I can see your point if you are beginning with a supposedly colorless D stone. The difference between a D and a G may be more noticeable than H to K....I dunno.

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 6/21/2007 9:13:25 PM
Author: dianne

Date: 6/21/2007 3:10:59 PM
Author: FireGoddess
Neatfreak, there is NO way that an EGL D could possibly be more like a G. Color might be a grade off but 3? I seriously doubt it.

Definitely for EGL USA but probably even for EGL Israel (though I'd stay away from anything that's not EGL USA anyway). I know people prefer AGS and GIA but realistically EGL USA is not that absurdly far off.

As with all fancies, a picture speaks a thousand words. Have any? Idealscope?

Have you seen the cut chart from AGA?

The first diamond my bf bought for me was and EGL Europe. Admittedly, the price enticed us because it meant he could afford a much larger diamond than we EVER thought he could get for the $$. Cert said it was a H. I went to two different jewelry stores who matched it against their master stones and both said it was a K. In fact, they walked me thru the process by comparing obviously whiter stones (without letting me see the color of the master stone) and then going down in color until we agreed it was a match...which was a definite K. Guess what? The 'obviously whiter' stone they began with was an H, which is what the EGL Europe cert had graded mine. 3 color grades off may be rare but it did happen to me...however, I can see your point if you are beginning with a supposedly colorless D stone. The difference between a D and a G may be more noticeable than H to K....I dunno.

Admittedly though - neither you nor the jewelry store personnel were lab graders (nor were they certified appraisers I assume), so whilst you all agreed the stone looked more like a K, that isn't the same as having the stone regraded by a reputable lab and having it come back as a K.

I'm not saying it can never happen, but I think we can all agree it's for the most part unlikely [to happen].

 

[dianne]

Date: 6/21/2007 9:17:12 PM
Author: FireGoddess

Date: 6/21/2007 9:13:25 PM
Author: dianne

Date: 6/21/2007 3:10:59 PM
Author: FireGoddess
Neatfreak, there is NO way that an EGL D could possibly be more like a G. Color might be a grade off but 3? I seriously doubt it.

Definitely for EGL USA but probably even for EGL Israel (though I'd stay away from anything that's not EGL USA anyway). I know people prefer AGS and GIA but realistically EGL USA is not that absurdly far off.

As with all fancies, a picture speaks a thousand words. Have any? Idealscope?

Have you seen the cut chart from AGA?

The first diamond my bf bought for me was and EGL Europe. Admittedly, the price enticed us because it meant he could afford a much larger diamond than we EVER thought he could get for the $$. Cert said it was a H. I went to two different jewelry stores who matched it against their master stones and both said it was a K. In fact, they walked me thru the process by comparing obviously whiter stones (without letting me see the color of the master stone) and then going down in color until we agreed it was a match...which was a definite K. Guess what? The 'obviously whiter' stone they began with was an H, which is what the EGL Europe cert had graded mine. 3 color grades off may be rare but it did happen to me...however, I can see your point if you are beginning with a supposedly colorless D stone. The difference between a D and a G may be more noticeable than H to K....I dunno.

Admittedly though - neither you nor the jewelry store personnel were lab graders (nor were they certified appraisers I assume), so whilst you all agreed the stone looked more like a K, that isn't the same as having the stone regraded by a reputable lab and having it come back as a K.

I'm not saying it can never happen, but I think we can all agree it's for the most part unlikely [to happen].

Excellent point. You are absolutely correct.

This was a "freebie" look and they spent a lot of time with me, both jewelers, without trying to sell me anything. Although their eyes were certainly more trained than mine, I cannot say either were certified appraisers...even though I didn't ask. After the comparisons, I was satisfied with my own eyes to know I was certain it wasn't an H so I chose to not pay an appraisal fee to confirm what I felt I already knew. I have to agree that for the color to be 3 grades off very often is unlikely.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/21/2007 9:17:12 PM
Author: FireGoddess

Date: 6/21/2007 9:13:25 PM
Author: dianne

Date: 6/21/2007 3:10:59 PM
Author: FireGoddess
Neatfreak, there is NO way that an EGL D could possibly be more like a G. Color might be a grade off but 3? I seriously doubt it.

Definitely for EGL USA but probably even for EGL Israel (though I''d stay away from anything that''s not EGL USA anyway). I know people prefer AGS and GIA but realistically EGL USA is not that absurdly far off.

As with all fancies, a picture speaks a thousand words. Have any? Idealscope?

Have you seen the cut chart from AGA?

The first diamond my bf bought for me was and EGL Europe. Admittedly, the price enticed us because it meant he could afford a much larger diamond than we EVER thought he could get for the $$. Cert said it was a H. I went to two different jewelry stores who matched it against their master stones and both said it was a K. In fact, they walked me thru the process by comparing obviously whiter stones (without letting me see the color of the master stone) and then going down in color until we agreed it was a match...which was a definite K. Guess what? The ''obviously whiter'' stone they began with was an H, which is what the EGL Europe cert had graded mine. 3 color grades off may be rare but it did happen to me...however, I can see your point if you are beginning with a supposedly colorless D stone. The difference between a D and a G may be more noticeable than H to K....I dunno.

Admittedly though - neither you nor the jewelry store personnel were lab graders (nor were they certified appraisers I assume), so whilst you all agreed the stone looked more like a K, that isn''t the same as having the stone regraded by a reputable lab and having it come back as a K.

I''m not saying it can never happen, but I think we can all agree it''s for the most part unlikely [to happen].

Ditto. Also by taking the diamond to 2 different jewellery stores for comparison, it is quite possible that these jewellers would have preferred to get the sale themselves and therefore let this influence their '' colour grading.''

 

[newring4me]

Thanks again for your help. It also has occured to me that I probably need to buy the setting first to make sure that it looks good on my finger. THEN deal with the whole diamond issue. I thought all of the prices looked low from this seller? I don''t know what is up with that but he is offering to give me credit on my current ring so that is also a ++ for me. The place that I am wanting to buy the setting from would not do that.

Thanks again!

 

[chrono]

Date: 6/22/2007 9:06:44 AM
Author: newring4me
Thanks again for your help. It also has occured to me that I probably need to buy the setting first to make sure that it looks good on my finger. THEN deal with the whole diamond issue. I thought all of the prices looked low from this seller? I don''t know what is up with that but he is offering to give me credit on my current ring so that is also a ++ for me. The place that I am wanting to buy the setting from would not do that.

Thanks again!

NO! You had it right the first time. Diamond first, setting later. By getting the setting first, you are actually making it harder to find the right diamond because you are adding another limitation - physical size, on top of all the other criteria you have to consider.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/22/2007 9:10:44 AM
Author: Chrono

Date: 6/22/2007 9:06:44 AM
Author: newring4me
Thanks again for your help. It also has occured to me that I probably need to buy the setting first to make sure that it looks good on my finger. THEN deal with the whole diamond issue. I thought all of the prices looked low from this seller? I don''t know what is up with that but he is offering to give me credit on my current ring so that is also a ++ for me. The place that I am wanting to buy the setting from would not do that.

Thanks again!

NO! You had it right the first time. Diamond first, setting later. By getting the setting first, you are actually making it harder to find the right diamond because you are adding another limitation - physical size, on top of all the other criteria you have to consider.

Absolutely agree !!!

 

[FireGoddess]

I triple agree with these lovely ladies - definitely go for the stone first. It''s hard enough to find a good fancy cut stone - don''t add another constraint (what size stone a head can accomodate) to the mix!!