Pear ASET and OGI pics, opinions?

[elle_chris]

James Allen just emailed me the aset image and numbers for the pear i''m considering for mom. It''s a .53, F, VS1 link

The images look good to me for a pear but I''m no expert. Any thoughts?

 

[elle_chris]

..

 

[Lorelei]

I think its a decent ASET for a pear Elle, good crown height etc. Check with them concerning the bow tie and to what extent it shows, I don't mind a bit of a bow tie and you can't always avoid them in these shapes but ask them if the BT is prominent.

 

[elle_chris]

Thanks Lorelei. I emailed the SA and asked about the bow tie as well as a real pic of the stone.

I dd a search on PS for pear aset images and green seems to be the most prominent color on the few I''ve found. Is that better for a pear?

 

[elle_chris]

This is the pic. If I''m comparing the two, the images are very different but I have no idea how it relates to what I''m going to see in real life. (pic is of sparkles pear)

 

[oldminer]

I admit to making very few grading decisions with ASET images, but I can''t see how anyone can recomend this stone based on the ASET image provided. It does have decent physical specs. I looked here: http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_reference_chart_ASET.asp and attempted to make some comparisons, but I would not want to endorse this diamond as reallly comparable to either of the top two graded images provided. Maybe someone, or a few of you, would give me some pointers on how the comparison is being made which allows for any accurate advice to be given. I''m always ready to learn a bit more. THANKS>>>

 

[elle_chris]

So should I pass on it, David? I''m even more confused now

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/7/2009 11:30:56 AM
Author:elle_chris
James Allen just emailed me the aset image and numbers for the pear i'm considering for mom. It's a .53, F, VS1 link

The images look good to me for a pear but I'm no expert. Any thoughts?

There is something wrong with that ASET picture (the first post image). There seems to be too much backlighting and it is obscuring the contrast between blue obstruction and red which is direct light return. The image is either out of focus or overpowered by background backlighting.

The constant issue with pairs is a bow tie which should manifest itself as blue(viewer head obstruction) in the ASET, and really the faceup image paralell to the girdle viewing angle is the most important for viewing how noticeable the bowties will be at the normal viewing angles.The key is to take a good aset with the girldle paralell to the lense and to have enough but not too much backlighting to get a good crisp image and contrast. I think JA should take the image again most of their ASET images are much better than this one.

If this were a well taken ASET than I'd say that is a fantastic pear and I see very little similarity to the second ASET image you posted below which would be a far inferior performing stone.
There is very little blue obstruction in the wider part where we would normally see obscuration and a bowtie and there is good distribution of red throughout. I am not a big fan of black background ASET though as it makes it harder to see leakage as opposed to white background, so I would request an idealscope as well to see which areas are also leaking light. The stone intially posted not the lower one looks promising to me so far.

 

[elle_chris]

ChunkyCushion- I emailed the SA asking about the ASET and also asked what their gemologist thought of it.

I''m beyond confused at this point. i thought it was a good aset but lorelei said decent, dave says he wouldn''t recommend it based on the image, and you''re saying there''s something wrong with it. Not sure what to do..

 

[elle_chris]

CCL- You were right, there''s a problem with their ASET images. They''re working on correcting the equipment. I should have a new image in 24-48 hours.

Lorelei- About t he bow tie- Julianna said " While there is a faint appearance that can be seen, it does not negatively impact the visual appearance of the diamond at al".
I asked for a real pic so I can see it for myself.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/7/2009 1:11:33 PM
Author: oldminer
I admit to making very few grading decisions with ASET images, but I can''t see how anyone can recomend this stone based on the ASET image provided. It does have decent physical specs. I looked here: http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_reference_chart_ASET.asp and attempted to make some comparisons, but I would not want to endorse this diamond as reallly comparable to either of the top two graded images provided. Maybe someone, or a few of you, would give me some pointers on how the comparison is being made which allows for any accurate advice to be given. I''m always ready to learn a bit more. THANKS>>>

Good point!
They don''t show images of other fancy shapes in the tutorial links.
IMO each fancy shape has to have an adjusted tolerance for Green and Blue in the ASET and sometimes the interpretation can be highly subjective and a major source of confusion and weakness in using the technology.
In the absence of an universally accepted cut grade system based on light performance not propotions with tolerances for Pear and other (non princess) fancy shapes I can see why Garry can''t post ASET images and give them cut grades.

Maybe an example of of each grading in the old old AGA cut grading system proportion system in each overall cut category category and matching ASET would help illustrate the point .

In my limited experience with comparing ASETs of pears to the actual thing I would be looking for the following in an ASET image:

1) Minimal blue color in the wider part of the diamond where you would normallly find the bowtie.
2) Good distribution of red and green throughout the stone
3) Minimal leakage and if present not on the edges and not in large quantities adjacent to obstruction areas.
4) Red on ASET as close to the edges of the diamond as possible for more edge to edge brilliance in most light environments.

I hope strm, rhino and Cutnut will chime in here and give more specifics. I read your article on a new modified AGA cut grade based on AGA-LBI but almost no vendors use that Brilliance machine so not going to help us much here.

Regards,
CCL

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/7/2009 2:21:37 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 10/7/2009 11:30:56 AM
Author:elle_chris
James Allen just emailed me the aset image and numbers for the pear i'm considering for mom. It's a .53, F, VS1 link

The images look good to me for a pear but I'm no expert. Any thoughts?

There is something wrong with that ASET picture (the first post image). There seems to be too much backlighting and it is obscuring the contrast between blue obstruction and red which is direct light return. The image is either out of focus or overpowered by background backlighting.

The constant issue with pairs is a bow tie which should manifest itself as blue(viewer head obstruction) in the ASET, and really the faceup image paralell to the girdle viewing angle is the most important for viewing how noticeable the bowties will be at the normal viewing angles.The key is to take a good aset with the girldle paralell to the lense and to have enough but not too much backlighting to get a good crisp image and contrast. I think JA should take the image again most of their ASET images are much better than this one.

If this were a well taken ASET than I'd say that is a fantastic pear and I see very little similarity to the second ASET image you posted below which would be a far inferior performing stone.
There is very little blue obstruction in the wider part where we would normally see obscuration and a bowtie and there is good distribution of red throughout. I am not a big fan of black background ASET though as it makes it harder to see leakage as opposed to white background, so I would request an idealscope as well to see which areas are also leaking light. The stone intially posted not the lower one looks promising to me so far.

Concerning bow ties, it is always best to ask a vendor with the stone in hand to advise, you can't always tell from images to what extent they will show, plus they can look more pronounced when the diamond is slightly tilted in different positions, a bow tie in a pear can show more or less according to what position the diamond is in compared to a static image.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/7/2009 3:17:43 PM
Author: elle_chris
ChunkyCushion- I emailed the SA asking about the ASET and also asked what their gemologist thought of it.

I'm beyond confused at this point. i thought it was a good aset but lorelei said decent, dave says he wouldn't recommend it based on the image, and you're saying there's something wrong with it. Not sure what to do..

Yes I wasn't too sure what to make of the image, I had some questions concerning it so looks like that is being addressed. I also want to say again kudos to James Allen for offering ASET images for fancy shapes!

 

[elle_chris]

got a new aset and image.. thoughts?

 

[elle_chris]

..

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

1) ASET now shows a bit more leakage than before especially at the top but pears general have some.
2) It scores 1B in AGA(2nd Highest) cut class system, that assumes if you round up the total depth to 59% like you posted in that chart of numbers from sarin.
http://www.gemappraisers.com/GradeForm.asp

3) ASET still shows a lot of red and the picture shows a pretty bright stone with a very small bowtie.

I would say this is worth calling in to have a look it is a premium cut or pretty close and the ASET and image is pretty decent as well.

Especially in this size range and cost you won't be able to call in too many stones for it to be worth searching futher (not sure who is paying the shipping to call in stones if its you for sure not worth it on a ~1k stone).

I can't even suggest alternatives as most sites don't provide crown height % or ASET images for these.

If you want to keep searching these numbers can be used to narrow down your search but then you still should see an ASET anyway.

http://www.gemappraisers.com/oldcutgraderules.asp

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/8/2009 6:30:36 PM
Author: elle_chris
got a new aset and image.. thoughts?

Thats better, ask the gemologist at JA concerning the bow tie for sure and how much it shows - you cannot determine this by images. Its an attractive pear and the shape you want ( its shaped like mine too which to me is the "traditional" pear shape. I think it is a pretty stone. I have viewed lots of pears, own one and take a special interest in this shape, so I think it is definitely one of the better pears available in my experience.

This vendor has a good return policy, you could have it shipped to you Elle and take a look in person, if it wasn't right for this project then you could send it back but chances are good it is the one.

 

[elle_chris]

The odd thing is the GIA report shows the depth at 60.2, the OGI report at 59.

Jualianna their gemologist said the bow tie is minimum. I''ll see it for myself today. The good thing is that JA keep their stones in NYC, so if I don''t like it, I can return it in person without having to pay shipping charges.

I''m willing to up the budget for the stone to 1,600 but want it to have the same specs. Colorless, no lower than a VS2 and half a carat. I don''t think that''s too low from the prices I''ve seen but I want a particular shape for this pendant and that''s where I''m having a problem.

Thanks for your replies CCL and Lorelei, much appreciated.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/9/2009 7:22:29 AM
Author: elle_chris
The odd thing is the GIA report shows the depth at 60.2, the OGI report at 59.

Jualianna their gemologist said the bow tie is minimum. I'll see it for myself today. The good thing is that JA keep their stones in NYC, so if I don't like it, I can return it in person without having to pay shipping charges.

I'm willing to up the budget for the stone to 1,600 but want it to have the same specs. Colorless, no lower than a VS2 and half a carat. I don't think that's too low from the prices I've seen but I want a particular shape for this pendant and that's where I'm having a problem.

Thanks for your replies CCL and Lorelei, much appreciated.

Some variance is normal between measurements in these cases, no worries Elle. Thats great you will see it in person, that will settle the question - let us know what you decide! I did have a look around and there doesn't seem to be much else fitting the bill right now in pears so this one is definitely worth serious consideration.

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 10/8/2009 6:30:36 PM
Author: elle_chris
got a new aset and image.. thoughts?

looks excellent to me.
You will always get some leakage with a long pear and it is better than average and has a lot of red.
Nice diamond.

 

[elle_chris]

Lorelei- will have the diamond in a few hours!

Karl- Thanks for your imput. And a BIG congrats on your design. Hoping to make it out to GOG one day soon and see it in person. Looks freaking gorgeous from the video.

 

[denverappraiser]

I suspect it’s a nice looking stone in terms of brightness but a little lacking in ‘life’.

I further suspect that much of the difference you are seeing between the ASET photograph and the ASET model (the second picture is a computer model generated from the OGI data) has to do with the OGI scan. Look at the outline of the stone. I presume the one in the photo is correct, which means the one in the model is wrong.

The leakage at the tip and base of the pear are fairly typical and to a large extent unavoidable. This isn’t the minimum but it’s better than average. The edge-to-edge red is a good sign although the near complete absence of blue is not.

Let us know how it looks when you get it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/9/2009 9:18:59 AM
Author: elle_chris
Lorelei- will have the diamond in a few hours!

Karl- Thanks for your imput. And a BIG congrats on your design. Hoping to make it out to GOG one day soon and see it in person. Looks freaking gorgeous from the video.

Look forward to hearing what you think!!

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 10/9/2009 9:18:59 AM
Author: elle_chris
Lorelei- will have the diamond in a few hours!

kewl let us know what you think.
I bet it will dance and have lots of life it has a nice mix of virtual facet sizes and contrast zones.

 

[elle_chris]

Got the pear!

My thoughts. First, I LOVE the shape. It's exactly what I wanted. It's also a very, very white stone. In fact, when I went looking at pears, none of them looked this brilliant to me. As it's been raining here for the last few days, I can't tell how the stone performs. The lighting in terrible here and even my H&A's look bad. Will take it out as soon as we have some sun. What I will say is that it's still a very bright stone even in this gloomy weather.

I took a few pics where the bow tie looks very prominent. But when viewing the stone in person, it's very faint. Not sure why it comes out so much in pictures.

So here's the first pic.

 

[elle_chris]

here''s another where the bow tie is very obvious. Again, it does not look like this in real life.

 

[elle_chris]

closer view.

only thing I regret is the stone isn''t bigger.. lol.. Am putting it on a DBTY platinum chain with 3point bezeled melee. I think mom''s gonna love it

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/10/2009 9:34:33 AM
Author: elle_chris
closer view.

only thing I regret is the stone isn''t bigger.. lol.. Am putting it on a DBTY platinum chain with 3point bezeled melee. I think mom''s gonna love it

Its a BEAUTY!!!!!! LOVE it Elle, its a smashing choice!!!!

 

[tyty333]

From the pictures it looks very bright and sparkly...the bow-ties always show up more in still photos then in real life.
I think the necklace is going to be a beauty and Mom should love it!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/10/2009 9:31:29 AM
Author: elle_chris
here's another where the bow tie is very obvious. Again, it does not look like this in real life.

That goes to prove that it isn't really advisable to judge bow ties from images, I have come across some with whopping bow ties in photographs which hardly showed in reality and vice versa!