Padparadscha Sapphires

[Cyren]

Hello all,
I was certain that I wanted a diamond in my engagment ring until I stumbled upon this today:

http://cherrypicked.com/Gallery/Score.aspx?ItemID=1923

Besides the blinding price, I''m totally mesmerized by the color. Does anyone have any more information about this kind of sapphire? What should I be looking for in this kind of stone?

Thanks in advance!

 

[robbie3982]

Hi Cyren,

Someone actually just got a padparadscha sapphire engagement ring fairly recently. If you search "padparadscha" you should be able to pull up threads where other people have talked about them.

I hope this helps!

 

[Linda W]

HI Cyren,

Ohhhhhhhhh you said the magic word. The Padparadscha is my absolute favorite stone.

Please let us know what you decide to do. If you chose this stone as an engagement ring. WOW.

www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com has a great selection. They are very helpful on the phone.

Please keep us informed.

Linda

 

[PrecisionGem]

That Cherry picked stone looks well cut. Often these sapphires are very poorly cut. As you see, the price does reflect the better make on the stone however. Bad cutting can loose a lot of life.

 

[Linda W]

Gene,

I have noticed that Pads are often poorly cut. Can you explain to us why is that? Please?

Linda

 

[Cyren]

Thanks for the replies, I looked at thenatrualsapphirecompany.com and they have some amazing stuff... The stone I origianlly linked is way out of our price range, we''ve been budgeting for a diamond, but I just can''t get the color of these stones out of my head!

I''ve noticed thenaturalsapphirecompany provides "cirtificates" that come with the stones, but they are generated by the natural sapphire company themselves, are colored gems certed at all? I''ve been concentrating on diamonds so much I don''t even know where to start with colored stones.

Is Linda right? Are many Pads poorly cut? any suggestions on how to find a good stone?

Thanks for all the help!

 

[widget]

Hi Cyren...welcome to the PFC (Pad Fan Club)

I believe that NSC''s inhouse certs are essentially guarantees that they will come back described " unheated" if you opt to have a stone certed by an outside lab (like AGTA) Some of their stones already have AGTA certs, which is nice.

(As with diamonds, having a stone with a lab report from a recognized and respected lab is useful in the event that you ever want to sell the stone.

Perhaps some pads are poorly cut because they can be so costly...that saving weight is a priority. Also...I''ve heard that some native cutters are masters at makiing a colored stone look its very best...creatively.

I think that cutting colored stones is more art than science, and that ''how they look'' is the most important thing.

(Disclaimer here: I have a very poorly cut pad that I absoluely love...so I''m probably biased!)

Good luck!
widget

 

[Cyren]

Thanks widget, it looks like I might need it!

It does look like the cuts vary greatly, I''m sure the beauty of the stone is in the eye of the beholder, I don''t know if that''s going to make finding the perfect one harder or easier!

Thanks for all the help


Cyren

 

[PrecisionGem]

Many of the more vailuable stones are cut in the country they are mined in. THis is typically called "Native Cut". Much of the cutting is done by young girls working in what we would consider a sweat shop. The main criteria in the cut in maximum weight retention. Gems are sold by the ct. weight to consumers, and most consumers don''t know a good cut from a bad one, and the name of the game is all about making money. Native cutters are masters at weight retention, but not making a stone look good. Beside weight, what most consumers see is face up size. So the cutter will cut a shallow stone, but a wide one. THis will always window, have very little fire or life, but look large. You don''t ever see any exotic shapes or cuts from the native cutters, since this would require the use of a mast head type faceting machine. They cut on very simple jam peg or similar type machines.
I had lunch a few times this past year in Tucson with a guy who ran a cutting house in China, and he told me each cutter is required to produce 30 stones per day. I would guess that they work more than an 8 hour day. I couldn''t believe this, since I spend 2 to 5 hours on one stone. He then explained that they cut like an assembly line. ONe guy shapes it in, passes it along, the next guy cuts and polishes in one step, then passes to another who transfers ... etc.
A good polish on a sapphire requires a two step process... one to pre-polish with 8000 grit diamond powder, and then a finish polish with 50,0000 to 100,000 grit polish. The overseas cutters won''t and can''t do this with the type of equipment they use.
Sometimes you can fine some Pads that are cut in Germany or Russia or the USA, where they are cut well. These will command a higher price however, but side by side with a native cut stone they will jump out at you. There is definite science in cutting since you are dealing with critical angles, which change for each type of gem.

 

[Cyren]

Oh! one more question, can I have these stones sent to an appraiser where I can look at them? Or do I just have to use the return policy usually?

I would imagine that all stones are handled pretty much the same, but I''m the new one here.


Cyren

 

[Linda W]

Cyren,

That is what Gene said, they were poorly cut. If you are really interested, call the natural sapphire company and they will explain about their certificates. That is what I did. They have two certified gemologists on sight.

Linda

 

[widget]

Gosh, Gene...I guess I stand corrected. What I said about native cutting was (perhaps bad) paraphrasing of Vincent Pardieu thoughts on the subject.

I''m still a little dubious that valuable unheaded padparadsha rough would be handed over to a young girl with a stone quota....but what do I know?

widget

 

[Linda W]

Thanks Gene for explaining all of this. Now is understand,why most Pads I see have windows in them, some little some large. I don''t don''t mind though I LOVE that stone. I am soooooooooooo addicted.

Linda

 

[Cyren]

That really clears up a lot, thanks Gene. What''s the consensus here about recutting a gem? Would that be a possibility?

Thanks


Cyren

 

[PrecisionGem]

Recutting a shallow stone can result in a lot of lost weight. I bought a really shallow cut windowed blue topaz one time at a gem show. I think it was around 9 cts. (I paid $9.00 for it). It was a really ugly stone. I used to take it around to shows I did, so when I would explain what a window was, I had something to show. Anyways, one day I recut it. I think it ended up just a bit over 4 cts. So, you would need to be ready for a much smaller stone. Sometimes recutting doesn''t result in so much lost stone, it''s really a function of the shape of the original. Also, while cutting this one, I really didn''t care how much was lost, since the stone isn''t worth very much.

I don''t do recutting of other peoples stones.

 

[RockDoc]

Gene has certainly written some great stuff here.

As to recutting saphs.... where the color is in the stone is of primary importance.
I am not sure this is true with Pads, since I''ve never had to recut one, or haven''t even examined one for where the color is in the stone.

But in that he cuts colored stones, I would assume that he has run into situations, where in the recutting the color either intensifies, or is diminished severely.

I used to cut colored stones, but was way to fussy. The last stone I cut I spend three months cutting. Of course it is an amazing cut one, a round stone, with a spiral set pattern of faceting on the pavilion, with 180 facets.

Getting all the facets perfect was a very time consuming project on this stone. If you cut one "too deep"you''d have to go repolish all the rest of them.

I absolutely agree about using the proper angles in cutting, and that they do vary from gemstone type to gemstone type. But a properly faceted colored stone, is just so different from the native cut stuff ( a ton of it on ebay). I think they ruin the beauty of nice material.

Rockdoc

 

[colorchange]

This pad from Cherry Picked is truely outstanding, it''s the kind of stone every gem delaer dreams to find when going to Ceylon...
Unfortunately finest pads are extremely expensive as you can see... you may get lighter stones (that are much less expensive and are "more" padparadsha if you try to match the original definition) for much lower prices.

 

[Cyren]

I think I would just need to find a stone that spoke to me, well cut, with a color that felt right. It''s going to be a process, hopefully we can find something in our budget eventually. I liked Gene''s comment from the ruby engagement ring thread, getting away from the "common diamond." Something this rare and beautiful will always be a conversation piece, and unique.

Thanks for all the info, I''ll keep you updated.


Cyren

 

[Gypsy]

I thought this one was very pretty.

http://cherrypicked.com/Gallery/Score.aspx?ItemID=1164

 

[gemmy1]

Date: 7/11/2006 3:25:04 PM
Author:Cyren
Hello all,
I was certain that I wanted a diamond in my engagment ring until I stumbled upon this today:

http://cherrypicked.com/Gallery/Score.aspx?ItemID=1923

Besides the blinding price, I''m totally mesmerized by the color. Does anyone have any more information about this kind of sapphire? What should I be looking for in this kind of stone?

Thanks in advance!

This stone is a real gem. It is beautifully cut and has a cert from the AGTA lab, perhaps the foremost authority on colored stones, as natural. Cherry picked is a reputable and knowlegeable outfit and they will provide you with answers to any questions you might have, and I bet you they will negotiate if you get serious about something they have.

One question that I would ask them is if the stone is heat treated. Natural can simply mean that it is a mined stone. The AGTA cert will note if the stone is enhanced in any way.

Padparascha is a very particular color- a blend of pink, orange, and yellow. The term means lotus flower in Singhalese and at a certain stage of development the lotus has this special color combination. Alot of pink and orange sapphires are promoted as pads, but this one is the real deal- AGTA does not use the term loosely.

 

[colormyworld]

The agta report says no indicactions of heating. There is a difference in the weights listed in the agta report (4.07cts)and what cherrypicked (4.93cts ) listed the sapphire as. The agta report also makes no mention of yellow.
I have heard once or twice that yellow is a componet of a pad. but most of the time they are described as pinkish/orange or orangish/pink. What is the correct color combo for a pad.?
Thanks in advance.
Doug

 

[Linda W]

Doug,

I have also not heard yellow mentioned in the description of a Pad and I have read a lot of material on it. This is something new to me. Maybe it just depends on who certifies it.


Linda

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Date: 7/14/2006 11:14:49 PM
Author: Linda W
Doug,

I have also not heard yellow mentioned in the description of a Pad and I have read a lot of material on it. This is something new to me. Maybe it just depends on who certifies it.


Linda

Linda:Secondary hues exhibited can be yellow or violet...

Tanzania’s Umba river stones often contain hues of pink-red/orange with a brown mask. Wise describes the stones as robust gong over the optimum tonal range of 30-65 %. In a previous post Wise remarks, “Darker toned pink is red and darker toned orange begins to go brown. That is pretty close to a description of a majority of the Umba River padparadschas that were available in the market about ten years ago.” Stones with too much brown and more of a medium dark tone makes them orangey/brownish red.

Gems which are too rich in color and that only pastel orange-pinks can be considered Padparadscha by the labs. I guess it depends on the lab and the grader.

Vietnam’s Quy Chau mines & Southern Madagascar-Vietnam produces beautiful Padparacha’s. Richard Hughes describes the best Padparadscha he has seen was unearthed from Vietnam. And finds the rich papaya pads from Vietnam and East Africa superior in beauty to those from Sri Lanka.Others contend he spectacular “aurora” red-orange stones from Vietnam and Madagascar, even though there are no brown components in those stones, are also excluded by the AGTA definition because of their oranges of high saturation and/or dark tones

Pads display Delicately colored “Light to medium, tones of pinkish orange, orangey-pink . Padparadscha can run from a more predominant Pink with nice Yellow-Orange mixed in, to the intense pastel tones of predominantly Hot Pink with Yellow-Orange mixed in. At the other end of the color spectrum Padparadscha can run from a more predominant pastel Orange with nice Pink-Yellow mixed in, to the darker tones of Orange with Pink-Yellow mixed in. The color should come from a mix of iron, chromium and color centers.

The argument of what percentage of orange to pink hues is still a debate much like the limit a pink sapphire reaches before it’s considered or marketed as a ruby. Modifiers that exist are gray and brown masks. Darker stones with an orange primary hue often display a brown mask and stones that consist of a pink primary hue often display a gray mask. Gems displaying orange primary hues might shade into brown. Sapphire is a dichroic stone and padparadscha often consist of a mixture of hues where the gem divides refracted white light into two rays (colors) The color present maybe yellow as a secondary hue. In an optimum example the colors are distinct, but should me blended well. The uniformity of the blended hues is what is emphasized in being considered optimal. The colors should blend so that it is difficult to see where the pink stops and the orange begins. Finer varieties have been described as having a primary color of pink with strong orange secondary colors, resembling Hawaiian sunset or raw salmon. Dick Hughe’s describes the color as “A marriage between ruby & yellow sapphire”

In general the term Padparadscha is rather a descriptive term or trade name rather than a strictly defined variety. Leading labs in the marketplace can''t agree.

 

[Linda W]

Thank you Josh for all of this information. I am totally "hooked" on this stone. I just purchased another ring from The Natural Sapphire Company. An "early" birthday present from my DH. My birthstone is sapphire, I am a September baby.

Again, thank you for posting all of the information for me.

I truly appreciate it.

Linda

 

[conitta]

Linda...Did you see the Pad ring they sold on GSN today? It sold for $9500.00.I think it was the prettiest I have seen. It was a cushion of 1.55ct or so with beautiful color and a diamond halo.It had what looked like yellow diamonds down the side with white diamonds on either side.Lovely ring. They did not discribe it very well or if they did it was before I tuned in.

BTW I sent the Iperial Topaz back.Didn''t blow my skirt up! ! !

Connie

 

[Linda W]

Hi Connie,

No, I didn''t see it. Was it on Mike''s show? I think I saw it before though. Was it a round Pad with a square Halo around it? If, so I saw it before.

Guess what? I bought another Pad ring from The Natural Sapphire Company. Yes I did. tee hee. It is a 2.24c., set with 38 pts of diamonds The setting is absolutely gorgeous. Remember I told you I wanted a pastel one, well now I got it and a bigger carat weight to boot.

I still have to get that gorgeous 1.33 square cushion set that I bought from GSN. I am thinking of redoing my wedding ring and having it set with my marquise diamond. I don''t know how a jeweler would do it though.

I also bought another .46 pad from The Natural Sapphire Company, when I purchased the new ring. It is little carat weight, but the it is vivid color and perfection.

I keep asking my daughter to get her fanny over her to take pictures for me so I will BUG her again this week

What was wrong with the color of your Imperial Topaz?

Linda

 

[conitta]

Date: 7/16/2006 10:25:37 PM
Author: Linda W
Hi Connie,

No, I didn''t see it. Was it on Mike''s show? I think I saw it before though. Was it a round Pad with a square Halo around it? If, so I saw it before.

Guess what? I bought another Pad ring from The Natural Sapphire Company. Yes I did. tee hee. It is a 2.24c., set with 38 pts of diamonds The setting is absolutely gorgeous. Remember I told you I wanted a pastel one, well now I got it and a bigger carat weight to boot.

I still have to get that gorgeous 1.33 square cushion set that I bought from GSN. I am thinking of redoing my wedding ring and having it set with my marquise diamond. I don''t know how a jeweler would do it though.

I also bought another .46 pad from The Natural Sapphire Company, when I purchased the new ring. It is little carat weight, but the it is vivid color and perfection.

I keep asking my daughter to get her fanny over her to take pictures for me so I will BUG her again this week

What was wrong with the color of your Imperial Topaz?

Linda

Oh Linda you are a bad bad girl.Congratulations

I bet it is beautiful and yes get that daughter of yours over there with the camera and ya''ll have a photo shoot.

I wouldn''t know how you would have a cushion and a marquise set together either.Is that what you were saying? Why not have a pendant made of it?Can''t wait to SEE pics!

As for the wedding rings I have a white gold set and a yellow gold set. My white set is a 1ct champagne diamond solitare in a ring guard. I would like to have it reset with a halo of some sort. What is the difference in the halo and Princess DI style?Larger diamonds?They are both diamonds around a center stone. I guess it is a little difference.Whatever I like the diamonds around a colored stone!

The ring on GSN they said was a cushion but it did look round and set in a square halo.It was WOW! The color was really nice. You know it reminded me of the red sapphire.

I just didn''t like the Topaz and it was a darker color on the ends than in the center.Soooo it went back the next day.

Connie

 

[Linda W]

Connie,

I would have sent that Topaz back too. The color didn''t sound too nice. I am wearing my new Pad on my wedding ring finger now. The band is wide enough.

If you go to www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com type in JST6 and this is the setting I bought. They are wholesale prices, so I can just imagine how much it would be, if I bought this setting at a jewelery store. Please tell me if you like it. I LOVE it.

Hope you find another Topaz you like.

Linda

 

[colorchange]

Date: 7/17/2006 12:48:27 PM
Author: Linda W
Connie,

I would have sent that Topaz back too. The color didn''t sound too nice. I am wearing my new Pad on my wedding ring finger now. The band is wide enough.

If you go to www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com type in JST6 and this is the setting I bought. They are wholesale prices, so I can just imagine how much it would be, if I bought this setting at a jewelery store. Please tell me if you like it. I LOVE it.

Hope you find another Topaz you like.

Linda

The Natural Sapphire Company has a nice set of sapphires but do not sale at "wholesale" prices.
Their company does wholesale also but that''s another problem.

Your ring is very nice BTW, was it sold with an AGTA cert as "pad" ? I love these peach sapphires with some color play.

 

[colorchange]

Date: 7/14/2006 6:28:56 PM
Author: gemmy1

Date: 7/11/2006 3:25:04 PM
Author:Cyren
Hello all,
I was certain that I wanted a diamond in my engagment ring until I stumbled upon this today:

http://cherrypicked.com/Gallery/Score.aspx?ItemID=1923

Besides the blinding price, I''m totally mesmerized by the color. Does anyone have any more information about this kind of sapphire? What should I be looking for in this kind of stone?

Thanks in advance!

This stone is a real gem. It is beautifully cut and has a cert from the AGTA lab, perhaps the foremost authority on colored stones, as natural. Cherry picked is a reputable and knowlegeable outfit and they will provide you with answers to any questions you might have, and I bet you they will negotiate if you get serious about something they have.

One question that I would ask them is if the stone is heat treated. Natural can simply mean that it is a mined stone. The AGTA cert will note if the stone is enhanced in any way.

Padparascha is a very particular color- a blend of pink, orange, and yellow. The term means lotus flower in Singhalese and at a certain stage of development the lotus has this special color combination. Alot of pink and orange sapphires are promoted as pads, but this one is the real deal- AGTA does not use the term loosely.

With all due respect to AGTA that has an outstanding case for it, the "formemost authority" in the trade is commonly regarded as SSEF.
AGTA certificates do not only give opinion on natural vs synthetic but also on treatment and this certificate clearly mentions "No evidence of heat enhancement", which not means the stone is not heated by the way.