Overwhelmed guy looking for some guidance

[rakkinorm]

Hi,

I am very new to this process. Have done some research but feel very overwhelmed by all the terminology and stuff. I have visited local stores and have spoken at lengths with them. As a backdrop, my girlfriend is a very discerning type. I would like to get the best bang for the buck BUT will not sacrifice "eye candy" appeal. I have decided on a Solasfera with the following characteristics:

3.00 Carat
H color
SI1
Tiffany Setting (4 prong, platinum). She has small hands, so this would look great
Round

I was quoted a price of mid 50K for the ring. I was told that there was no cut grade (Solasfera), not sure how accurate this statement is. My research indicates the following:

- For SI1, I have to make sure the inclusions are not on the table. As well as on the edge (easier to chip/break). No black inclusion.
- Since there's no cut grade. I should make sure the girdle is not too thick.
- Color. I should make sure there's no fluorescence.
- Will ask for GIA certificate and Gemex report
- Will ship out of state to avoid taxes. Certified mail

Questions:
A. What other things/suggestions should I look out for?
B. Is it worth it to move to VS2?
C. Is it worth it to move to G Color?

Thank you very much,
Your Humble New Poster

 

[rubybeth]

My research indicates the following:

- For SI1, I have to make sure the inclusions are not on the table. As well as on the edge (easier to chip/break). No black inclusion.
- Since there's no cut grade. I should make sure the girdle is not too thick.
- Color. I should make sure there's no fluorescence.
- Will ask for GIA certificate and Gemex report
- Will ship out of state to avoid taxes. Certified mail

Questions:
A. What other things/suggestions should I look out for?
B. Is it worth it to move to VS2?
C. Is it worth it to move to G Color?

- For SI1, make sure it is 'eye clean' to your standards (6-12 inches away, visible inclusions, etc.).
- You could post the stats of any diamond here for advice on things like girdle.
- Fluorescence is really a personal thing (some love it), it shouldn't affect the color grade, so not sure what you mean here. If you don't like it, fine, but as long as it doesn't make the stone milky/hazy, it should be fine.
A GIA or AGS cert would be good.

A. Lots, I'm sure, but not anything off the top of my head.
B. Depends your definition of 'worth it.' If you need the 'mind clean' aspect of a VS2 vs. and SI1, then yes, but if you can find an eye-clean SI1 that meets your other criteria, I'm not sure that it would be 'worth it' to pay more for something you can't see anyway.
C. Same with SI1 vs. VS2. Depends how color sensitive you/your girlfriend are, and how much this matters to you.

 

[MissGotRocks]

I would call Jonathan at Good Old Gold. He sells Solasfera and can get other stones not listed on his website. His Solasfera stones are certified by GIA. He is a trusted PS vendor and could speak to you at length about these stones.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Are you working with Good Old Gold? If so, you are in good hands and they can be sure you are getting a great stone that meets your standards! There are going to be far fewer Solasfera's available compared to regular ideal cuts, so you will need to be more flexible with your specs. Solasferas are extremely well cut stones and are generally at the top of the heap when it comes to light performance. But I personally would rather have a VS2 below 3 carats, but I am happy with G or H color. Be sure the stone is eyeclean from the sides as well as the top unless you are setting the stone in a halo.

 

[rakkinorm]

Thanks guys. I am going to buy it directly from the solasfera people (David S Diamond). I am going to investigate/ask the following:


SI1 – Is it eye clean? No inclusion on the table, No giant inclusion on the edge (chipping), No black carbon
Cut – Polish grade, Symmetry grade, No cutlet, thin girdle (.50-2.75)
H Color – No fluorescence. Can we check diffuse lighting vs. spot lighting.
Star129 comparison?
Lifetime upgrade policy?

 

[rakkinorm]

Update:

3 carat
9.45 x 9.5 x 5.81
53% table, 61.3%, no cutlet
Girdle: thin to medium
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
No fluorescence
SI1 - lots of small inclusions on table, 1/2 of which are cloud. Not sure if eye clean. My test says so but I have crappy eyes
Lifetime Upgrade Policy

Price is $56K, includes
- $800 for platinum setting
- $260 for insurance and shipping (out of state)

 

[rakkinorm]

Question:


For a 3 carat, will the H color be "icy white" or will it have a yellow tint on it? It's GIA certified as an H, and its a solasfera cut (if that helps).

I am not particularly color sensitive (actually, I am terrible at distinguishing colors). Just concerned about the size and the color coming through.


thanks a bunch

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It's not going to be yellow and it is not going to be icy white, either. When light is hitting it (especially white light), it will look blazing white! But in indoor incandescent lighting, it isn't going to look like a D. It will be beautiful..I really wouldn't worry about it. You'll have to go up a LOT in price to go to a G color at 3 carats. Are they giving you a return period? Because I wouldn't buy any diamond, especially SI1, without seeing it and then having the opportunity to return.

 

[rakkinorm]

yes, there's a refund period.

For SI1, the inclusions are mostly in the table. Is this a cause for concern? Again, I have poor eyes .

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Every diamond is different. And you will not be the only one who every looks at the stone, so I would want it to be 100% eyeclean at a close distance...like 6". And it needs to be eyeclean from the sides. Appraisers here have said it is hard to find totally eyeclean SI1's in 3 ct. sizes, so that is why I was suggesting that you examine it very, very carefully. I understand completely that there are people who value large size over color and clarity, but I personally would rather have a stone in the 2 ct. range that is VS. However, if 3 ct. stones are typical in your social circle, then I think it is worth looking at the stone.

 

[Ravinmad]

is a 2.5+ carat diamond in your social circle the norm? As DS stated its best to judge things by those around you.

I too would prefer a nicer, cleaner stone to the larger one, but to each their own and I'm not knocking you and her choices and taste, I am just curious of the motivation of such a large engagement diamond?

 

[rakkinorm]

One of her friend/close acquaintance recently got a 2.5 carat ring. So it's not unusual. I dont think its the norm however.

For me, it was pretty simple. I wasnt going to compromise on cut and decided the Solasfera cut was exactly what I was looking for. So it boiled down to maximizing size by figuring out the clarity/color constraints. The 3.0 carat number isn't important. I figure that I was getting a better bang for the buck for H and hopefully an eye clean SI1. I saw the diamond in person and it was perfect. My concern is that I am relative new and "wet behind the ears" and my eyes are not great when it comes to distinguishing clarity/color. The objective is to impress my girlfriend and make her happy. She, unlike yours truly, has a discerning eye.

My concern is that my own observation conflicts with what I read on PS. For example, I was told that with large carat, you can see the color more. However, the H diamond in question was icy white to me in all light setting. I was NOT able to distinguish between the H and the F, no matter how hard I try. Ditto for the SI1. I read that finding an "eye clean" 3 carat is very difficult. This one, however, I cannot find the inclusions even though the majority of the inclusions are on the table.

 

[galeteia]

How much do you know about your future wife's preferences?

Some women are very colour sensitive, some are very concerned with inclusions become fixated on them if they are visible (marring their appreciation of the diamond) and some would prefer size above all and aren't bothered by colour or clarity.

May I ask why you are not buying from an objective 3rd party seller? If you are overwhelmed, it's a good idea to enlist the help of an expert in picking a good stone. I can appreciate the fact that the diamond looks great to you, but if I am unloading that much cash, I would want to make sure I am getting the best stone for my money.

Not to sound cynical, but a lot of diamond salespeople will try to play on a 'first love', 'go with your heart', and other sentimental claptrap to sucker people into buying something that looks great under store lights and steer them away from asking too many questions. Kudos to you for reaching out for help, but please don't be like 90% of people who come here asking for advice but are unwilling to take it.

 

[rakkinorm]

How much do you know about your future wife's preferences?

Some women are very colour sensitive, some are very concerned with inclusions become fixated on them if they are visible (marring their appreciation of the diamond) and some would prefer size above all and aren't bothered by colour or clarity.

May I ask why you are not buying from an objective 3rd party seller? If you are overwhelmed, it's a good idea to enlist the help of an expert in picking a good stone. I can appreciate the fact that the diamond looks great to you, but if I am unloading that much cash, I would want to make sure I am getting the best stone for my money.

Not to sound cynical, but a lot of diamond salespeople will try to play on a 'first love', 'go with your heart', and other sentimental claptrap to sucker people into buying something that looks great under store lights and steer them away from asking too many questions. Kudos to you for reaching out for help, but please don't be like 90% of people who come here asking for advice but are unwilling to take it.

Absolutely, definitely agreed. Definitely trying to get the best stone for my money. My budget is fixed and I am trying to navigate the H/SI1 arena since this is where I think I can get the best bang for the buck. I just have to do my homework and make sure the color and clarity meets my standards.

I went directly to the Solasfera because it was not possible (or very difficult) to source a Solasfera in that carat/price range indirectly. My gf had visited David So before and loves the cut. She could not distinguish colors but it was her first time there.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Almost no one can discern color difference in jewelry store lighting. I have diamonds here that are F, G, and H color, and of course I can see the difference in natural light. I think what some of us are trying to say is, if 3 cts. is not typical in her social circle and 2.5 is about the largest, then why not look at stones in the 2.3-2.6 range that are G VS2 so you can get a little nicer color and clarity? You budget is wonderful! But if my husband were to offer me that budget for a new diamond, I'd definitely want at least G VS2 and maybe higher.

 

[rakkinorm]

The G VS2 option is very very appealing. Thats where I am very confused since the aforementioned H SI1 diamond appears very similar to the comparable G VS2 lower carat option. I would hate to regret picking a lower carat if the difference between G/H and VS2/SI1 is not noticeable. Conversely, I would also regret it if I pick the higher carat but the difference between G/H and VS2/SI1 is indeed noticeable.

 

[galeteia]

The G VS2 option is very very appealing. Thats where I am very confused since the aforementioned H SI1 diamond appears very similar to the comparable G VS2 lower carat option. I would hate to regret picking a lower carat if the difference between G/H and VS2/SI1 is not noticeable. Conversely, I would also regret it if I pick the higher carat but the difference between G/H and VS2/SI1 is indeed noticeable.

Very true that the colour difference is more noticeable in natural light. I have a very warm stone myself, so the difference is much less subtle than what you are looking at, but it still varies widely in colour depending on the lighting. Perhaps you could go to a local store and ask to see round brilliant diamonds in those ranges in natural light, at least by a window?

 

[rakkinorm]

The G VS2 option is very very appealing. Thats where I am very confused since the aforementioned H SI1 diamond appears very similar to the comparable G VS2 lower carat option. I would hate to regret picking a lower carat if the difference between G/H and VS2/SI1 is not noticeable. Conversely, I would also regret it if I pick the higher carat but the difference between G/H and VS2/SI1 is indeed noticeable.

Very true that the colour difference is more noticeable in natural light. I have a very warm stone myself, so the difference is much less subtle than what you are looking at, but it still varies widely in colour depending on the lighting. Perhaps you could go to a local store and ask to see round brilliant diamonds in those ranges in natural light, at least by a window?

I am planning to hit tiffany to see if i can detect colors among their selections.

 

[galeteia]

The G VS2 option is very very appealing. Thats where I am very confused since the aforementioned H SI1 diamond appears very similar to the comparable G VS2 lower carat option. I would hate to regret picking a lower carat if the difference between G/H and VS2/SI1 is not noticeable. Conversely, I would also regret it if I pick the higher carat but the difference between G/H and VS2/SI1 is indeed noticeable.

Very true that the colour difference is more noticeable in natural light. I have a very warm stone myself, so the difference is much less subtle than what you are looking at, but it still varies widely in colour depending on the lighting. Perhaps you could go to a local store and ask to see round brilliant diamonds in those ranges in natural light, at least by a window?

I am planning to hit tiffany to see if i can detect colors among their selections.

Good plan! I like the way you think. Go on an overcast day and ask to see them in natural light, because the lighting inside jewelry stores is the push-bra of diamonds.

 

[Gypsy]

The G VS2 option is very very appealing. Thats where I am very confused since the aforementioned H SI1 diamond appears very similar to the comparable G VS2 lower carat option. I would hate to regret picking a lower carat if the difference between G/H and VS2/SI1 is not noticeable. Conversely, I would also regret it if I pick the higher carat but the difference between G/H and VS2/SI1 is indeed noticeable.

Very true that the colour difference is more noticeable in natural light. I have a very warm stone myself, so the difference is much less subtle than what you are looking at, but it still varies widely in colour depending on the lighting. Perhaps you could go to a local store and ask to see round brilliant diamonds in those ranges in natural light, at least by a window?

I am planning to hit tiffany to see if i can detect colors among their selections.

Good plan! I like the way you think. Go on an overcast day and ask to see them in natural light, because the lighting inside jewelry stores is the push-bra of diamonds.

Definitely. My favorite local stores have huge windows and when I ask they will walk the stones outside for me, even. If it's an expensive piece they will hold onto it, but if it's not they just let me take it out as long as I leave my purse and stuff in there with them. This is a LOT of money. Think of it as a car. How many test drives would you want before buying? A couple right? And not once around the block. So take your time and make sure you put this one through it's paces.

I'm weird though, I'd prefer a 3 carat H to a 2.5 G. The color difference would be slight but the size difference would make up for it. So what I am saying is, it's such an individual thing, is there a way you can have your lady's mom, sister, cousin, friend ask her what she'd prefer? Size or color?

 

[rakkinorm]

Terrific advice guys. The more test drive, the better. Doesnt hurt to have a lifetime upgrade policy in the back pocket; but I want the first time around to be perfect.

So I went to Tiffany. I was not able to accurately distinguish FGH, which is excellent news for me if I was to go with the H color. This alleviates my concern about detecting color in larger carat size. It also confirmed modestly my albeit amateur belief that its difficult to distinguish between F and H. This was not in spot lighting but in relatively low diffuse lighting (Tiffany on Fifth Ave). We also went to the window to examine in "northern light". Other tidbits, I was able to detect the difference between D color and H color easily under any lighting scenario. Ditto for E. All this examinations were through the side view and placed next to each other. The diamonds were all mounted in the standard six prong tiffany setting.

On occasions I was able to detect the difference between H color and G color, but I think this was due to the poor quality of one particular H, which we used over and over again in our pepsi/cola test. In a different test, when I was offer three H and three G, I was not able to distinguish them. Again, this was through viewing the side of the diamond

When I was looking top view, it was impossible to distinguish the EFGH. D was the only exception. I guess this speaks to the cut quality of Tiffany.

I am going to more store to do more testing.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I really question the purpose of doing more store testing unless they actually take you outside. I have been in that Tiffany's and I am thinking their windows may not be totally untinted. If you think she'd rather have the 3 ct. H SI1 than a 2.5 higher color and/or clarity stone, then fine. Some people prefer a higher quality stone in a slightly smaller size, and some people want the biggest stone they can get for their money. It's good that all diamonds have someone to want them! Honestly, the SI1 bothers me more than the H. So if I ever had the budget you had, I would be picking out an F-G VS1-VS2, probably! (And that is the range I buy diamonds in with any budget, as a matter of fact!)

I think you should just go ahead and buy the diamond. It sounds like it is what you really want. I don't think the color will be apparent face up because the Solasfera is so well cut. Just be sure you examine it closely from the top and sides to be sure you can't see the inclusions.

 

[rakkinorm]

Thanks for the advice DS. I am just being extra paranoid with this purchase. My girlfriend (and hopefully future wife) is both discerning and value-oriented. She loves a good bargain and hates overpaying. And doesn't compromise on minimum requirement. I think over half of all my gifts, she has either returned or exchanged. As you can see, I am dreadful when it comes to presents/gifts LOL. I grew up with very few things so I never understood purses/bags/massages/watches etc. If It was up to me, F VS2 would definitely be the way to go but I dont wear the ring.

I would hate to "mess" up something as important as an engagement ring.

 

[Gypsy]

A lot of people on these boards consider H AND SI to be quite high quality. It's hard sometimes for posters to be objective in their advice giving, but objectively speaking if the SI is eyeclean to your satisfaction and there are no unsafe inclusions-- why pay for something you can't see with clarity. As for color, the tint is going to be very slight from G to H.

 

[slg47]

question-do you think she would feel comfortable wearing a 3 ct diamond? some ladies would prefer a 2.5 ct? just something to consider (there are many who would definitely go for the 3 ct!)