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Oval Bow Tie Help

yveevee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
11
Hi!

Ive been reading some very helpful posts on here in regards to bow tie in oval diamonds. Been taking some pictures in different lighting of this oval diamond and wanted to get some of your feedback whether this bow tie is good/bad.

In some lighting it seems minimal to me or actually looks like it reflects well but in direct sunlight or other lighting it seems to be pretty apparent as you can tell from the picture in the car which is the worst lighting for it.

I have not seen one that is clear of the bow tie yet so please advise.

20191007_092502.jpg
20191005_144653.jpg
20191007_092104.jpg
20191002_123253.jpg
 

yveevee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
11
We still have time to discuss with jeweler if needed but I wanted an extra opinion due to the bow tie! A little more detail about it, D color, VS1, 1.45 ratio, EX symmetry and polish, faint fluorescence, 58.2% depth and 62% table.

The bow tie is concerning when direct light hits it as you can see it goes very dark in some picture. But it isn't showing all the time....is this due to a poor cut?

Thank you for the help!
 

SouthernElle

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
233
What is your budget, how many carats? Do you have any aset images? Ovals are tough, you’ll never have one with no bow tie unless you get a different cut. August Vintage has two different cuts that eliminate the bow tie, but they have a specific look, so that might be an issue.

I do find that the sweet spot for depth, at least to my eyes, is 60-62%.

I’m about to ship an oval back today due to the bow tie, so I totally get it.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,301
Ovals are tough, you’ll never have one with no bow tie unless you get a different cut.
Hi All!!
This part is a myth that somehow keeps getting repeated. Not all ovals have a Bow Tie.
There's many different styles of cutting ovals- some which completely eliminate a bow tie effect. Nor will a consumer need to pay the price of a branded diamond, or accept one that's overly deep to eliminate a bow tie in an oval as some of the branded diamonds are very deep.

Having said all that- some of the prettiest colorless Oval Brilliant Diamonds have different sized facets in the middle- as compared to the tips. IN general, that's what causes a "bad bow tie"....but in other cases, the area in the middle lights up, instead of going dark.

@yveevee - the pics are not exactly conclusive- but in three of them, the diamond looks to be cut in a way that eliminates the bow tie.
On the GIA report- is the stone classified as "Oval Brilliant" or "Oval Modified Brilliant"?
 

yveevee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
11
Thanks., 2 carat, flexible up to 30k. I don't have an ASET image, actually didn't learn about that until after unfortunately or else we would of asked. We don't have a trained eye for it but it is something we noticed now. I'm sure you all can give a better feedback from your experience whether this is a dark bow tie or not. And what is consider an acceptable bow tie?

Do all ovals show bow tie in direct sunlight? Out of the ones we have seen, they all show some bow tie in direct sunlight but looks beautiful inside indoor lighting.




What is your budget, how many carats? Do you have any aset images? Ovals are tough, you’ll never have one with no bow tie unless you get a different cut. August Vintage has two different cuts that eliminate the bow tie, but they have a specific look, so that might be an issue.

I do find that the sweet spot for depth, at least to my eyes, is 60-62%.

I’m about to ship an oval back today due to the bow tie, so I totally get it.
 

yveevee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
11
Thanks for the clarification! It is noted on the GIA as an "oval brilliant."

In all indoor lighting I do agree the bow tie seems minimal to our eyes. But the moment we are in the car or direct sunlight it shows the bow tie. Which makes me wonder if this was due to a poor cut.



Hi All!!
This part is a myth that somehow keeps getting repeated. Not all ovals have a Bow Tie.
There's many different styles of cutting ovals- some which completely eliminate a bow tie effect. Nor will a consumer need to pay the price of a branded diamond, or accept one that's overly deep to eliminate a bow tie in an oval as some of the branded diamonds are very deep.

Having said all that- some of the prettiest colorless Oval Brilliant Diamonds have different sized facets in the middle- as compared to the tips. IN general, that's what causes a "bad bow tie"....but in other cases, the area in the middle lights up, instead of going dark.

@yveevee - the pics are not exactly conclusive- but in three of them, the diamond looks to be cut in a way that eliminates the bow tie.
On the GIA report- is the stone classified as "Oval Brilliant" or "Oval Modified Brilliant"?
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,301
Direct sunlight will do weird things to a diamond........I don't care how well any diamond is cut- there will be lighting scenarios where it does not show it's ultimate beauty......
 

yveevee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
11
I've included an indoor video and outdoor video for better viewing for suggestions on whether the bow tie is a bad bow tie. We are in need of suggestions whether we should take it back or not. I do love how it looks in all lighting when the bow tie isn't very prominent.

outdoor

indoor
 

yveevee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
11
Would you say I shouldn't be too worried about the bow tie on this diamond then? It seems that you're suggesting it isn't a bad bow tie. We just have not seen enough to really compare what is acceptable bow tie and what is not an acceptable bow tie.


Direct sunlight will do weird things to a diamond........I don't care how well any diamond is cut- there will be lighting scenarios where it does not show it's ultimate beauty......
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,301
Would you say I shouldn't be too worried about the bow tie on this diamond then?
Yes, worrying is bad for the health and mental well being. So stop it:)

Look- no one looking at the pictures or video will be able to accurately assess the diamond. No one looking at an ASET image can tell you if it's a great diamond for you.
There's a tremendous amount of personal taste involved......do you love your diamond?
 

yveevee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
11
I do love it. But the bow tie is really quite bothersome also, it seems to me as if it is a bad bow tie. Ideally I'll like to find one which does not have that affect in the sun. But we have not been able to find one.... beginning to wonder if they even exist....i have read that others are able to locate them so we just have not had that luck so far

Yes, worrying is bad for the health and mental well being. So stop it:)

Look- no one looking at the pictures or video will be able to accurately assess the diamond. No one looking at an ASET image can tell you if it's a great diamond for you.
There's a tremendous amount of personal taste involved......do you love your diamond?
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,301
I'll quote myself here.....
I don't care how well any diamond is cut- there will be lighting scenarios where it does not show it's ultimate beauty......
Ideally I'll like to find one which does not have that affect in the sun. But we have not been able to find one.... beginning to wonder if they even exist...
No, they don't......
I think you're looking for a unicorn.......
 

Rose-gold-or-bust

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
314
Well cut round diamonds often go dark in the sun. The darkness is all over because well round cut diamonds reflect light all over. Ovals reflect light the best in the middle and sometimes the very tips of the oval so when you go in the sun, those are the areas most likely to look dark.

Look for some that you love in most lighting and don’t stress over how it looks in the sun.
 

KKJohnson

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
1,809
Are you looking to trade diamond in with the same jeweler or are you going to return the current ring?

IF you really don't want a bowtie then I suggest August Vintage, but they do face up smaller then the average oval due to the emanation of the bow tie. You have a healthy budget and I would contact him asking if he can get you want you want in a the LxW of the size you desire. Your jeweler will not be be able to source this diamonds as this is not a drop shipper.


All that said I do agree, you do have a lovely stone.
 

Wewechew

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
1,981
I like your current oval. Yes, it has a bow tie, but I think that’s part of it’s charm. In the pictures you provided it seems your oval glows in the sun. I think it’s beautiful. But, at the end of the day, you are the one that will be wearing it.
 

yveevee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
11
Are you looking to trade diamond in with the same jeweler or are you going to return the current ring?

IF you really don't want a bowtie then I suggest August Vintage, but they do face up smaller then the average oval due to the emanation of the bow tie. You have a healthy budget and I would contact him asking if he can get you want you want in a the LxW of the size you desire. Your jeweler will not be be able to source this diamonds as this is not a drop shipper.


All that said I do agree, you do have a lovely stone.
I was debating whether to trade it back in depending on how the opinions were on this bow tie. It seems the feedback has been good though!
 

SouthernElle

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
233
Hi All!!
This part is a myth that somehow keeps getting repeated. Not all ovals have a Bow Tie.
There's many different styles of cutting ovals- some which completely eliminate a bow tie effect. Nor will a consumer need to pay the price of a branded diamond, or accept one that's overly deep to eliminate a bow tie in an oval as some of the branded diamonds are very deep.

Having said all that- some of the prettiest colorless Oval Brilliant Diamonds have different sized facets in the middle- as compared to the tips. IN general, that's what causes a "bad bow tie"....but in other cases, the area in the middle lights up, instead of going dark.

@yveevee - the pics are not exactly conclusive- but in three of them, the diamond looks to be cut in a way that eliminates the bow tie.
On the GIA report- is the stone classified as "Oval Brilliant" or "Oval Modified Brilliant"?
I was stating a different cut than the brilliant she has, not a cut other than an oval.
 

SouthernElle

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 12, 2019
Messages
233
I was debating whether to trade it back in depending on how the opinions were on this bow tie. It seems the feedback has been good though!
Given the investment, personally I would ask my jeweler for more options, even if just to compare. I don’t think you’ll necessarily find one you like better, but having that confirmation could help put your mind at ease. I feel like after seeing mine in person I knew I wouldn’t be happy. I also now know more of what to look for in ASET / light performance images. I think I’m better prepared going forward to find the right one.

Good luck! It already looks beautiful on you, so either way you’ll have a beautiful ring.
 

Lykame

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
1,385
Regardless of what anyone here says, it doesn't sound like you love your oval?

It may be a beautiful diamond, but if the only thing you think when you look at it is 'can I see the bow tie? No - relief! Yes - oh no I hate it!' then you may kick yourself for not acting on those feelings whilst you have the opportunity. If it bothers you now it's likely to continue to do so and that shouldn't really be your experience of your very special engagement ring, I don't think.

I'm not a bow tie person myself, so if I wanted that particular shape I would definitely go with something like August Vintage, which will face up smaller but won't have the bow tie. I would personally strongly consider compromising down to an E or F colour to re-boost up the size again, and if there are cultural reasons for the D I would really hope E would still be ok... But only you and your partner can make that decision.

I definitely think you should at least look into all of that. =)2

Finally if you can't find an oval without a bow tie via the means available to you and it really bothers you then perhaps oval isn't the shape for you?

Best of luck with your decision making! And remember that only you can decide what is right for you, none of us! Don't be made to feel that what you have is good enough if you don't feel that way. Equally is you see lots of ovals it may well be that you have the best of the bunch for the type of oval you have, in which case enjoy it if you feel comfortable with it! Sometimes this process is the very thing that makes you realise that what you have is perfect for you!

Good luck!
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,508
IMO your bow tie is extremely minimal, your diamond is gorgeous, and I wouldn’t change a thing!

Some facets of diamonds go darker in sunlight - this is normal and the only way to prevent it would be an entirely crushed-ice type facet pattern. Search and you’ll see that ideal cut diamonds go almost entirely dark in the sun. I wouldn’t worry about it. A bad bow tie would show up in all lighting situations (whether dark or allowing your finger to be seen through the stone). Yours isn’t visible in the first three pics, in the pic where it IS visible the stone is tilted (most stones will have “tilt windows” and not show their best tilted), and in the video where it is visible it is BARELY so. Imo it’s a good bow tie.

Of course, if it’s still too much for you there is always the option of other types of oval cuts, but you’d probably need to go to vendors who have ovals in stock, custom cut them, or have the ability to see many in person and hand-select them. If your jeweler is ordering from virtual inventory based on stats without pictures/videos it would be nearly impossible to find an oval with no bow tie, and that you have one with a minimal one is already very uncommon.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Oct 11, 2011
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5,508
1570525210654.jpeg

Here is a little set of pictures I put together for someone else with some examples of oval types. The first is the August Vintage Elqyque by @Rhino (I suspect this would be overall dark in sunlight, as the pattern is like a round brilliant), the second is one from @Rockdiamond with no bow tie (close to what you have but the facets in the middle are smaller rather than larger like yours), the third is a minimal bow tie (what you have, except I think yours looks even better), and the fourth is a pretty standard one. The third and fourth are basically the same “type” of oval, but different enough so the bow tie is minimized in one and not the other. Only the first one is a branded cut.

If it bothers you enough to exchange but you still want an oval, it’s good to look at videos of a few different types to decide which kind you like most.
 

yveevee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
11
1570525210654.jpeg

Here is a little set of pictures I put together for someone else with some examples of oval types. The first is the August Vintage Elqyque by @Rhino (I suspect this would be overall dark in sunlight, as the pattern is like a round brilliant), the second is one from @Rockdiamond with no bow tie (close to what you have but the facets in the middle are smaller rather than larger like yours), the third is a minimal bow tie (what you have, except I think yours looks even better), and the fourth is a pretty standard one. The third and fourth are basically the same “type” of oval, but different enough so the bow tie is minimized in one and not the other. Only the first one is a branded cut.

If it bothers you enough to exchange but you still want an oval, it’s good to look at videos of a few different types to decide which kind you like most.
Thanks for all the feedback. I am set on an oval style as I adore it. I love my current ring and given all the reassurance the bow tie is minimal I'm looking to keep it! It is good to compare a few more ovals so I'll be doing that this week, out of what I have seen so far in person the one I have is definitely still my favorite.

To answer the question how my jeweler is sourcing the diamonds, he did mention he picks them out himself and he travels quite a bit. I would think he is sourcing them internationally and not just online (virtual inventory.) There is also a system he showed us where he can check the stats of what is available and he told me that there was currently nothing available with similar stats of the one I currently have.

In regards to it going dark in the sun, I have seen that in other diamonds and the whole diamond goes dark as you had shared.
 

KKJohnson

Brilliant_Rock
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1,809

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Oct 11, 2011
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5,508
Here are some very nice diamonds that can help give a reference to what you should be looking for in any ovals you review with your jeweler, if you decide to change it out with another



Based on OP’s pics and videos, it looks like her diamond is very very close to 1 and 3 and a bit farther from 2 (which has something different going on with the faceting). Looking for an example of something like she already has isn’t really going to be useful one way or another. Unless you’re seeing something that you think is less good than these diamonds? I’m just not seeing a bad bow tie in her diamond but a fairly minimal, well-performing one, which is what the diamonds you linked have. They’re probably going to have the center area darker in sunlight too though, which is where OP is seeing the problem (again, maybe not diamond 2, I can’t really tell from t he studio video).
 

Victorypie928

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
2
hi Yevee - would love to hear what you decided on! I am in the same situation. have a beautiful oval that looks great in most soft lightning.. but under direct sun light or very bright light theres darkening across belly and the tip.. i love the fire in my stone but am tormented over whether i should return it because of the bow tie in direct strong lighting.. Let me know what decisino you ended up making :)

so glad to see that someone else has this issue and i am not the only one! seems to be an oval probem
 

tyty333

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@Victorypie928 See the quote below your quote. This is what is going on.

hi Yevee - would love to hear what you decided on! I am in the same situation. have a beautiful oval that looks great in most soft lightning.. but under direct sun light or very bright light theres darkening across belly and the tip.. i love the fire in my stone but am tormented over whether i should return it because of the bow tie in direct strong lighting.. Let me know what decisino you ended up making :)

so glad to see that someone else has this issue and i am not the only one! seems to be an oval probem

Well cut round diamonds often go dark in the sun. The darkness is all over because well round cut diamonds reflect light all over. Ovals reflect light the best in the middle and sometimes the very tips of the oval so when you go in the sun, those are the areas most likely to look dark.

Look for some that you love in most lighting and don’t stress over how it looks in the sun.
 
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