Order of operations

[po720]

Hello all! Would anyone have experience with a start to finish project that included finding an old unmarked piece that need to be unmounted, sent to GIA, appraised, insured, reset in a new design? I have a family heirloom that holds as much sentimental value as it’s potential material value (it’s big but I have no clue what the other specs are). I am the only one in the family that even insured my ering, so even though the piece isn’t mine, I thought I could be helpful in getting this done.

I worked with yekutiel from IDJ years ago per the recs of a few PS’rs in resetting my ering and he did a fabulous job; would it be worth contacting him to work on this one or any others? I’ve seen the work of Steven kirsch and Leon Mege around on PS? I know victor canera does a beautiful job, but he only works with his own stones iirc?

We are super concerned about letting the piece out of our sight/ afraid it will be swapped out before having the stone inscribed/marked; has anyone actually experienced a reputable jeweler doing something like that? Is it a valid fear when working with these top guys that have so much on the line and are surrounded by the most unbelievable stones all the time? I don’t want to be naive but I’m also not trying to insult anyone before signing up for this long haul process.

Thank you so much in advance and so looking forward to your thoughts/ideas!!

 

[sledge]

Prior to letting the stone out of your sight, have you considered taking it to a LOCAL appraiser that can examine the stone in your presence? Doing so would allow them to create an inclusion plot that would be unique to your stone and serve as an identifier to prevent any incidental, or intentional, swaps.

Also, it would give you a starting point to get insurance on everything before you start shipping across the country for certification, inscribing, etc.

 

[po720]

@sledge thank you so much for your reply! I’m close to midtown nyc so idj and even GIA are actually super convenient - it’s just the potential out of sight/swap factor that is the biggest issue. So do you think it makes sense to take it to idj or a totally different appraiser to get it taken out and have the inclusion plot done before sending to GIA/getting insurance (or insurance first, before sending to GIA), etc.?

 

[stonewell]

I’ve had stones removed while I observed - not sure if Yekutiel’s set-up can accommodate that or not. If so, I’d skip plotting the inclusions and take it straight over to GIA.

Make sure it remains insured during the unsetting process. GIA will insure while the stone is in their possession. Depending on who resets it, they may or may not insure it. So, I would update the coverage to just a loose stone after the grading occurs to cover your bases.

If you’re concerned about the time period between unsetting and transporting to GIA, I’m sure IDJ can give you a write-up with the stats. Then you can contact the insurer before leaving the store.

 

[foxinsox]

We are super concerned about letting the piece out of our sight/ afraid it will be swapped out before having the stone inscribed/marked; has anyone actually experienced a reputable jeweler doing something like that? Is it a valid fear when working with these top guys that have so much on the line and are surrounded by the most unbelievable stones all the time? I don’t want to be naive but I’m also not trying to insult anyone before signing up for this long haul process.

I would think it is not a realistic fear when working with the top guys who have loads of big gorgeous stones already. Their reputations are more valuable than whatever $$ one diamond would net them. Do you have pictures of this heirloom? If I were you, I’d get a loupe or macro lens and take a bunch of pictures of the stone as it is now to create a record of what it looks like before anything happens.
Also I’m sure we’d love to see some pictures of it!

 

[Octo2005]

If this is a true antique stone, you might want to reconsider having it inscribed. When I purchased my OEC, I had planned to add the inscription, for ease of identification. I was advised by several old stone posters not to touch the girdle and that infact the frosted unmarked girdle was an asset in authenticating a stone as an antique.

 

[MollyMalone]

Do you have some "inspiration pics" that depict settings you're contemplating as the new home for the stone? Seeing those would help us help you decide whom you will commission to fabricate the ring.

I can personally recommend David Wolf (Just Appraisers) on 5th Ave between the Diamond District & Rockefeller Center. Other PSers & Yelpsters also have given him positive reviews:
https://justappraisers.com
https://www.yelp.com/biz/just-appraisers-new-york
Also, he's well acquainted with old cuts & that "niche" market.

Think if I were you, I would meet with David, have *him* pull the stone, and sit with him as he examines it while loose -- he's very personable & informative; it's like having your own, personalized mini-tutorial on diamonds. Then he could give you a final appraisal report after seeing the completed ring. Call in advance to make an appointment & of course discuss the fee for this 2-part process.

 

[po720]

Thank you so much for the rec @MollyMalone, I will definitely contact David; his reviews are impeccable!

I didn’t even consider that the inscription might detract from the value, thank you for that insight @Octo2005 !! I was only shown the piece by an older family member yesterday and told about wanting to reset it, etc. so we didn’t get into what kind of designs or styles, only that it’s coming out of its current shell

@foxinsox I wish I had pics of the collection, it’s really something to behold, but alas, I’m just the millennial they come to for help. Nothing is in my actual possession Between all the pieces i think it’s something like 25-30 cts so I’m actually relieved I don’t have the burden of taking care of it all lol

 

[po720]

Thank you @stonewell, I think you are right about idj not being able to do it in front of you. My ering reset was done with my stone out of sight and I remember just having to remind myself that they are super reputable and it wouldn’t make sense for them to swap my stone for what it would do to their reputation - but the stories about all kinds of shady jewelers are out there to scare you if you’re not already! Thankfully my ering was insured so I was more at ease and after working with yekutiel, I was even more comfortable knowing I was in such good hands.
These pieces are gifts from great grandpa to great grandma that were passed down so the elder family members are super protective and old school. I have my work cut out for me just finding them vendors and pointing them in the right direction to get this all taken care of.

 

[canuk-gal]

Thank you so much for the rec @MollyMalone, I will definitely contact David; his reviews are impeccable!



@foxinsox I wish I had pics of the collection, it’s really something to behold, but alas, I’m just the millennial they come to for help. Nothing is in my actual possession Between all the pieces i think it’s something like 25-30 cts so I’m actually relieved I don’t have the burden of taking care of it all lol

Of such consequence anyone would take care. Success to you!

 

[WinkHPD]

@sledge thank you so much for your reply! I’m close to midtown nyc so idj and even GIA are actually super convenient - it’s just the potential out of sight/swap factor that is the biggest issue. So do you think it makes sense to take it to idj or a totally different appraiser to get it taken out and have the inclusion plot done before sending to GIA/getting insurance (or insurance first, before sending to GIA), etc.?

I understand your concern, although it almost never happens, especially with reputable vendors. I knew a reputable jeweler who had a craftsman accidentally swap two diamonds so that each client got the wrong diamond in their ring. It was actually discovered when one of the clients brought their ring in after a year to have the original appraisal updated.

The jeweler immediately notified the client and when he was assured that no one else had worked on the ring he checked his records and was able to find which client was most likely to have the other client's diamond. He was fortunate in that he was correct and both clients were happy to have their original diamond back. So, I will not say it never happens, but it is exceedingly rare and never intentional with a reputable jeweler. (That is the reason they get the reputation as reputable over the years!)

However, here is what I recommend to make your mind more at ease. Take the diamond, still mounted, to a jeweler with a microscope. Make yourself a diagram of the internal characteristics of the diamond. If there is something there that is easily identifiable, that is even better.

Then, and only then, have the diamond unmounted and submit the diamond to the GIA for grading. When you get the diamond back, verify the diagram that you made and breath a sigh of relief. You now have visual proof that the diamond is yours, and you also have the report so that you have some level of proof that this is YOUR diamond.

When your new mounting is finished, you can again inspect the diamond through a microscope and know for sure it is the diamond you brought to the dance.

If you wish to have the ring that you have made appraised, and personally, I think you should, you will also be able to share the color and clarity as graded by GIA with your appraiser so that he/she can enter the report information onto the appraisal.

I have had many clients come into my office with the same fears you have. By letting them get to know their diamond under the scope, they became completely comfortable with the whole process. So comfortable I only had very few actually ask to see the diamond under the scope when I delivered the ring, the others I had to remind.

Wink

 

[po720]

I understand your concern, although it almost never happens, especially with reputable vendors. I knew a reputable jeweler who had a craftsman accidentally swap two diamonds so that each client got the wrong diamond in their ring. It was actually discovered when one of the clients brought their ring in after a year to have the original appraisal updated.

The jeweler immediately notified the client and when he was assured that no one else had worked on the ring he checked his records and was able to find which client was most likely to have the other client's diamond. He was fortunate in that he was correct and both clients were happy to have their original diamond back. So, I will not say it never happens, but it is exceedingly rare and never intentional with a reputable jeweler. (That is the reason they get the reputation as reputable over the years!)

However, here is what I recommend to make your mind more at ease. Take the diamond, still mounted, to a jeweler with a microscope. Make yourself a diagram of the internal characteristics of the diamond. If there is something there that is easily identifiable, that is even better.

Then, and only then, have the diamond unmounted and submit the diamond to the GIA for grading. When you get the diamond back, verify the diagram that you made and breath a sigh of relief. You now have visual proof that the diamond is yours, and you also have the report so that you have some level of proof that this is YOUR diamond.

When your new mounting is finished, you can again inspect the diamond through a microscope and know for sure it is the diamond you brought to the dance.

If you wish to have the ring that you have made appraised, and personally, I think you should, you will also be able to share the color and clarity as graded by GIA with your appraiser so that he/she can enter the report information onto the appraisal.

I have had many clients come into my office with the same fears you have. By letting them get to know their diamond under the scope, they became completely comfortable with the whole process. So comfortable I only had very few actually ask to see the diamond under the scope when I delivered the ring, the others I had to remind.

Wink

Thank you @Wink for this layout, that was exactly what I was looking for in terms of a start to finish approach to layout for this project. I had an idea of the different parts, but not exactly which one to execute first, etc.

Thank you all for the thoughtful advice replies, I am personally excited for the before/after and hope to share along the journey!

 

[MollyMalone]

HI, @po720 I suggested you first take the current ring to David Wolf & have him remove the stone for GIA to grade because that way, you can get the GIA report done while you -- and your family members? (not sure if you have complete autonomy with respect to the choices?) -- decide what the new setting will be, and who will fabricate it. The design of the new setting, and the budget, should be the driving factors in the decision of whom you all commission (that's why I asked if you had assembled any inspiration pics). E.g., you wouldn't want to ask Steven Kretchmer, well known for his tension mountings,
https://stevenkretchmer.com/collections/engagement
to produce something like Steven Kirsch's Amelia
http://stevenkirsch.com/gallery/ring-amelia-halo-diamonds-platinum/
-- or vice versa

ETA: if you'd prefer to follow the path that Wink proposed, how about if we help you get squared away on the design, and maker, of the new ring?

 

[scarsmum]

I think it’s rilly rilly important that we see this stone.

 

[foxinsox]

I think it’s rilly rilly important that we see this stone.

And the rest of the treasure trove even in their current old settings, we don’t mind!!

 

[rockysalamander]

I have another option for you. Would you be willing to travel to Texas? You could work with Brian Gavin and hand-carry the diamond to him. Have him or his staff makes a plot for you. Why Brian? I'm assuming that these diamonds may have actually been worn. Old cut diamonds often have fragile girdles and 'flea bites' and chips are an unfortunate reality. BG could pull the stone and inspect it for any damage. He can tell you if that damaged is cosmetic and can stay or needs to be polished or the stone rehabbed. Brian can send the stone to GIA for grading, though I don't think that is actually necessary for old cuts if you have some identifiable inclusions or cutting patterns. Then, you could work with BG on a setting or any number of good custom designers we can recommend.

I would ask BG for an appraisal to obtain insurance for the stone (Jewellers Mutual is the only one that I know of that covers unset stones).

If you work it out with BG in advance, you might be able to do this all in a single trip and hand-deliver the stone in both directions.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/

 

[MollyMalone]

I can't remember the last time (if ever) that I found myself disagreeing with @rockysalamander but I honestly don't think anyone who lives/works in NYC needs to spend the money & time to travel to Texas.

Since the family apparently has no interest, for whatever reasons, in keeping this ring of the OP's great-grandmother intact & will be wanting the center diamond pulled, it's a perfect opportunity to take the loose stone to the GIA lab in NYC for a lab report -- documentation that's becoming increasingly the norm for old cuts. And a nice plus imo if the ring might be sold in the future or included in a divvying-up of a larger collection.

Of course, there is at least the theoretical possibility that the diamond is a dud & and maybe not worth paying for an independent lab report (or insurance premiums) -- just because a diamond is an old cut doesn't mean it's a keeper for other than sentimental reasons. But an evaluation of cut and condition too is one that David Wolf can-will provide, and much as I respect Brian Gavin, I wouldn't look to him for an appraisal with monetary value of an old cut diamond.