Orange fluor in a greenish/yellow diamond

[T L]

Does Orange fluor in a greenish yellow diamond almost always mean that it''s HPHT color treated?

 

[Lorelei]

Not sure on this one TL, orange fluorescence can occur naturally but it would be good to know more though concerning your question.

 

[dkodner]

I have only played with a few HPHT colored diamonds, so I am not the expert here, but I know of a lot of my chameleons (which are greenish yellow) have a strong orange fluorescence, so I would say that statement is not true. I have always heard that a strong indicator of HPHT in that colored diamond is an intense green fluorescence. I think was was from a GIA article years ago. It would still only be one small component of identification.

I did find this from a Modern Jeweler article from this year about detecting HPHT.

NEW HPHT Detection Clue

EGL USA has discovered a visual clue that a diamond has been high pressure-high temperature treated. The "fluorescence cage," a specific luminous intersecting pattern along the cut edges and vertices of facets, can be seen with a fluorescence microscope. It is visible in colored HPHT-treated Ia diamonds with less than strong fluorescence.

Dr. Inga Dobrinets of EGL USA completed the research identifying the cage, in collaboration with Professor Alexander Zaitsev of the College of Staten Island/CUNY. Early research indicates that the effect results from the movement of optically active impurities, triggered by the HPHT process.

"The visual observation of a fluorescence cage appears to be the most reliable feature used so far for the reporting of HPHT treatment," says Dr. Dobrinets. "A significant advantage of the cage-based identification is its comprehensive fidelity and technical simplicity. While the ''cage effect'' may not appear on all HPHT-treated stones, when it is evident, a conclusive identification can be made on that basis alone."




I hope that helps!

 

[T L]

Thanks for the replies. Dkodner, that's some diamond you have there in your avatar - looks like it came from the Pink Tender. WOW!!

I have a couple of olive green stones (like the color of a green olive - brownish yellowish green) that both have orange fluor. I was just wondering if these were HPHT treated to eliminate some of the brown component.

 

[dkodner]

Thanks tourmaline_lover. It''s a .51ct Fancy Purplish Red, part of the Morningstar Collection. It is an Argyle stone, from an early tender....

My gut would say they are not treated if they fluoresce orange, but they can always be checked. Olives are typically very reasonably priced stones, so I would think the effort to treat and eliminate brown would not be profitable. Have you played with them under short-wave UV light ? or gently heated them ? you never know, they may have a chameleon effect if they are olive.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Orange fluorescence would point me towards natural, rather than treated.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Thanks for the "fluorescence cage" clue, Dave!

 

[T L]

Thanks for everyone''s expert opinion. Here''s one of the diamonds in question - 40 points. I had wondered about it because the color is so greenish olive.

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 10/31/2009 12:26:26 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Thanks for everyone's expert opinion. Here's one of the diamonds in question - 40 points. I had wondered about it because the color is so greenish olive.

1) The recently published fluoresent cage effect MAY be seen in some saturated coloed fancy colored diamonds, but the absensence od such an effect does not mean natural
2) Salmon/oranish colored luminescence is seen also both natural stone, and the salmon color, to my knowledge is characteristic of CVD single crystal under SW UV.


I am not sure but the color of the luminescence , could either be relrted to 637nmNV centers or , and since it is also seen (salmon) in CVD to possibly Hydrogen rich, which also occurs naturally, but I've not seen anything definatively on this, however. It might be out there in the literature I am unaware of.

The Hope SW luminescence is red, as an aside...

Once I get straightened out in my new place, I know I have one or two orange luminescent natural crystal samples I haven't carefully looked at, and might see what they show under PL/Raman.
G&G 1997 had a good article on flurescence, but I don't remember them speaking directly to causes of orange luminescence.

BTW, I don't know thatif a natural orange luminescent diamond, usually nitrogen containing, were HPHT to get the green transmitter type of color, whether or not the process would necessarily destroy the orange luminescence, which is something to consider, and which color would predominate under either LW or SW excitation

 

[platinumrock]

Date: 10/31/2009 12:26:26 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Thanks for everyone''s expert opinion. Here''s one of the diamonds in question - 40 points. I had wondered about it because the color is so greenish olive.

What a beautiful color, treated or not.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/31/2009 10:40:57 PM
Author: platinumrock

Date: 10/31/2009 12:26:26 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Thanks for everyone''s expert opinion. Here''s one of the diamonds in question - 40 points. I had wondered about it because the color is so greenish olive.

What a beautiful color, treated or not.

Thanks PR,
I''m looking for another one the same size, and it''s hard to find that exact match.

I want them as sides stones for a brownish pink I have.

 

[platinumrock]

Date: 10/31/2009 11:35:30 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 10/31/2009 10:40:57 PM
Author: platinumrock

Date: 10/31/2009 12:26:26 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Thanks for everyone''s expert opinion. Here''s one of the diamonds in question - 40 points. I had wondered about it because the color is so greenish olive.

What a beautiful color, treated or not.

Thanks PR,
I''m looking for another one the same size, and it''s hard to find that exact match.

I want them as sides stones for a brownish pink I have.

Pink and green...that would be lovely! Is this a new project, TL?

 

[LD]

TL on the GIA report with my brownish greenish yellow Chameleon it says it has strong yellow fluor. To be honest when I shine my UV on it, I don''t see yellow fluor, I see an odd sort of fluor - but who am I to argue with the GIA?

 

[T L]

Date: 11/1/2009 10:31:47 AM
Author: platinumrock

Pink and green...that would be lovely! Is this a new project, TL?

Oh, it''s been an ongoing project for some time. LOL!!

 

[T L]

Date: 11/1/2009 10:39:14 AM
Author: LovingDiamonds
TL on the GIA report with my brownish greenish yellow Chameleon it says it has strong yellow fluor. To be honest when I shine my UV on it, I don''t see yellow fluor, I see an odd sort of fluor - but who am I to argue with the GIA?

LD,
Do you shine your UV on it in a completely dark black room? It''s easier to sometimes see the fluor color that way. What do you mean when you say "odd sort of fluor?" ''

The fluor on my olive diamonds is distinctly orange, even in a lit room. I should take a pic one of these days.

 

[LD]

Both photos taken using the same UV light and in the same lighting conditions.

This is my white diamond with strong blue fluor

 

[LD]

This is my chameleon that has strong yellow fluor (apparently)! Ok, I can see it''s different from the strong blue fluor but I''m not sure I''d call this yellow!!!

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 11/1/2009 11:03:53 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 11/1/2009 10:39:14 AM
Author: LovingDiamonds
TL on the GIA report with my brownish greenish yellow Chameleon it says it has strong yellow fluor. To be honest when I shine my UV on it, I don''t see yellow fluor, I see an odd sort of fluor - but who am I to argue with the GIA?

LD,
Do you shine your UV on it in a completely dark black room? It''s easier to sometimes see the fluor color that way. What do you mean when you say ''odd sort of fluor?'' ''

The fluor on my olive diamonds is distinctly orange, even in a lit room. I should take a pic one of these days.

When you guys (or gals) are describing color, what type of UV are you using...
The "standard" BLB flourescent, the small black GIA LW/SW fixture (with a Woods glass filter) or cluster or single LEDs..

Some will give different percieved colors... The "standard" is supposed to be excitations from either monochromatic 254nm (SW) or 365nm (LW) Hg lines, but in reality you get from fluorescent sources, a continum of the Hg lines, with primary contributions from the 365, and secondary from the 404/407 doublet and possibly 436nm. If you are using UV Leds, they come in a series of nominal wavelengths, 365nm being the most expensive, then they are available at 375nm and 405 and 425 (quazi UV) being the common cheap and readily available so called "UV" light.

Using LEDs will give you distinct luminescent color differences... Just a question about the probale cause of "orange" that wasn''t specifically addressed..

 

[platinumrock]

Date: 11/1/2009 11:58:30 AM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Both photos taken using the same UV light and in the same lighting conditions.

This is my white diamond with strong blue fluor

COME TO MAMA!!!! Look at the blue!

 

[T L]

Date: 11/1/2009 8:19:30 PM
Author: platinumrock

Date: 11/1/2009 11:58:30 AM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Both photos taken using the same UV light and in the same lighting conditions.

This is my white diamond with strong blue fluor

COME TO MAMA!!!! Look at the blue!

Don't you wish that was the real color and not just the fluor? Nice diamonds LD!!

 

[stepcutnut]

Date: 10/29/2009 11:44:11 PM
Author:tourmaline_lover
Does Orange fluor in a greenish yellow diamond almost always mean that it's HPHT color treated?

TL-I have a Chameleon pear that has orange fluor and is natural in color, graded by the GIA-so I'd say no, not always Lovely stone by the way, good luck finding a match!

 

[T L]

Date: 11/2/2009 8:47:37 AM
Author: stepcutnut

Date: 10/29/2009 11:44:11 PM
Author:tourmaline_lover
Does Orange fluor in a greenish yellow diamond almost always mean that it''s HPHT color treated?

TL-I have a Chameleon pear that has orange fluor and is natural in color, graded by the GIA-so I''d say no, not always Lovely stone by the way, good luck finding a match!

Thanks SCN,
I just bought this 1.5 carat one, so we''ll see what that fluors when I get it.

 

[LD]

Beautiful new diamond TL! Does the vendor say what colour fluor it may have?

I''ve just taken some more photos of my chameleon''s fluor and it IS yellow! I think my camera was having an odd moment before!

 

[T L]

Date: 11/2/2009 3:59:49 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Beautiful new diamond TL! Does the vendor say what colour fluor it may have?

I''ve just taken some more photos of my chameleon''s fluor and it IS yellow! I think my camera was having an odd moment before!

Thank you LD!! Saw your new asscher in the other thread, Hoping it''s a chameleon!!

All the olive, grey and yellow diamonds I have do have some sort of fluor. I''m expecting this one will as well, but I do not know until I get it.

 

[platinumrock]

Date: 11/2/2009 12:57:05 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 11/2/2009 8:47:37 AM
Author: stepcutnut

Date: 10/29/2009 11:44:11 PM
Author:tourmaline_lover
Does Orange fluor in a greenish yellow diamond almost always mean that it''s HPHT color treated?

TL-I have a Chameleon pear that has orange fluor and is natural in color, graded by the GIA-so I''d say no, not always Lovely stone by the way, good luck finding a match!

Thanks SCN,
I just bought this 1.5 carat one, so we''ll see what that fluors when I get it.

Look at those arrows!!!

 

[T L]

PR,
Here's my selection of various yellow-greens. The one all the way to the left is a 60 point greyish purple color. In any case, the new one is the one smack in the middle and it's 40 points. The other one next to it, to the right, it the very olive green one that I posted way. These two have orange fluor. Really bad picture, but they're small, so it's hard to focus. I am looking for two matching greenish stones to go around the greyish purple one, but having no luck.

 

[T L]

Here''s a closeup of the more deep olive green one that has the orange fluor (circled) next to the greyish purple and a greenish yellow. The head shadow makes the colors darker than they truly are, but at least this is an in focus shot (with my old icky camera).

 

[stone-cold11]

Nice selections of stones. Wish I had those.

 

[platinumrock]

Date: 11/2/2009 11:05:45 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
PR,
Here's my selection of various yellow-greens. The one all the way to the left is a 60 point greyish purple color. In any case, the new one is the one smack in the middle and it's 40 points. The other one next to it, to the right, it the very olive green one that I posted way. These two have orange fluor. Really bad picture, but they're small, so it's hard to focus. I am looking for two matching greenish stones to go around the greyish purple one, but having no luck.

I love the light, creamy shade of the 40 pointer and the olive green has really good saturation! Both have to be my favorites in the line-up. But I can't to wait to see the 1.5 though! I have a feeling that one is going show more pure green and it's going to be a fireball because of the cut!

 

[T L]

Date: 10/30/2009 10:17:10 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Thanks for the 'fluorescence cage' clue, Dave!

If a synthetic diamond does fluor, will it always exhibit cage fluor though?