Opinions please? Ebay Tsav.

[Aven]

Yesterday while browsing around ebay for kicks and giggles I can across a stone that has me interested and concerned at the same time. I don't typically fall into these too good to be true gimics but this one may have caught me. The listing is for 2+ tsav, about 9x7mm. Its an auction but the starting bid is low and it doesn't have long left on the bid time. It has one photo, which I have attempted to scrutinize with out any answers either way. I am a photographer by profession and have dabbled in jewelry and gem photography, and am very familiar with retouching and its results, so typically on ebay its not super difficult to know when a stone has been p-shoped or dropped in, or other ploys sellers use to get you to think its an "amazing" stone. But I don't have a lot of experience with synthetics... and this is what I wondering if this stone is.

I did contact the seller (who btw doesn't seem to be in the jewelry/gem business, they only have three or four other stones up, the rest of their listing are antiques and old car parts, all seem to be items collected through life) and asked if there were any inclusions loupe visible or eye visible and if it was possible to see more photos of the stone, including one on the hand. The seller responded that no inclusions were seen when the stone was louped. I do know that synthetics are made flawlessly, so this could be a good hint its not natural. The seller also said that they bought the stone years ago (didn't say how many) and it was sold to them as a tsavorite. They said they may have some paper work on it and that they would try and find it and get back to me.
I in turn asked whether it was purchased from a jeweler/jewelry store or personal seller.

Now what do you guys think?

Can jewelers test stones for being natural or synthetic or is that a lab sort of issue? There is a return policy of 7 days but I have asked that if I was to bid and win if the sale could be contingent on getting the stone tested to see if it was real or not, we will see what the seller says about that.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Opinions please?

If there was ever a post that screamed for Pandora, this is it! I'm sure she'll stop by soon.

Personally, I would be wary if it was truly flawless because it doesn't sound like the seller is very knowledgeable.

Edited for errors

 

[Aven]

Re: Opinions please?

Minous that's my thought too, perhaps the seller was duped when they purchased this stone and just doesn't know any better? I mean I hope to the stars that not the case but I am also not naive about the probability of this being the usual to good to be true ebay scenario.

I do hope Pandora stops by and is able to give some advice, I would appreciate it.

 

[Aven]

This may be a dumb question but how common are tsavorite garnet synthetics?

 

[T L]

This may be a dumb question but how common are tsavorite garnet synthetics?

There are no synthetic grossulars that I know of, but there are simulants, like YAG, and other green synthetics, or even natural stones like the less valuable chrome diopside, are sold as tsavorites. Always buy from a reputable dealer. Did you read the feedback of that seller, and check toolhaus.org for negative feedback?

 

[Aven]

TL thats another iffy thing about this seller is they only have 3 histories of feedback in the last year, all good but only 3. I am just not sure what to do here. I don't want my wishfulness and hopefulness of a possible great find to cost me in the end. I have called one of the two jewelers in my area I trust and know and asked about the ability to get it tested, he said that he would be able to send it to his stone guy and get an answer, but I doubt it would be with in the 7 day return range, especially with the holidays right around the corner. And I haven't heard back about whether the seller would be willing to accept the stone back after that time period if I found out it wasn't what it was sold as.

 

[Aven]

I am wondering about it being YAG, I have seen some similar tsav color YAG. In the photo it doesn't quite have yellow tones that diopside can have but it could just be the white balance.

 

[Pandora II]

It looks nice - and tsavs can be very clean...

The thing that worries me a bit is that the photograph is so good. I'm a big ebay bargain hunter and the times that I've got something where they didn't know what it was is when the photo has been very snapshot like.

If you are going to make this much effort with a photograph, why wouldn't you make a bit more and check out the going rate. That said, you haven't said exactly how cheap the stone is or isn't.

There are synthetic forms of 'garnet' on the market - Gadolinium Gallium Garnet or GGG and Yttrium Aluminum Garnet or YAG being the ones I have heard of being used as lab-created tsavorite. They're not true synthetics (which must have the same optical, physical and chemical properties as the natural) but they can look similar.

Any old jeweller probably won't be able to tell - you need someone who can check the RI for you, check if it's singly or doubly refractive and maybe check the spectrum. You don't need to send it to a lab though - just try and find a jeweller who is a GG or similar.

 

[Pandora II]

Gosh, no wonder my ears were burning! I only just saw the other posts...

It really should be a very simple job for a gemmologist. I would be able to tell you if it was a grossular garnet in about 3 minutes and that would include the time needed to get the refractometer out of the box!

If you do decide to take the plunge then I would see if you can find a jeweller with some gemmological qualifications who can take a quick look-see for you. Worth maybe phoning around.

YAG has a much higher refractive index than Tsavorite and so cutting a step-cut is a very good choice as in a brilliant cut it would probably look overly sparkly. YAG can look remarkably like Demantoid and they have similar dispersion.

 

[Aven]

Pandora I am so glad you chimed in! I didn't think about the photo being good as a bad thing but you have a point. I hate the majority of over exposed light box photos seller use, but that also makes it easier detect something's wonky. And I definitely agree that those bargain finds more often than not are accompanied by a not so clear snap shot. Hmm...

It is an auction, so it could go up but so far no bids have been made. I don't know whether or not there is a reserve, it doesn't say reserve not met though. I will say the starting bid is very low for what this stone is being sold as.

I do have two good jeweler's where I am at in Virginia, one that I mentioned earlier, where he would have to get it to his stone guy. And the other was one I worked at a couple of years ago, and they do have a GG on staff, I believe she is still with them. If I go in on the days she works she may be able to test it on the spot, which would help with the return deadline.

Now this seller also has six 2-3ct dark blue/purple tanzanites they are selling, same sort of set up, but some with tweezer and some with out, but in the tanz photos the light is a good bit stronger judging from the highlights in the gem and on the tweezers. So its does seem like the seller is trying to get the best (slightly better than IRL) image possible with those stones. Is this a tip that perhaps the seller isn't as uneducated in colored stones as I thought?

I feel like I am playing ebay gem detective! Hahaha, oh the allure of bargains on ebay!...

 

[T L]

The seller only has sold three things, so I would be slightly worried, but at least it's not so much money that if I lost it, I would be heart broken for the rest of my life. There's not a lot of bids, as my guess would be that the seller's feedback count is "3."

 

[Aven]

I am sort of feeling like its going to end up being YAG or something similiar, the seller went through the trouble of getting a good image of it, as well as finding out and listing the tone (7) and saturation (5) levels, its not going to be just some joe-schmo selling something he doesn't realize the value of, since they know to list that sort of info they should know what sort of money that kind of stone would bring. And while the seller did respond to my first set of questions, I asked about inclusions, with an affirmative for no inclusion. I responded back early this afternoon saying that no inclusions may mean man made, asked about being able to extend the return policy until confirmation of it being natural and I have heard nothing... cease of communication doesn't bode well.

 

[Pandora II]

Hmm, for that price I'd be tempted to have a look at it in person - purely to have the answer! But my instinct is saying that this really is too good to be true - the real bargains I've had it's been obvious they don't know what they have... mikimoto pearls sold as 'old string of pearls' and just happen to have a photo of the back of the clasp (yes, all my Sunday's came at once).

Then again, I have taken a chance on a couple of things and they weren't what I hoped they would be - however it only cost me the postage to find out.

If the GG at the place you used to work is still around then she should be able to tell you very quickly.

 

[Aven]

My gut is giving me the same feeling, though I am tempted believe me. The est. delivery date is between Dec 20th and the 27th, that is going to make catching a moment to get it tested at the jewelers very difficult, I know they get extremely busy during the holiday and then they do take a few days break. I worry that I wouldn't be able to make the return deadline.

 

[zeolite]

Two observations:

The dimensions are perfect calibrated size: 9x7x5. Unlikely for a very valuable natural stone.

The seller states: This is a private listing and your identity will not be disclosed to anyone except the seller.

Humm, why? What are we hiding here? Why does he care if someone else sees the name of the buyer?

 

[Aven]

Yup, things just don't seem right.

Oh well, back to dreaming for now.

 

[gsellis]

Way too clean for a Tsavorite that big that "started low." I would bet it is a simulant. Rough like that is triple digit approaching four digits per caret. Rough like that would have been above $4000 using Jeff Graham's price for rough.

http://www.faceters.com/rough/garnet/tsavorite.shtml

10x10x8 rough is almost $5k and it will cut a smaller stone. So, what do you think?

 

[Aven]

Bidding is over now, someone did bid on it, not me though. Thanks for everyone's input, and keeping me from getting sucked in