Opinions on this stone please!

[reigndeerz]

After some back and forth discussion with my SA, this is the stone that was recommended to me, and the one that I am currently leaning towards making a purchase.

Would the experts around here please take a look at this stone and let me know if there are any further concerns that I should raise. The stone is eyeclean from both top and sides at 6 inches, and the feather at the girdle has been assured to not pose a problem to the structural integrity of the stone.

The HCA returns a score of 1, which makes me worry a little about obstruction issues. Is that a cause for concern based on the numbers?

. Carat: 0.715
. Depth %: 61.3
. Table %: 54.9
. Crown Angle: 34.7
. Crown %: 15.7
. Star : 53
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.7
. Lower Girdle %: 78
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Bruted

On a side note, what does a medium bruted girdle mean?

 

[reigndeerz]

The AGS report

 

[reigndeerz]

40x and Hearts Image

 

[reigndeerz]

ASET and IS Image

 

[stone-cold11]

Should not be the case with those angles but request/post an Idealscope/ASET image and then we can see if that is the case.

Bruted girdle look sanded, rough instead of smooth surface like a polish facet.

EDT:
No obstruction issue from the images.

 

[swingirl]

A bruted girdle is one that isn''t polished.

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds_info/t/all_about.aspx?articleid=134&zoneid=21

 

[reigndeerz]

Thanks all. Will the bruted girdle be cause for concern? Given that it''s not really a reflecting facet, can i presume that all is still fine and dandy? *fingers crossed*

 

[stone-cold11]

Some like/prefer these. It is not noticeable in normal viewing unless in very badly cut stone

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/4/2009 7:40:36 PM
Author: reigndeerz
Thanks all. Will the bruted girdle be cause for concern? Given that it''s not really a reflecting facet, can i presume that all is still fine and dandy? *fingers crossed*

Yes you can, a bruted girdle is not an issue and no worries of obstruction either, its a great diamond.

 

[outatouch0]

Excellent example of what can be achieved here !!!!!

 

[Laila619]

Looks to be a beautiful stone. As long as the feather won''t pose any problems, I say go for it!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 12/4/2009 7:26:55 PM
Author:reigndeerz
After some back and forth discussion with my SA, this is the stone that was recommended to me, and the one that I am currently leaning towards making a purchase.

Would the experts around here please take a look at this stone and let me know if there are any further concerns that I should raise. The stone is eyeclean from both top and sides at 6 inches, and the feather at the girdle has been assured to not pose a problem to the structural integrity of the stone.

The HCA returns a score of 1, which makes me worry a little about obstruction issues. Is that a cause for concern based on the numbers?

. Carat: 0.715
. Depth %: 61.3
. Table %: 54.9
. Crown Angle: 34.7
. Crown %: 15.7
. Star : 53
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.7
. Lower Girdle %: 78
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Bruted

On a side note, what does a medium bruted girdle mean?

It means it was badly beaten by a big brute.

Sorry, I have been waiting years to say that.

Bruting is done by taking a diamond crystal in a special holder and spinning it rapidly and then bringing it together with a spinning grinder to round the girdle for faceting. In days of yore it was done by putting the diamond at the end of a long rod the other end of which was held in the armpit by a strong cutter and by use of brute force brought to bear against another spinning diamond. As it became round enough that diamond would be put in the spinner and another would be held against it to finish rounding the diamond.

The above is probably not totally correct, but it is the way it was originally explained to me. Perhaps John has some pictures of the modern bruting process and knows where to find one of the old technique. There is a whole other discussion to be had about how bruting affects the color grade of the gem. I have had more than one gem with a bruted girdle repolised to better cut standards and ended up with a color grade that was one to two grades higher.

Wink

P.S. With an HCA of 1 and the angles that you give I doubt that you will have any issues with obstruction. Why do you say an HCA of 1 gives you concern?

 

[reigndeerz]

Thanks for the input everyone!

I''ve read that HCA scores below 1.0 are generally due to a shallower diamond, hence allowing for a better spread, and as a result, problems in obstruction. Though I could well have misunderstood it!

Wow. Bruted girdles have the ability to drop a color grade of a stone by one to two grades?! I would presume that the F color that was assigned was already based on the diamond having a bruted girdle? So I should not have to worry bout my F color diamond looking like a H right? *crosses fingers*

On a secondary note though, perhaps if that was indeed the case, I would be having what is in fact a D color stone bought at the price of a F colored one! Haha.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 12/6/2009 9:57:36 AM
Author: reigndeerz
Thanks for the input everyone!

I''ve read that HCA scores below 1.0 are generally due to a shallower diamond, hence allowing for a better spread, and as a result, problems in obstruction. Though I could well have misunderstood it!

Wow. Bruted girdles have the ability to drop a color grade of a stone by one to two grades?! I would presume that the F color that was assigned was already based on the diamond having a bruted girdle? So I should not have to worry bout my F color diamond looking like a H right? *crosses fingers*

On a secondary note though, perhaps if that was indeed the case, I would be having what is in fact a D color stone bought at the price of a F colored one! Haha.

Whoa! The fact that some diamonds will improve in color when recut with a faceted girdle does NOT make for a proof that bruting lowers the color grade by up to two colors. There are many potential reasons, including the fact that unless the diamond boiled in acid it is possible that the girdle may contain microscopic residue from the polishing process that contributes to the lower color.

I am NOT qualified to discuss this on a scientific basis, only to state that I have had diamonds recut with up to two higher color grades. Perhaps one of the cutters here can chime in, Paul Slegers or Brian Gavin could both address this much better than I.

Your assumption that the diamond was graded "as is" is valid however. Your diamond was graded by graders who are looking at how the diamond looks now, not how it might look after repolishing.

As for the HCA less than 1 being bad I vociferously disagree. Some of my favorite diamonds have 40.7 degree pavilion angles, but it depends on what the extremes of the angles are, that 40.7 is an average. If the angles range from 40.4 to 41 degrees then it that diamond could (should) very well have problems, but if the varience ranges from 40.6 to 40.8 than it is very likely that the diamond is extraordinary. (Assuming correct crown angles etc.)

Diamond cut grading is an incredibly complex field and even the most qualified experts have many areas of disagreement. Please be aware of this too and don''t take anything you hear as gospel. There may well be stones with less than HCA 1 that are problematic in some minor way, but there will also be stones with less than HCA 1 that are incredible. This I know, as I have seen, and sold, many of them.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Here is a picture of a diamond bruting machine.

The screen on the machine shows you the very up close image of what is happening.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Here is a gentleman practicing the hand held bruting.

 

[WinkHPD]

Here are more pictures of the bruting process and the finished result.

Wink

 

[miraclesrule]

Awesome educational thread. You rock Wink! One day I dream of having a project with you too!!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 12/6/2009 11:24:31 AM
Author: miraclesrule
Awesome educational thread. You rock Wink! One day I dream of having a project with you too!!

Thank you!

Wink

 

[reigndeerz]

Thank you for the valuable input Wink!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 12/4/2009 7:26:55 PM
Author:reigndeerz
After some back and forth discussion with my SA, this is the stone that was recommended to me, and the one that I am currently leaning towards making a purchase.

Would the experts around here please take a look at this stone and let me know if there are any further concerns that I should raise. The stone is eyeclean from both top and sides at 6 inches, and the feather at the girdle has been assured to not pose a problem to the structural integrity of the stone.

The HCA returns a score of 1, which makes me worry a little about obstruction issues. Is that a cause for concern based on the numbers?

. Carat: 0.715
. Depth %: 61.3
. Table %: 54.9
. Crown Angle: 34.7
. Crown %: 15.7
. Star : 53
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.7
. Lower Girdle %: 78
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Bruted

On a side note, what does a medium bruted girdle mean?

when a woman tries to squeeze into a smaller size girdle and it feels brutal.

 

[yssie]

We''ve heard this one from you, DF.


Stone looks beautiful!!