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Opinion on Diamond, specifically SI1 Inclusions

SDJ88

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2016
Messages
8
Thanks to those who helped with my first post. I decided to switch to a local jeweler since I'm not sure online only is for me. Anyways, looked at a bunch of diamonds today and found one that I liked the most. Unfortunately, I don't have any 10x images or ASET to post, just the GIA report which is:
http://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2237865628

I had to download it to get the image of the inclusions on the diamond. Anyways, it has mostly feathers and I was wondering if the location/type of inclusion raised any alarms? I can't say I really noticed them when I saw the diamond in person, but I definitely don't have the best eye for this stuff. When I look at so many of the SI1 diamonds online, they have super obvious defects but that's with the 10-20x image. Just wondering if feathers are maybe less obvious but carry a different set of risk (fracturing?).

Also, I know the proportions don't fall into the ideal range, but it looked nice to me. It returned a 'very good' on the HCA across the board, not excellent:
Table is 57% with 35.5 crown angle and 40.8 pavilion angle and depth of 62.6.

Seemed like the best of the bunch, but just checking if there are any 'steer clear' things that pop out from this.
 

whitewave

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
9,635
"Additional twinning wisps, clouds, pinpoints and surface graining are not shown"

Its 2.7 HCA, so it will likely have performance issues for light return...


Pass

ETA: can you get an ideal scope?
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,171
Some allow 62.5% depth. So, 62.6% is not too bad. 35.5/40.8 combo is reasonably ok. I have seen some Tiffany diamonds with this exact combo.. They looked beautiful.
A diamond with such combo is not something I would buy or recommend others to buy without ASET/IS.

I am sure you have done alot of research since the last post you started and came up with a conclusion that online shopping is not for you.

The following stones have 35.5/40.8ish combo. This is the best case scenario for your 35.5/40.8 combo stone. Some leakages here and there, but nothing detrimental. Both are AGS ideal in cut.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3253498.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3202009.htm (this arguably has worse proportions than yours, but it is still pretty)


You are correct. This might be "the best of the bunch" from your local B&M stores. I believe you that it is ok and beautiful. Looking at the proportions alone, it is definitely not super ideal cut. But, it has potential to be ideal in light performance. It is definitely above average GIA Ex cut. Again, based on the proportions alone.

I would not worry about those feather inclusions, based on the size and locations.
I would worry about twinning wisps. Re-inspect the stone and ensure those are not visible under different lighting conditions and the stone does not appear cloudy.
 

SDJ88

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2016
Messages
8
Thank you very much for the detailed reply. I asked the jeweler to put together a couple options in the VS2 range and a tighter range of proportions. They don't have any AGS graded stones, only GIA and no ASET offhand. I still haven't ruled out online completely, so with that in mind any quick thoughts on these two stones:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2291625

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-7094634-1.22-carat-Round-diamond-G-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=7094634


Thanks!
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
3,693
SDJ88|1481646005|4106870 said:
Thank you very much for the detailed reply. I asked the jeweler to put together a couple options in the VS2 range and a tighter range of proportions. They don't have any AGS graded stones, only GIA and no ASET offhand. I still haven't ruled out online completely, so with that in mind any quick thoughts on these two stones:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2291625

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-7094634-1.22-carat-Round-diamond-G-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=7094634

Thanks!
Both are gorgeous choices, which is confirmed by the light return images provided. Both would probably have better light return than the stone your jeweler showed you.

Here are a couple more:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3730019.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3765688.htm
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,173
HI SDJ,
Best of luck in your search!
It's quite possible that you will pick a stone that gets knocked here due to "light performance"
The reason is that the term is not a scientific calibration.
When looking online- as pretty much 90% of people who come to ask questions, it makes sense to follow numbers- I get it and understand why.
BUT- if you are looking in person, you may very well pick a stone based on appearance that will get knocked here for having "light return" problems.

Maybe you'll end up buying online- but I would suggest looking at the GIA EX cut grade stones you can see in person with an open mind.
Part of the value you should get from buying locally is the ability to have a professional in front of you showing why a given diamond is SI1- and in many cases, there's nothing "wrong" with an SI1- although again, comparing to online shopping, where an SI1 is kinda spooky- looking in person alleviates that risk. Or it can.
By all means post your experiences here- there have been scads of cases where a B&M jeweler was BS'ing a consumer.
But also there's cases where the procedure for buying online is different than buying in person ( ASET is one of those)
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,174
SDJ88|1481595456|4106762 said:
Thanks to those who helped with my first post. I decided to switch to a local jeweler since I'm not sure online only is for me. Anyways, looked at a bunch of diamonds today and found one that I liked the most. Unfortunately, I don't have any 10x images or ASET to post, just the GIA report which is:
http://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2237865628

I had to download it to get the image of the inclusions on the diamond. Anyways, it has mostly feathers and I was wondering if the location/type of inclusion raised any alarms? I can't say I really noticed them when I saw the diamond in person, but I definitely don't have the best eye for this stuff. When I look at so many of the SI1 diamonds online, they have super obvious defects but that's with the 10-20x image. Just wondering if feathers are maybe less obvious but carry a different set of risk (fracturing?).

Also, I know the proportions don't fall into the ideal range, but it looked nice to me. It returned a 'very good' on the HCA across the board, not excellent:
Table is 57% with 35.5 crown angle and 40.8 pavilion angle and depth of 62.6.

Seemed like the best of the bunch, but just checking if there are any 'steer clear' things that pop out from this.
Twinning wisps can be hard to almost impossible for untrained people to see. They can sometimes dull a diamond - and the harder they are to see under 10X - the more likely that will be the case.
However a lot of GIA grading is done with backlight from behind the diamond with a microscope - and this stone - if it looks realy clean - say like a VS2 or VS1 - will possibly have some dulling effects that would be worse than the HCA 2.7.
Also at this range because GIA round the crown and pavilion angles a lot - far too much - the stone may have a HCA close to 2 or more than 3. So getting an ideal-scope for yourself is a good idea. Or have the stone sent to one of the appraisers listed on the Resources tab.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,173
HI Garry-
Just a slightly different take:
For a shopper looking for a "normal" diamond, such as a 1 1/4ct H/SI- a category where there's a lot of options: is it a good idea for a consumer to purchase a diamond that will cost them hundreds in assessment fees right out of the box? Sending a stone to an appraiser would entail such cost.

About twining wisps- my experiences are different- I've not seen a lot of VS2's with twining wisps that affected brilliance. That's not to imply you have not- I'm sure you have.
But it does make my statement about looking in person and how an honest trained professional can earn their salary by examining a diamond together with a consumer, and showing them the imperfections and how they affect the diamond.
In such a case it might be entirely possible a professional would not use IS or ASET.
That will likely change more over time- but there's still plenty of knowledgeable , honest professionals that do not use IS/ASET
 

SDJ88

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2016
Messages
8
Thanks to all for the continued help.

Rockdiamond - you mentioned posting my experience with the B&M retailer, but I actually started with a personal recommendation who conducts business via email/phone. Things were actually going pretty well until he brought up this category 1 vs 2 diamond discussion and how online retailers are not allowed to sell category 1 diamonds. My BS meter went through the roof and I googled it, only to find a near identical experience on this forum: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/category-1-and-category-2-diamonds.184443/

I decided to try one of the local jewelers next, who makes a very particular setting that I'm looking for. Tonight I got a few more diamonds with pretty 'meh' HCA scores and the best one is an I color, SI1 clarity which is a little lower than I was looking (G-H color), but I'll probably check it out (http://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=6232897542).

Really leaning towards one of the two diamonds I posted earlier though. For as much as I'm a little hesitant about online, I feel better having the 20x images, Idealscope images, and having people on this forum being able to weigh in (feel free to suggest one over the other).
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,174
Rockdiamond|1481671942|4107011 said:
HI Garry-
Just a slightly different take:
For a shopper looking for a "normal" diamond, such as a 1 1/4ct H/SI- a category where there's a lot of options: is it a good idea for a consumer to purchase a diamond that will cost them hundreds in assessment fees right out of the box? Sending a stone to an appraiser would entail such cost.

About twining wisps- my experiences are different- I've not seen a lot of VS2's with twining wisps that affected brilliance. That's not to imply you have not- I'm sure you have.
But it does make my statement about looking in person and how an honest trained professional can earn their salary by examining a diamond together with a consumer, and showing them the imperfections and how they affect the diamond.
In such a case it might be entirely possible a professional would not use IS or ASET.
That will likely change more over time- but there's still plenty of knowledgeable , honest professionals that do not use IS/ASET
Hi David, for the sake of learning - here is an example of a stone that based on the inclusions visible under 10X the stone would probably be a low VS2 - but GIA graded it SI1 - and in my opinion that is how they grade stones which are slightly milky hazy as this one is. The photo was taken using ViBox, which you have and I was one of the developers - so we can see the life is down a bit.
We are not arguing however - I am just warning consumers that when a clarity grade looks too good to be true, there is almost always a hidden nasty.
I think GIA should be sued by all the people who bought these yucky diamonds for loss of sparkle.
GIA should come here and defend the fact they give this stone their top cut grade - which implies it sparkles, but use jargon that conceals the fact the stone has reduced life and sparkle. It really is criminal. It is done to enhance sales at the cost of consumer confidence.

hazy_si1.jpg
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,173
SDJ88|1481676781|4107023 said:
Thanks to all for the continued help.

Rockdiamond - you mentioned posting my experience with the B&M retailer, but I actually started with a personal recommendation who conducts business via email/phone. Things were actually going pretty well until he brought up this category 1 vs 2 diamond discussion and how online retailers are not allowed to sell category 1 diamonds. My BS meter went through the roof and I googled it, only to find a near identical experience on this forum: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/category-1-and-category-2-diamonds.184443/

I decided to try one of the local jewelers next, who makes a very particular setting that I'm looking for. Tonight I got a few more diamonds with pretty 'meh' HCA scores and the best one is an I color, SI1 clarity which is a little lower than I was looking (G-H color), but I'll probably check it out (http://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=6232897542).

Really leaning towards one of the two diamonds I posted earlier though. For as much as I'm a little hesitant about online, I feel better having the 20x images, Idealscope images, and having people on this forum being able to weigh in (feel free to suggest one over the other).
Got it- so you've already been disrespected by a seller- that sucks.
If you're comfortable mentioning the region you're located in, maybe members will guide you towards better B&M alternatives, if they exist in your area.
Truth is, it's far easier to find a BS artist, as opposed to a competent diamond seller committed to fair trading- but they do exist.
What was the HCA score you considered to be "meh"
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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8,173

SDJ88

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2016
Messages
8
I'm in NH, in the seacoast area - definitely welcome to any recommendations. Boston is on the table too since I'm sure there's more options there.

When I said, just okay HCA scores, here's two of the most recent examples:

HCA 3.7 (Depth 62.5, 57 table, 36 crown angle, 40.8 pavilion)
http://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=5176782657

HCA 5.5 (Depth 62.6, 58 table, 36 crown angle, 41.2 pavilion)
http://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2236211229

Unfortunately their loose diamond search doesn't show pictures and doesn't even list the crown angle and pavilion, so not the smoothest process to pick out the best ones for more info.


Gary - thanks for the insight. When we looked at the original diamond this thread was about, the salesperson commented that they thought it could pass as a VS2. Now it seems like the example you posted and probably wasn't as brilliant as it could be (but seemed better in comparison to 'okay' diamonds).
 
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