online diamond vendors - credit card service fee Nonrefundable?

[greysca1e]

hi,

I recently purchased a diamond from an online vendor with my credit card. I later found a better stone at a local jeweler so I need to return the first diamond.
I called the vendor but they told me once I send it back there''s a $75 return fee and I will also lose 3% of the diamond purchase amount because of the 3% credit card fee the vendor incurred on the transaction.

is this common? I didn''t expect all these ''handling'' fees. just wondering if it''s common.

thanks!

 

[greysca1e]

here is their return policy (does not mention handling fees):

100% UNCONDITIONAL MONEY BACK GUARANTEE.

1-All packages must be shipped via the United States Postal Service with a return receipt and fully insured for the purchase value. Please call our office at 1-877-342-7464 and we will be happy to help you with this process.

2-No shipments will be accepted via UPS, Federal Express or any other land carrier.

3-Shipments arriving after the 14 day return policy will not be accepted and shipped back to the sender.

4-We reserve the right to inspect all retuned merchandise for damage prior to your refund. Should there be any indication of damage we will select an independent 3rd party to examine and verify the extent of the damage and negotiate a settlement cost.

5-At the conclusion of our inspection we will refund all wire transfers and issue a credit for credit card purchases.

6-All laboratory reports, appraisals and sales receipts must be included in the shipment.

7-All custom made orders are non refundable.

 

[vintagelover229]

I would ask them to show you where in ther website it says buyer has to pay CC fees, etc.
If they can''t provide you with it, I''d tell your CC company not to pay them a dime and cancle the payment until things get figured out (and send the stone back)

 

[Moh 10]

Wow, those fees are not in their stated policy.

Is this a PS vendor?
If so, which one?

Let's use the visibility PS offers to call this vendor onto the carpet to clear this up.
That's is what PS is all about, consumer education and protection.
Right?

 

[greysca1e]

Hi, this is with engagementringsdirect.com

I just talked to mark on the phone and he is the one who mention the ''handling'' fees (which are not stated on their policy).

i talked to my local jeweler and he told me normally with credit card payments if they refund the customer the bank does not charge them the transaction fee since amount was refunded. i don''t know if this is the case with all merchant accounts.......

I''m very frustrated because I will lose several hundred dollars because of this and I did not expect it based on their listed policy.

 

[greysca1e]

also: the return policy is for 14 days so I have until next tuesday to return it.

HOWEVER, mark told me his office is closed as of next monday so in order to get my refund the package has to arrive by tomorrow (fully insured).

The problem is, ERD prefers USPS carrier but with registered mail (to fully insure diamond) it will take 2-3 days priority shipment. If I do express shipment (nextday delivery) i am not able to fully insure package (limited coverage).

so I''m stuck....... they are willing to accept UPS shipment but mentioned they don''t like accepting UPS or Fedex because the packages are normally tampered with by the time it reaches their office. and with UPS the price of postage is $$$$!

 

[strmrdr]

I wouldn''t let him keep the money.
It isn''t in the written policy so he has no right to it.
If all else fails file a complaint with you credit card company and have them do a charge back.
I would return it as stated in the policy and if he isn''t there to get it that is his problem.
Better yet call your credit card company and explain the situation tonight.
Then do as they recommend.

Then let us know what happens.

 

[vintagelover229]

Are you unhappy with the stone mark provided for you? If so, then return it. I know you said you found a "better" one at a local store...but what makes it better? I''m sure Mark will make this right if you try and work with him. Are the 2 stones similar enough that the prices can be matched, etc?

I wouldn''t give up on Mark yet and lose your $$$. Something else to consider, after all the "fees" and s&h, etc are paid, are you really goign to save that much $$ going with the stone you found at the local store?

What is it about the stone you bought from ERD that isn''t as good, etc. as the local one?

Sorry for the ? just trying to get a better handle on the situation.

 

[Moh 10]

Let's be fair.
If you expect ERD to honor their policy to the letter (which remains to be seen) then you should too.

ERD’s policies # 1 and 2 states you must use USPS, if there is not time to use them then that is your fault.

Policy # 3 states they must receive it within 14 days. Nowhere does it state you must get it there by day 13, or that Saturday Sunday and undisclosed days when their office chooses to be closed don’t count.

I'd rush over to USPS and send it the correct way and hope it gets there in time, which according to you is Tuesday.

BTW, here is a part that somehow got left out of your quote above right after the first line in caps but before the list of 7 items which tells you the 14-day clock starts when they send it, not when you receive it - So, the 14 days is how long it is out of their hands, not how long it is in your hands:

"EngagementRingsDirect offers a fourteen(14) day return policy. You may return any item within 14 days from our date of shipment."

 

[greysca1e]

Date: 12/18/2008 6:03:48 PM
Author: redrose229
Are you unhappy with the stone mark provided for you? If so, then return it. I know you said you found a ''better'' one at a local store...but what makes it better? I''m sure Mark will make this right if you try and work with him. Are the 2 stones similar enough that the prices can be matched, etc?


I wouldn''t give up on Mark yet and lose your $$$. Something else to consider, after all the ''fees'' and s&h, etc are paid, are you really goign to save that much $$ going with the stone you found at the local store?


What is it about the stone you bought from ERD that isn''t as good, etc. as the local one?


Sorry for the ? just trying to get a better handle on the situation.

The diamond mark provided was nice but the one at the local jeweler just looked better in person. it sparkled more and had more defined-looking steps (it''s an asscher). I compared both diamonds in person and just knew immediately I liked the second one better. there''s nothing wrong with Mark''s diamond, I just liked the other one better. I could continue working with mark but what''s the point when I found the perfect one here at a local store? price is very close as well.

 

[greysca1e]

Date: 12/18/2008 6:09:43 PM
Author: Moh 10
Let''s be fair.

If you expect them to honor their policy to the letter (which remains to be seen) then you should too.


ERD’s policies # 1 and 2 states you must use USPS, if there is not time to use them then that is your fault.


Policy # 3 states they must receive it within 14 days. Nowhere does it state you must get it there by day 13, or that Saturday Sunday and undisclosed days when their office chooses to be closed don’t count.


I''d rush over to USPS and send it the correct way and hope it gets there in time, which according to you is Tuesday.


BTW, here is a part that somehow got left out of your quote above right after the first line in caps but before the list of 7 items:

''EngagementRingsDirect offers a fourteen(14) day return policy. You may return any item within 14 days from our date of shipment.''

Hi, yes I fully intend to hold up my end of the policy. The diamond was shipped to me 12/9 (received 12/10). I am shipping it out today via USPS 12/18. The probably I mentioned is that USPS requires 2 days transit time for registered priority shipment. USPS doesn''t have an option to do next-day delivery with fully insured amount (if I do next day shipment I can only get partial coverage... there''s a limitation on insurance for express mail). I just checked with our USPS office.

the 2 days transit is still OK under the 14-day policy but became an issue because Mark said his office is closed starting Monday so he wanted the diamond delivered to him by tomorrow 12/19. which leaves me in a pinch..... since the only way I can ship with USPS will take longer than 1 day.

I left that line out of the quote because I wasn''t going to disclose which vendor it is. but since it was asked it doesn''t matter now.

I only considered UPS because that was the only way I can do next-day delivery with full insurance.

thanks for everyones input!

 

[beach]

Sorry to hear about everything. This is kinda sad what Mark is doing... Will one day really ruin his life???? And it is not your fault that there is holiday... I will never do business with a company like this. Happy Hollidays Mark... Sheesh

 

[Moh 10]

Tuesday is day 14.

Dates in December:

9 shipped by ERD
10 day 1 that it has been out of ERD's hands
11 day 2 Thu
12 day 3 Fri
13 day 4 Sat
14 day 5 Sun
15 day 6 Mon
16 day 7 Tue
17 day 8 Wed
18 day 9 Thu
19 day 10 Fri
20 day 11 Sat
21 day 12 Sun
22 day 13 Mon
23 day 14 Tues

Tell Mark to check his arithmetic.

 

[Moh 10]

Beach wrote, "This is kinda sad what Mark is doing... Will one day really ruin his life???? And it is not your fault that there is holiday... I will never do business with a company like this.

I think that's kind of unfair.
Rules are rules.
Rules are published prior to the sale for the customers to read.
I'd never expect an extra day.

But if it turns out ERD is surprising this customer with terms NOT in his website like a $75 return fee and charging the customer the credit card fee (which is substantial) then Mark certainly looses my business, and any referrals from me, too.
I'm not on anyone's side except following the published rules of the transaction that the buyer agrees to by making a purchase.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 12/18/2008 6:35:42 PM
Author: Moh 10
Tuesday is day 14.

Tell Mark to check his arithmetic.

Moh, I am thinking what Mark means is that the company is taking the entire week off.

 

[Moh 10]

The 14-day period being shortened for the vendor closing is not in ERD''s terms.
Dates of vendor closing are not published.

The customer is meeting the vendor''s published terms.

 

[beach]

I understand rules are rules.... You did the math yourself.....The customer is well within the rules so I repeat, I will never do business with a company like this... Making up rules after the fact is unethical and abuse of power as a business owner.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 12/18/2008 7:01:44 PM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 12/18/2008 6:35:42 PM

Author: Moh 10

Tuesday is day 14.


Tell Mark to check his arithmetic.

Moh, I am thinking what Mark means is that the company is taking the entire week off.

It's Chanukah and almost all of the diamond district closes down for Jewish holidays...add in Christmas to that in the same week and I don't know why anyone is surprised that they will be closed.

Mark is a reasonable man, so if you are being reasonable with him and explain that nowhere in the terms does it state that there are the fees, he should waive them IMO. And not start charging them unless they are fully disclosed ahead of time. Unless there is more to the story than we know, which of course we can't know.

As for the return policy, it was stated, and grey needs to get the diamond back in Mark's hands by the time stated.

So really the issue here is the undisclosed fees, which Mark needs to either disclose fully in his stated terms and policies or can't charge. Period.

But I do wonder what is going on here...because I have heard of people making returns to Mark before with no additional fees or charges...so something seems odd about this transaction unless Mark has drastically changed his business policies recently.

 

[beach]

The client was able to make the 14 day return but Mark said they are closed monday so he needs to send it sooner..... What a joke....
And yes the credit card fees are not stated... Joke number two...
Mark may be a reasonable person but he seems to have dropped the ball here.... He gets positive feedback and now he gets negative feedback. That is the nature of the forum and is just being honest. No need to sugarcoat....

I can list at least 3 other companies that would NEVER do this and cite religion as an excuse to screw a customer. In fact many companies extend return periods during holidays because of this!

If Mark does not correct, a BBB complaint is an option. But from his positve past history, I am assuming he may try to fix this.... Maybe there was a misunderstaning or maybe the holidays has everyone stressed out and saying stupid stuff.

 

[Moh 10]

So any vendor of any religion can expect every customer to follow their practice of not conducting business on their religious holidays?
I'm all for respecting a person's religion but there are a lot of religions in the world to keep track of all those dates.

Perhaps these shut-down dates should be published in their terms and buyers within 14 days of shut-down dates should be notified in writing that they don't get their full 14-days - or they should not sell to the general public.

There is no excuse for how this buyer has been treated.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 12/18/2008 7:22:07 PM
Author: Moh 10
So any vendor of any religion can expect every customer to follow their practice of not conducting business on their religious holidays?

I'm all for respecting a person's religion but there are a lot of religions in the world to keep track of all those dates.


Perhaps these shut-down dates should be published in their terms if this is the result, or they should not sell to the general public.

There are many religions...HOWEVER, just to play devil's advocate, if the 14th day was Christmas I don't think most people in the US would question it that they were closed and I just think that if someone would think it was reasonable to be closed on Christmas the diamond district can be closed on Jewish holidays. Just something to consider...

And just to clarify, I do think that Mark should try and be flexible about the date, but at the same time the OP has had the diamond in his hands now for 8 days, so we don't know what has occurred between then and now between him and Mark, re: discussions about the stone or mailing. I just don't think it's fair to flame a vendor when none of us knows what has occurred between the two during the transaction. Mark is working with Grey to get it back in the timeframe Mark would like it in, so it seems to me like a non-issue here...Mark said he'd *like* it back before Monday, but not sure if he is declining the return if it isn't back by then?

ETA: And from what I read about their policies it says 14 days from the date of shipment. Which is the 9th, so thus Monday is the day it needs to be back anyway right?

 

[Moh 10]

Everyone's religion gets the same respect from me. Everyone's.
A vendor violating his own published terms is not a non-issue.

Pointing out violations is not flaming.

But yes, let's wait to hear what Mark has to say. . . one side of the story, and all that.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 12/18/2008 7:30:12 PM
Author: Moh 10
Everyone''s religion gets the same respect from me. Everyone''s.

A vendor violating his own published terms is not a non-issue.


Pointing out violations is not flaming.


But yes, let''s wait to hear what Mark has to say. . . one side of the story, and all that.

You aren''t flaming and neither is the OP...but it could turn into a flamefest fast, which I just don''t think is fair without all the info. That''s all.

 

[glitterata]

Date: 12/18/2008 6:01:27 PM
Author: strmrdr
I wouldn''t let him keep the money.

It isn''t in the written policy so he has no right to it.

If all else fails file a complaint with you credit card company and have them do a charge back.

I would return it as stated in the policy and if he isn''t there to get it that is his problem.

Better yet call your credit card company and explain the situation tonight.

Then do as they recommend.


Then let us know what happens.

Karl has given you excellent advice. I would follow it. Call your credit card company immediately and explain the situation. Do not pay a penny of these unstated and unfair fees.

I would never do business with a company that tried to take advantage of its customers like that.

Why you want to return it is beside the point. You have a right to use his stated return policy for any reason or no reason. He''s obligated to honor that policy.

 

[greysca1e]

Date: 12/18/2008 6:35:42 PM
Author: Moh 10
Tuesday is day 14.


Dates in December:


9 shipped by ERD

10 day 1 that it has been out of ERD''s hands

11 day 2 Thu

12 day 3 Fri

13 day 4 Sat

14 day 5 Sun

15 day 6 Mon

16 day 7 Tue

17 day 8 Wed

18 day 9 Thu

19 day 10 Fri

20 day 11 Sat

21 day 12 Sun

22 day 13 Mon

23 day 14 Tues


Tell Mark to check his arithmetic.

Hi yes I agree. the only reason why he wants it by tomorrow is because he will be on vacation next week so the office is closed. but I don''t think the return policy timeline should be shortened because of the holidays... and I wasn''t told at the time of purchase that I had less days to return it.

 

[greysca1e]

Date: 12/18/2008 6:50:14 PM
Author: Moh 10
Beach wrote, ''This is kinda sad what Mark is doing... Will one day really ruin his life???? And it is not your fault that there is holiday... I will never do business with a company like this.


I think that''s kind of unfair.

Rules are rules.

Rules are published prior to the sale for the customers to read.

I''d never expect an extra day.


But if it turns out ERD is surprising this customer with terms NOT in his website like a $75 return fee and charging the customer the credit card fee (which is substantial) then Mark certainly looses my business, and any referrals from me, too.

I''m not on anyone''s side except following the published rules of the transaction that the buyer agrees to by making a purchase.

Hi, no I don''t expect an extra day either. but per Mark I had less days to return it because he''s going on vacation next week and the office is closed so he wanted the diamond by tomorrow. and this was not disclosed at the time of purchase. the return fee and credit card fee being nonrefundable was also not disclosed at the time of purchase. he told me he hardly ever has to deal with returns and since he has spent time working with me and accepting a credit card payment he will have to pass on those fees to me.

 

[greysca1e]

Date: 12/18/2008 7:27:46 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 12/18/2008 7:22:07 PM

Author: Moh 10

So any vendor of any religion can expect every customer to follow their practice of not conducting business on their religious holidays?


I''m all for respecting a person''s religion but there are a lot of religions in the world to keep track of all those dates.



Perhaps these shut-down dates should be published in their terms if this is the result, or they should not sell to the general public.

There are many religions...HOWEVER, just to play devil''s advocate, if the 14th day was Christmas I don''t think most people in the US would question it that they were closed and I just think that if someone would think it was reasonable to be closed on Christmas the diamond district can be closed on Jewish holidays. Just something to consider...


And just to clarify, I do think that Mark should try and be flexible about the date, but at the same time the OP has had the diamond in his hands now for 8 days, so we don''t know what has occurred between then and now between him and Mark, re: discussions about the stone or mailing. I just don''t think it''s fair to flame a vendor when none of us knows what has occurred between the two during the transaction. Mark is working with Grey to get it back in the timeframe Mark would like it in, so it seems to me like a non-issue here...Mark said he''d *like* it back before Monday, but not sure if he is declining the return if it isn''t back by then?


ETA: And from what I read about their policies it says 14 days from the date of shipment. Which is the 9th, so thus Monday is the day it needs to be back anyway right?

Hi, actually he told me if it didn''t get there by tomorrow and since he is out of the office next week he will not accept my refund.
I totally understand him not being able to refund me right away.. and that''s fine if I have to wait until he gets back into the office after vacation to issue the refund but he said he won''t even refund if it''s not there by tomorrow.
The only reason I did not return sooner is I JUST found that local diamond last night while shopping for a setting in downtown. right when I found out I emailed Mark last night letting him know I will have to send back his diamond. He wrote me this morning saying it needs to arrive tomorrow or no refund. I called him and that''s when he told me about all the ''handling'' fees. Which I did mention they were not stated on the policy but he said they don''t do returns that often but fact of the matter is there will be fees I will have to swallow.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 12/18/2008 8:00:47 PM
Author: greysca1e

Date: 12/18/2008 7:27:46 PM

Author: neatfreak

Date: 12/18/2008 7:22:07 PM


Author: Moh 10


So any vendor of any religion can expect every customer to follow their practice of not conducting business on their religious holidays?



I''m all for respecting a person''s religion but there are a lot of religions in the world to keep track of all those dates.




Perhaps these shut-down dates should be published in their terms if this is the result, or they should not sell to the general public.

There are many religions...HOWEVER, just to play devil''s advocate, if the 14th day was Christmas I don''t think most people in the US would question it that they were closed and I just think that if someone would think it was reasonable to be closed on Christmas the diamond district can be closed on Jewish holidays. Just something to consider...



And just to clarify, I do think that Mark should try and be flexible about the date, but at the same time the OP has had the diamond in his hands now for 8 days, so we don''t know what has occurred between then and now between him and Mark, re: discussions about the stone or mailing. I just don''t think it''s fair to flame a vendor when none of us knows what has occurred between the two during the transaction. Mark is working with Grey to get it back in the timeframe Mark would like it in, so it seems to me like a non-issue here...Mark said he''d *like* it back before Monday, but not sure if he is declining the return if it isn''t back by then?



ETA: And from what I read about their policies it says 14 days from the date of shipment. Which is the 9th, so thus Monday is the day it needs to be back anyway right?

Hi, actually he told me if it didn''t get there by tomorrow and since he is out of the office next week he will not accept my refund.

I totally understand him not being able to refund me right away.. and that''s fine if I have to wait until he gets back into the office after vacation to issue the refund but he said he won''t even refund if it''s not there by tomorrow.

The only reason I did not return sooner is I JUST found that local diamond last night while shopping for a setting in downtown. right when I found out I emailed Mark last night letting him know I will have to send back his diamond. He wrote me this morning saying it needs to arrive tomorrow or no refund. I called him and that''s when he told me about all the ''handling'' fees. Which I did mention they were not stated on the policy but he said they don''t do returns that often but fact of the matter is there will be fees I will have to swallow.

Thanks for clarifying. I''d give Mark a call and talk about the fees, it really isn''t fair of him to try and charge it if it isn''t in the stated policies. And I would think you could dispute the charge with the CC company if either he won''t refund or insists on charging you the fees because of the shortened timeframe because of the holidays. I obviously would try to reason with him first, but of course failing that you could take it up with your CC company and should be able to get your money back. Regardless, please let us know how this turns out...I am very interested since I do often recommend Mark and ERD and would hesitate to do so if he doesn''t clear up his policies.

 

[beach]

Did you send with delivery confirmation so you know when it actually arrives? I can't believe what Mark told you. Like I have always said, you know a companies true colors when some issue comes up. Mark has shown his true colors and his big ego all at one time... He takes money readily and gets his ego hurt when you try an return.... I wonder if their bottom line is getting tight which is causing him to act this way. With money getting tighter and the economy getting worse, you would expect companies to really treat customers well.

 

[greysca1e]

just so we''re all clear here, I''m not trying to do anything shady or bend the rules at all. I am following his policy the best I can.

-I got the diamond last wednesday, first time seeing an asscher in person thought it looked nice but still couldn''t decide on a setting. didn''t have time last weekend to go with Fiance to shop for settings, Fiance offered to go this week.
-last night went to local jewelry district in downtown shopping for settings, brought the loose diamond with me. Local jeweler showed me an equal size asscher for comparison because he had a few asscher shoppers earlier that day. Ended up loving local jeweler''s diamond compared to Mark''s diamond.
-emailed mark same night (last night) notifying him what happened, need to return diamond.
-this morning told me have to arrive by tomorrow or no return. also phoned him and he told me about return fee and credit card fee.

I''m really not asking mark to make an exception here... I''m just surprised with all the handling fees and having to ship it with next-day service. I''m just frustrated because I''m following the rules here and now there''s undisclosed fees and he won''t refund me if it arrives next week because he''s on vacation.