Once again, a rant about my inlaws...ugh

[ChloeTheGreat]

My husband's family is nuts. I can't stand his father. Every time DH wants to get together with them, I agree to go but make sure he knows I'm not happy about it. Tonight, he finally sees what I've been telling him all along.

We met his father and girlfriend for dinner tonight. THEY invited US.
FIL picked the restaurant (which is not a place I like to eat...ok, fine.)
FIL picked the time. (4:00, because he wanted to beat the NYE crowd...ok, fine.)

Then, at the close of the meal, DH and I got stuck with the check!
I don't even know how it happened...

 

[movie zombie]

oh, he's good! can't believe your hubby is just now seeing this........better late than never?

 

[ChloeTheGreat]

oh, he's good! can't believe your hubby is just now seeing this........better late than never?

He knows his dad has his quirks, for sure. Maybe now he will be less likely to make dinner plans.
FIL has pulled similar stuff before. When he was still married to his ex, they would invite us out to dinner and then as soon as we were seated he would tell the server we'd be having separate checks.
At a birthday brunch for my SIL one year (I didn't make it to that one for some reason) FIL ended up paying the check for the whole family's meal at ihop and since he paid for my hubby he said "you owe me one!" My thoughts: really, you can't just buy your son a $6 breakfast without needing something in return?!

This man is so frustrating!

 

[sonnyjane]

I don't understand how this happens? I'm genuinely curious how people get stuck paying bills when they don't intend to do so? I remember a year ago or so when there was a huge thread on here about it. How does it work? How does it go from the check being dropped off to you paying for everyone? Do the other people not look at the check so you just assume you'll be stuck paying? Could you not at least pipe up and say "alright, well, here's $100 for our half" or something like that? I'm legitimately curious.

 

[iheartscience]

I don't understand how this happens? I'm genuinely curious how people get stuck paying bills when they don't intend to do so? I remember a year ago or so when there was a huge thread on here about it. How does it work? How does it go from the check being dropped off to you paying for everyone? Do the other people not look at the check so you just assume you'll be stuck paying? Could you not at least pipe up and say "alright, well, here's $100 for our half" or something like that? I'm legitimately curious.

Ditto, also curious! I always ask how people want to split it-by item or just in half! I can't imagine just paying for everyone unless I invited them out and was planning on it!

 

[ChloeTheGreat]

I don't understand how this happens? I'm genuinely curious how people get stuck paying bills when they don't intend to do so? I remember a year ago or so when there was a huge thread on here about it. How does it work? How does it go from the check being dropped off to you paying for everyone? Do the other people not look at the check so you just assume you'll be stuck paying? Could you not at least pipe up and say "alright, well, here's $100 for our half" or something like that? I'm legitimately curious.

My DH's response is that we were guilted into paying.
About half way through the meal, FIL randomly says "well thank you." DH and I looked at eachother and thought "thank you for what...does he think we're paying?"
So when we were finished and the waiter brought the check and set it down in the middle of the table, no one reached for it. FIL and his girlfriend didn't even look at it. So I gave in and took it and paid.
I was so close to saying "excuse me, we need separate checks." I wish I would have. And I will next time (if of course I get stuck having dinner with these people again.)
DH is now referring to his dad as a "mooching ninja."
When we left and got in the car we weren't really sure what had just happened.

ETA: I think in this case, it is because DH has a long history of letting is father walk all over him. When he was a teenager living in his dad's house, we would write a monthly check to him almost as if he was paying rent. I'm not sure why FIL thinks his son owes him anything...?

 

[kenny]

Then, at the close of the meal, DH and I got stuck with the check!
I don't even know how it happened...

...

So I gave in and took it and paid.

100% your fault, so you don't get to complain.

I swear, PS is just swarming with fake-niceness followed by resentment.
Where do you gals learn this garbage?

Sorry, I don't intend to be a jerk (although I know you think I am by holding up a mirror) but you just can't have it both ways.

Speak up.
You'll sleep better.
It's not being not-nice, it's being authentic, your true self.
There is nothing "nice" about letting people treat you like a doormat.

 

[ChloeTheGreat]

Gosh Kenny, you're such a jerk! I'm kidding. I appreciate your response.

I am just appalled at the whole experience. And every interaction with FIL is like that. I keep telling DH I shouldn't have to have a relationship with his FIL if I don't want to, but he disagrees.
People vary.

 

[kenny]

Indeed.
I cannot think of anything in which the variation of people is more explosive than in families!

I think it is because of rigid expectations that people do not vary vs. the sense of obligation.
Few people have the guts to end or fix relationships with family members.

With a non-family member it is easier for people to just end contact when appropriate.

 

[ChloeTheGreat]

Nicely put.

 

[JewelFreak]

Yeah, you do have to have some sort of relationship with your SO's family if the SO wants one. (Except in very very extreme circumstances.) I couldn't stand my MIL, who died a few yrs ago. She was mean-spirited, ignorant, & unintelligent. DH does not know how I felt & never will. I was always pleasant -- couldn't manage warmth -- to her because DH was fond of her & you do, to some extent, marry the family. He recognized her resentment of me & saw some of her many flaws, so was thoughtful enough not to push for more. (I don't think he wanted her around much either.) Whenever possible I let him see his parents alone, but had them over & once for a week-long visit, without complaining at all. I'd expect the same from him if the case were reversed. If the SO doesn't want a relationship w/them, then you're off the hook; otherwise I think you owe your SO enough respect to come up with basic civility. Bummer that you can choose your friends but not your family!

I swear, PS is just swarming with fake-niceness followed by resentment.

Seems so, Kenny. Sometimes enough time & frustration is needed to get a backbone about stuff like this. Now, I would not touch the bill, pick up my coat & say, "Thanks, Joe, for a nice dinner, and Happy New Year." 20 yrs ago, might've chickened out & paid & then been mad. Doubly mad because I'd know it was my own fault!

--- Laurie

 

[missy]

Ugh, Chloe that sucks. I (unfortunately as some might see it) would have had no problem asking for separate checks under those circumstances but I think I am further along than you in age and dealing with in-laws. Time is a great teacher. My MIL used to "allow" us to pick up the check for every occasion when we went out together and I naturally thought she did the same with my dh's brothers and their wives. Nope. So when I found out I got pissed and told my dh that we weren't paying for another meal until she treated us. Long story short we stopped going out with her for over a year and a half and the next time we did go out she offered to pay. Miracles of miracles.

Now the unwritten rule is whoever travels for the occasion is the guest and the other person/couple pays. That was my MIL's decision at our last dinner. She graciously said whenever we are willing to drive to her she is more than happy to pick up the check. It's a long drive so I can appreciate her kind offer but I would be happy taking turns in any case if it turns out that way because she does have a way of forgetting certain things. But as long as we are taking turns that is A-OK with me. Don't get me wrong- if MIL wasn't well off we would treat for everything. She is sound financially though so it is not a hardship at all for her. The fact that she was treating my BIL's and their families all the time was what really pi***d me off though and was the deciding factor in my decision at no more treating all the time.

Laurie, I so wish I could have been like you and not so see through with my emotions. I cannot hide any feelings unfortunately and my dh knows all too well the way I feel about certain members of his family. Sadly he sees it now too and I say sadly because sometimes ignorance is bliss and it certainly is nicer thinking your family is loving and generous rather than the opposite. The thing with his family though is if you meet them you would think they are great. It just depends on who you are and how well you know them as they are very different with different people. All of my dh's friends love his family. Of course they do not know them as well as I do but still...

But I agree, basic civility is a must in any relationship. I am at the stage of my life that I am not going to tolerate bs for too long and will either call you on it or cut off ties. Life is too short and precious for us to suffer nasty/mean/rude/inconsiderate behavior.

 

[luv2sparkle]

Chloe, I think we might have done the same thing. Kenny, I don't think it is 'fake' nice-ness, but it can definitely be followed by resentment. It is hard to stand up to your parents!

I think you just have to be prepared ahead of time with a plan. Frankly, that is even hard because it taints the whole evening and give you an attitude before you even see them. I don't know about you, but I hate that feeling.

Sometimes, if you want to keep the peace you just have to decide if it comes down to it you will pay if necessary. That is if you WANT to keep the peace. I am not sure that is worth it, but you have to do what feels right to you in the situation. But feel free to rant here, most of us, (except Kenny!) can understand and sympathize.

 

[monarch64]

WTH? Next time you make dinner plans with your in-laws, you should just call them up and tell them to bring money because you don't intend to foot the entire bill. Problem solved. Crass and rude, yes, but I doubt you'd ever get stuck with the bill again.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Sometimes we teach people how to treat us. I think this is an obvious case of this. You either (A) like the drama, (B) have unrealistic expectations that he is all of the sudden going to change, or (C) don't know how to have or set healthy boundaries. Unless your DH is planning to cut all ties off from his father you need to figure out YOUR reaction, not your FIL's actions. That's all you can change.

 

[movie zombie]

all it involves is a bit of assertiveness. when the order is placed just say "we two are together and we'd like a separate check, please". makes it obvious that the other two are together and will require a separate check. and if the waiter says anything, say "yes, those two are together and will be paying their own'.

odd, in our family we fight over getting to the check first!

but in the past with other people i found that just being direct right from the beginning is the best way to go.

 

[JewelFreak]

It is hard to stand up to your parents!

I think you just have to be prepared ahead of time with a plan. Frankly, that is even hard because it taints the whole evening and give you an attitude before you even see them.

It is hard, until you get sick & tired of realizing you're a chump -- then it gets a lot easier. Your 2nd & 3rd sentences, luv2sparkle, are very true. However, do it once & chances are you won't have to deal with it again.

Missy, it wasn't easy, and DH obviously knew she wasn't my favorite person. But I've never told him how vastly I disliked her (his dad was ok, and I adored his grandfather). Had to clam up many a time. Such as 5 minutes after we picked them up at the airport when they came to the U.S. from Holland for our wedding, 1st time I met them. DH's father says, "Yes, your mother cried for 3 days after hearing you two were getting married." DH was 30 years old, for pete's sake!! I'll never forget how that felt, me the hopeful FI standing there. (I don't think he meant to be cruel -- was simply unbelievably tactless, a Dutch trait.) The 2nd time has become a family laugh -- married in Sept., we went to Holland for Christmas, stayed w/his parents. HIS MOTHER PUT US IN SEPARATE BEDROOMS the 1st night. Freudian, or what?? What a hoot. Her snide comments through all the many years disgusted me, but she made those about everyone she wasn't related to by blood, so I wasn't special. Family ties are illogical & it was important to me not to distress DH over things he couldn't change. By being pleasant & civil, I beat her by not descending to her level. I think she wanted to goad me into nastiness; refusing left her feeling impotent, fine by me.

--- Laurie

 

[Haven]

I remember the last thread about this and had the same curiosity then (and now) about how these things happen.

My own father is the same way. He'd allow us to pay for everything for him if we offered. We just make our plans very clear before any get-together with him so there are no surprises. I'll say "We'd like to take you out to dinner to XYZ restaurant" if we want to pay, and if we don't I say "Let's meet for dinner. Since we're splitting, let's pick the place together" It sounds overly-explicit, but that's how we have to be with him. There have been a couple times where he's said "Oh thank you! You don't have to do that," when I've reached for my wallet when the bill arrived, and if I wasn't planning on paying for him I say, "Oh, I'm just getting out my half." Seems harsh, but it's better than building up even more resentment than I already have.

I do think in-law relations are a bit stickier if your SO isn't on the same page as you. If DH and I went out with his father and he did something like this, I wouldn't be able to be as forward about it if DH just wanted to pay the bill. His father, his call. Luckily, we always make sure we're on the same page before we enter situations that have potential for being sticky.

 

[luv2sparkle]

You are very right Jewelfreak.we have never had this particular issue. DH's brother would always come to family gatherings hours late with no explanation. A few years ago,i just decided I wasnt going to play anymore and told his parents we wouldnt be getting together with them anymore. This year my MIL asked me point blank if I would have everyone over for Thansgiving and I did. BIL showed up early!
First time in 30 years! Conversely, I had an uncle who treated em so badly it would take me a week to recover just from talking to him on the phone. I never could stand up to him because I knew it would mean a complete end to our relationship, and we had a history. It was only the last 15 years of his life with a witch of a new wife that was awful. So, I can see both sides of the issue.

 

[Iowa Lizzy]

Oooh! Your FIL really IS a mooching ninja, isn't he? Hopefully (if there's a next time), you can remember to speak up and request separate checks. It's a shame the server didn't ask from the get-go how the bill would be split.

I went do dinner with my in-laws once when they were visiting us. We have no problem paying as DH makes much more than his folks, but when the bill came, he father opened the holder, looked and the check and then handed it to DH and said "We'll buy breakfast tomorrow." I couldn't believe it. I think he was going to pay until he saw that the bill was for over $120 dollars and then changed his mind. MIL looked mortified.

 

[Gypsy]

Then, at the close of the meal, DH and I got stuck with the check!
I don't even know how it happened...

...

So I gave in and took it and paid.

100% your fault, so you don't get to complain.

I swear, PS is just swarming with fake-niceness followed by resentment.
Where do you gals learn this garbage?

Sorry, I don't intend to be a jerk (although I know you think I am by holding up a mirror) but you just can't have it both ways.

Speak up.
You'll sleep better.
It's not being not-nice, it's being authentic, your true self.
There is nothing "nice" about letting people treat you like a doormat.

TOTALLY AGREE.

 

[Gypsy]

odd, in our family we fight over getting to the check first!

My family too, MZ.

In this scenario, I would have picked up the check and just said... "Our portion is .... X dollars. Would you like me to calculate yours, or do you want to do it yourself?" (said while holding out the check to them).

 

[Gypsy]

I remember the last thread about this and had the same curiosity then (and now) about how these things happen.

My own father is the same way. He'd allow us to pay for everything for him if we offered. We just make our plans very clear before any get-together with him so there are no surprises. I'll say "We'd like to take you out to dinner to XYZ restaurant" if we want to pay, and if we don't I say "Let's meet for dinner. Since we're splitting, let's pick the place together" It sounds overly-explicit, but that's how we have to be with him. There have been a couple times where he's said "Oh thank you! You don't have to do that," when I've reached for my wallet when the bill arrived, and if I wasn't planning on paying for him I say, "Oh, I'm just getting out my half." Seems harsh, but it's better than building up even more resentment than I already have.

I do think in-law relations are a bit stickier if your SO isn't on the same page as you. If DH and I went out with his father and he did something like this, I wouldn't be able to be as forward about it if DH just wanted to pay the bill. His father, his call. Luckily, we always make sure we're on the same page before we enter situations that have potential for being sticky.

 

[missy]

It is hard to stand up to your parents!

I think you just have to be prepared ahead of time with a plan. Frankly, that is even hard because it taints the whole evening and give you an attitude before you even see them.

It is hard, until you get sick & tired of realizing you're a chump -- then it gets a lot easier. Your 2nd & 3rd sentences, luv2sparkle, are very true. However, do it once & chances are you won't have to deal with it again.

Missy, it wasn't easy, and DH obviously knew she wasn't my favorite person. But I've never told him how vastly I disliked her (his dad was ok, and I adored his grandfather). Had to clam up many a time. Such as 5 minutes after we picked them up at the airport when they came to the U.S. from Holland for our wedding, 1st time I met them. DH's father says, "Yes, your mother cried for 3 days after hearing you two were getting married." DH was 30 years old, for pete's sake!! I'll never forget how that felt, me the hopeful FI standing there. (I don't think he meant to be cruel -- was simply unbelievably tactless, a Dutch trait.) The 2nd time has become a family laugh -- married in Sept., we went to Holland for Christmas, stayed w/his parents. HIS MOTHER PUT US IN SEPARATE BEDROOMS the 1st night. Freudian, or what?? What a hoot. Her snide comments through all the many years disgusted me, but she made those about everyone she wasn't related to by blood, so I wasn't special. Family ties are illogical & it was important to me not to distress DH over things he couldn't change. By being pleasant & civil, I beat her by not descending to her level. I think she wanted to goad me into nastiness; refusing left her feeling impotent, fine by me.

--- Laurie

Laurie, you did the right thing and the smart thing. Nice when those two mesh.

 

[jewelerman]

I am sorry that you had to pay for dinner to learn this experience!But it looks like it was a valuable one for the future to not let this man walk over you any longer.If this were me i would stop allowing him to put you in this situation again by just refusing to go out to dinner with him where he can do this to you!why spend your valuable time and money with people that treat you like this! I know i will get beat up from people that say its because hes family,but that's even worse to do this to your own son. The man needs professional help and i wouldn't allow myself to be drawn into his abuse because hes family. The only way hes going to stop being manipulative and change his behavior is if you stop allowing it.Good luck with the next dinner invite. TELL HIM THANKS BUT NO THANKS!

 

[distracts]

FIL has pulled similar stuff before. When he was still married to his ex, they would invite us out to dinner and then as soon as we were seated he would tell the server we'd be having separate checks.
At a birthday brunch for my SIL one year (I didn't make it to that one for some reason) FIL ended up paying the check for the whole family's meal at ihop and since he paid for my hubby he said "you owe me one!" My thoughts: really, you can't just buy your son a $6 breakfast without needing something in return?!

This doesn't seem weird to me. I don't see why it would? Is it possible he was just joking about your husband owing him one? And at most meals with people who I'm not intending to pay for, we tell the server right when we're sitting down that we're having separate checks, because it's usually easier for the server that way, as they can keep things separate all along instead of having to go over it later. My fiance and I often get separate checks when eating with my parents. I don't see why there's the expectation that the FIL would always pay, just because he invited you out.

My DH's response is that we were guilted into paying.
About half way through the meal, FIL randomly says "well thank you." DH and I looked at eachother and thought "thank you for what...does he think we're paying?"
So when we were finished and the waiter brought the check and set it down in the middle of the table, no one reached for it. FIL and his girlfriend didn't even look at it. So I gave in and took it and paid.
I was so close to saying "excuse me, we need separate checks." I wish I would have. And I will next time (if of course I get stuck having dinner with these people again.)
DH is now referring to his dad as a "mooching ninja."
When we left and got in the car we weren't really sure what had just happened.

ETA: I think in this case, it is because DH has a long history of letting is father walk all over him. When he was a teenager living in his dad's house, we would write a monthly check to him almost as if he was paying rent. I'm not sure why FIL thinks his son owes him anything...?

Again, this doesn't seem like they did it? Are you sure the father was thanking you guys for the meal, or could he have been thanking you guys for spending some of NYE with him/going out with him/anything else? I know my parents profusely thank me for spending time with them, which is weird since I see them multiple times a week, but whatever. Or when the original plans were being made, did he ask you to TAKE him out to dinner? Because that could have given him the impression from the beginning that you guys agreed to pay. And that you picked it up and paid because they didn't reach for the check? That's all on you. Maybe they didn't feel like it was time to pay and leave yet, or didn't notice that it had been brought. I know I've watched waiters set down checks only to realize like half an hour later, hey, the bill arrived, maybe I should do something about it. And that you paid the whole thing instead of asking them how they wanted to split it - also on you. I just don't see how this is the FIL's fault, when there are SO many simple things you could have done to not pay.

I'm not saying that your FIL isn't nuts and you aren't right to have problems with him... I just don't see how this is one of them, except that you made it into one. I think you shouldn't be worried about clarifying before, during, or after the meal who exactly is paying, and speaking up if you think it's unfair. If you already dislike your FIL to the point where you are making a fuss with your husband about spending time with him (which I completely understand, having been in similar situations myself), it's not as if it could make matters worse.

 

[decodelighted]

In this world a LOT of money is spent trying to buy our way out of momentary discomfort. I LOVE LOVE LOVE Haven's quip/response "NO, I'm just getting out my half!"

 

[StacylikesSparkles]

Sometimes we teach people how to treat us. I think this is an obvious case of this. You either (A) like the drama, (B) have unrealistic expectations that he is all of the sudden going to change, or (C) don't know how to have or set healthy boundaries. Unless your DH is planning to cut all ties off from his father you need to figure out YOUR reaction, not your FIL's actions. That's all you can change.

This.

 

[jaysonsmom]

Let me preface by saying that I don't really like my in-laws, however, I know that we are financially better off, so paying when we go out has become the norm for us, and for them. You can't draw a straight line when it comes to family. Also, if you think of the how many times your FIL has paid (in all different of ways)during your dh's childhood, it'd take a lifetime of paying for your FIL to make up for it!

 

[movie zombie]

Let me preface by saying that I don't really like my in-laws, however, I know that we are financially better off, so paying when we go out has become the norm for us, and for them. You can't draw a straight line when it comes to family. Also, if you think of the how many times your FIL has paid (in all different of ways)during your dh's childhood, it'd take a lifetime of paying for your FIL to make up for it!

that actually has a lot of merit.......but i'm guessing there are other underlying issues regarding the dynamic between father and son.