omigod, save my marriage, need a ruby ring!

[jeffd]

Hi,

I promised my wife a ruby rink for xmas and here we are in may, she's been good about waiting but I've been so busy at work that I just haven't been able to get off the mark.

I noticed ashman started a thread about a ruby engagement ring and honestly, I suffer from a lot of the same confusion so analysis paralysis is part of my problem. In ashman's thread, psproot12 recommended these rubies on ebay, all with gia certs.

are these crapshoots, even with gia certs?

thanks,
jd


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unheated-GIA-Certified-Pigeon-s-blood-Red-Natural-Ruby-Oval-1-10-ct-/161293241012?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item258dd38ab4

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIA-Certified-Unheated-Ruby-2-07-Cts-VVS-Near-VIVID-RED-/231208093690?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item35d51387fa (I personally think this stone is amazing)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-10-Carat-GIA-Certified-Unheated-Oval-Cut-Pigeon-Blood-Red-Ruby-/261121696543?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item3ccc10e31f (This stone would be 40-50k set in a ring on bluenile)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIA-MAGNIFICENT-SUPER-GEM-5-28-CT-NO-HEAT-RUBY-AMAZING-COCKTAIL-RING-/251520456619?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item3a8fc997ab

 

[jeffd]

it seems to me this is nice with minimum treatment from a trusted seller:

http://www.preciousgemstones.com/141mongrufs.html

any thoughts?

 

[minousbijoux]

Hmm, I don't even know where to start. I would steer clear of all of those stones. Your goal is to find the prettiest stone/ring for the level of treatment acceptable to you within your budget, correct? If that is the case, I would not settle for a stone just because it has lab report already, as most reputable vendors will work with you and make a lab report a condition of sale. I would instead find a stone that has the color and other factors you love and then work to make sure it is indeed as stated. So think about these questions and know that unless your budget runs into the multiples of tens of thousands, you likely will have to figure out what is most important to you/your wife. 1) What is your budget? 2) What is the acceptable level of treatment to you? 3) Roughly what size stone are you looking for? 4) Is an eye clean stone important to you, or would a stone that had some visible inclusions be okay? 5) Do you want vivid red? Could it be slightly pinkish? Could it be slightly orangish? Could it be a little darker in tone?

I have added my comments on each stone immediately following the link.

In ashman's thread, psproot12 recommended these rubies on ebay, all with gia certs.

are these crapshoots, even with gia certs?

thanks,
jd


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unheated-GIA-Certified-Pigeon-s-blood-Red-Natural-Ruby-Oval-1-10-ct-/161293241012?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item258dd38ab4

Overly dark, very shallow and badly cut. Pass.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIA-Certified-Unheated-Ruby-2-07-Cts-VVS-Near-VIVID-RED-/231208093690?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item35d51387fa (I personally think this stone is amazing)

Overly dark, shallow and badly cut. Also, I would question whether it is in fact eye clean as there appears to be some black spots and a dark area (perhaps zoning?) in the stone. Pass. Oh, and anything that describes itself as "near vivid" just so vivid will show up in the search function? Big no. Also, I have never seen a GIA report that did not have the carat weight on it and wonder why it does not; makes me suspect.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-10-Carat-GIA-Certified-Unheated-Oval-Cut-Pigeon-Blood-Red-Ruby-/261121696543?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item3ccc10e31f (This stone would be 40-50k set in a ring on bluenile)

Overly dark, shallow to the point of pancake, badly cut, not eye clean. Stay away from anything described as milky!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIA-MAGNIFICENT-SUPER-GEM-5-28-CT-NO-HEAT-RUBY-AMAZING-COCKTAIL-RING-/251520456619?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item3a8fc997ab

I am so put off by the ad, that I can hardly see the stone. The problem with buying a preset stone like this one is that one cannot tell if there is damage or any inclusions hidden by the setting. This ruby appears to be lighter in tone than the rest, though that may because its being blasted with light. It has an orange modifier (not pinkish/violet). The diamonds look grey and included and the ruby itself appears included (depending upon how the light hits it, they may be quite noticable or less so). Pass.

Go ahead and read through the questions and try to give us as much of your thinking as possible. Do not fear! We will try and help!

 

[minousbijoux]

it seems to me this is nice with minimum treatment from a trusted seller:

http://www.preciousgemstones.com/141mongrufs.html

any thoughts?

Sorry, I missed this! While the price is low, its highly included. Would that bother you? That means you'd get color but not a lot of flash or sparkle.

 

[movie zombie]

I suggest you give her a budget and let her get her own ruby ring.....and that because you are so "delinquent" in your gift that she charage you 10% interest on that budget amount as "interest" for a delinquent debt!

or

hire a personal shopper. I know you've been busy but it if you're only looking at ebay sources, well, you're still too busy to do this justice.

LOL, your wife is a saint! I don't know too many women [myself included] that would be this patient! me? I'd have started researching it back in July 2013 and bought the ring myself....and then told you what you'd gotten me for Christmas.......

oh, and Gene has a ruby I've eyed for years....small and affordable but the cut isn't for everyone: http://www.precisiongem.com/Gemstones/rapidcart/ruby.html

 

[minousbijoux]

Check here: http://www.gemfix.com/ruby.html#thumb

and here: http://www.ajsgem.com/burma-ruby-gemstone-ruby-2046340429.html?weight[min]=&weight[max]=&sell_price[min]=&sell_price[max]=&sort_by=sell_price&sort_order=DESC&items_per_page=15&page=2

If you have an antique sensibility in mind and you don't mind preset, I would also check: http://www.langantiques.com/search/quick-search/publish_date/desc/

 

[jeffd]

thanks for everyone's help, much, much appreciated! here are some answers:

1) What is your budget?
$10-$15k

2) What is the acceptable level of treatment to you?
would prefer untreated

3) Roughly what size stone are you looking for?
at least a carat

4) Is an eye clean stone important to you, or would a stone that had some visible inclusions be okay?
eye clean

5) Do you want vivid red? Could it be slightly pinkish? Could it be slightly orangish? Could it be a little darker in tone?
vivid red

but life is a compromise, if I could end up with a much bigger stone with minimal treatment, that'd be in the mix.

 

[Niel]

I don't know if its red enough for you but I love the one: second row middle at gemfix. Not untreated but heat only and 2 CTS. So fits the last sentence you said

If it looks like its pics, anyways.

 

[Ashman]

Hi,

I promised my wife a ruby rink for xmas and here we are in may, she's been good about waiting but I've been so busy at work that I just haven't been able to get off the mark.

I noticed ashman started a thread about a ruby engagement ring and honestly, I suffer from a lot of the same confusion so analysis paralysis is part of my problem. In ashman's thread, psproot12 recommended these rubies on ebay, all with gia certs.

are these crapshoots, even with gia certs?

thanks,
jd


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unheated-GIA-Certified-Pigeon-s-blood-Red-Natural-Ruby-Oval-1-10-ct-/161293241012?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item258dd38ab4

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIA-Certified-Unheated-Ruby-2-07-Cts-VVS-Near-VIVID-RED-/231208093690?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item35d51387fa (I personally think this stone is amazing)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-10-Carat-GIA-Certified-Unheated-Oval-Cut-Pigeon-Blood-Red-Ruby-/261121696543?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item3ccc10e31f (This stone would be 40-50k set in a ring on bluenile)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIA-MAGNIFICENT-SUPER-GEM-5-28-CT-NO-HEAT-RUBY-AMAZING-COCKTAIL-RING-/251520456619?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item3a8fc997ab

Hey Jd wow it's crazy how your story is the same as mine in every sense of the way, even down to timeline and budget.

After reading the great posts from minous seems even harder for fresh meat like us to buy a legit ruby ring at a fair and honest price.

With that said good luck it seems so hard and minous , how can you tell from those photos the cut is bad? Also do you mind posting links to what ruby you would buy for 10k or so .

 

[minousbijoux]

I don't know if you've read this starter thread, but if you haven't, you might find it useful. It might help you decide where you might be willing to compromise: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

 

[Ashman]

I don't know if you've read this starter thread, but if you haven't, you might find it useful. It might help you decide where you might be willing to compromise: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

Yes I have, along with so many others on here. I have spent so many hours reading and researching and to be honest I get even more confused. Example I'm now hearing even with Gia papers saying no heat treat just means they haven't found any signs of heating but that doesn't mean it hasn't been heat treated?

What am I looking for mad what's most important? I honestly don't know because the more I read it seems the all lack in certain things. I'm very new to this but I find it crazy 10k on a loose little ruby and you still can't get perfect ? Seems tricky. I just want a quality stone that is worth the price if that makes any sense ?

 

[T L]

I don't know if you've read this starter thread, but if you haven't, you might find it useful. It might help you decide where you might be willing to compromise: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

Yes I have, along with so many others on here. I have spent so many hours reading and researching and to be honest I get even more confused. Example I'm now hearing even with Gia papers saying no heat treat just means they haven't found any signs of heating but that doesn't mean it hasn't been heat treated?

What am I looking for mad what's most important? I honestly don't know because the more I read it seems the all lack in certain things. I'm very new to this but I find it crazy 10k on a loose little ruby and you still can't get perfect ? Seems tricky. I just want a quality stone that is worth the price if that makes any sense ?

Ruby shopping is something I would never recommend to a gem novice. That being said, I hope someone here can help you. I wouldn't rule out heated rubies either. As long as they can prove there's no diffusion with high tech equipment like a mass spectrometer, I would be fine. Fillers are also easy to determine. Heated stones are perfectly acceptable by the trade, as long as they're not diffused, lead glass filled or highly filled with polymers and resins, etc. . . They're also more affordable.

Africagems.com also has many rubies, and they're a reputable dealer.

 

[minousbijoux]

Hi Ashman I will try and find a $10K ruby that I would buy, but to be honest, ruby is one of the few stones that I don't own - and its not that I don't want to. When I stop to think about it, it feels like rubies have increased in price even faster than blue sapphires, which have been escalating at a scary pace.

A few things to note: if you like a slightly darker than ideal stone, or don't mind an orangey modifier, that will work in your favor price-wise. The coveted color is medium to medium dark with a pink/purple modifier. Gemfix 561 looks to be a very pretty stone, as does 563.

AJS is a bit pricier, but has a decent inventory:

http://www.ajsgem.com/ruby/burma-ruby/burma-ruby-1.68-carats.html

http://www.ajsgem.com/ruby/burma-ruby/burma-ruby-1.27-carats.html

http://www.ajsgem.com/ruby/burma-ruby/burma-ruby-1.32-carats.html-1

I would check with Roger Dery of Spectral Gems. He does not have all his inventory on his website, and it might be that he has something. For a while, he had old (and extremely competitive) pricing on some of his blue sapphires. I don't know if this holds true for his rubies, but its worth an ask. http://www.spectralgems.net/ruby/

http://www.preciousgemstones.com/141mongrufs.html

 

[minousbijoux]

I don't know if you've read this starter thread, but if you haven't, you might find it useful. It might help you decide where you might be willing to compromise: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

Yes I have, along with so many others on here. I have spent so many hours reading and researching and to be honest I get even more confused. Example I'm now hearing even with Gia papers saying no heat treat just means they haven't found any signs of heating but that doesn't mean it hasn't been heat treated?

What am I looking for mad what's most important? I honestly don't know because the more I read it seems the all lack in certain things. I'm very new to this but I find it crazy 10k on a loose little ruby and you still can't get perfect ? Seems tricky. I just want a quality stone that is worth the price if that makes any sense ?

Yeah, its hard, but not impossible. Ashman, it might make it easier to continue your own thread. I say that because it might start to get confusing to be looking for two people with different goals and requirements.

Its not as hard as it seems though. As TL said, the difficult part is trying to figure out if it has had more invasive treatment than just heat. But if a reputable lab says a stone is unheated, you can be confident that it is untreated. If you found a heated stone but were not sure if its had more invasive treatment, sending it to AGL, GIA or a few others will answer the question. We'll help you both!

 

[T L]

Actually a medium tone and pinkish red is the trade coveted color, like fine Burmese rubies.

Here's a top quality ruby to show you that fine color. You will probably not be able to afford this, but it gives you an idea of what high quality ruby color looks like. A lot of rubies, such as Thai rubies, have lots of dark spots, or extinction, which is something you may also want to avoid, depending on your budget. A heated ruby will give you more affordable options for better color. A one carat fine Burmese ruby which is untreated, is way above your budget.

Fine rubies shouldn't be too orange, purple, or pink. They need to be clearly red as the primary color, and the best are pinkish reds.

The bottom image is a Thai ruby ring, and notice the extinction, dark overall tone, and orange secondary color. I would avoid material like that. It's just not worth the money. The top image is a fine Burmese ruby. Fine rubies can be found in African material as well, although Burma is well known for the finest in the world.

 

[minousbijoux]

Africagems.com is another good source. To give yourself a leg up, you might want to see some rubies at a gem show. Take your wife (that'll buy some time) and enjoy yourself. It will help you discern what your preferences are regarding the tone, and hue (and modifiers that are acceptable to you). If you've seen some, it becomes a lot easier to then purchase online.

 

[jeffd]

thanks everyone for the info. I'm with ashman on this and point in case are minous' two, generously made, suggestions on gemfix,561 and 563. Both are sourced from the same place, the less expensive stone half the price and more carats than the more expensive stone. both treated with heat. Why does one cost so much more than the other?

thanks,
jd

-------------------------------------
Ruby Oval/Cushion Mixed Cut
Weight: 2.08 cts
Measurements: 8.2x6.5mm, depth 4.6mm
Clarity: VVS
Origin: Mozambique
Enhancements: Heat only
Price: $ 12480.00
Order/Stock No.: ruby_561
Description: Ooooh!!! BIG rasberry-red ruby cushion. Excellent clarity, Deep cool red with flashes of Pantone Coated Color Card "Ruby Red". Certified heat only, AGL lab report included.

==============================================
Ruby Cushion "Portuguese" Style Cut
Weight: 2.34 cts
Measurements: 8.6x6.1 mm, depth 4.9mm
Clarity: VVS-VS
Origin: Mozambique
Enhancements: Heat
Price: $ 5950.00
Order/Stock No.: ruby_563
Description: Large and beautiful ruby cushion, typical ruby haziness but no glaring inclusions. Deep pinkish red, Pantone calls this one "Ruby RedC".
GIA lab report included.

 

[minousbijoux]

Actually a medium tone and pinkish red is the trade coveted color, like fine Burmese rubies.

Thanks for correcting my hasty response.

 

[jeffd]

. A one carat fine Burmese ruby which is untreated, is way above your budget.

tl, thanks for posting the pictures that was a lot of help, these seem to be 1ct in our respective budgets, no?

http://www.preciousgemstones.com/1153burufs.html
www.preciousgemstones.com/101burufs.html

 

[T L]

. A one carat fine Burmese ruby which is untreated, is way above your budget.

tl, thanks for posting the pictures that was a lot of help, these seem to be 1ct in our respective budgets, no?

http://www.preciousgemstones.com/1153burufs.html
www.preciousgemstones.com/101burufs.html

Are those stones still available?

Ajsgems.com has some rubies as well, and they can obtain a GRS report for you, which is akin to an GIA report, but it's a reputable European lab.

 

[T L]

thanks everyone for the info. I'm with ashman on this and point in case are minous' two, generously made, suggestions on gemfix,561 and 563. Both are sourced from the same place, the less expensive stone half the price and more carats than the more expensive stone. both treated with heat. Why does one cost so much more than the other?

thanks,
jd

-------------------------------------
Ruby Oval/Cushion Mixed Cut
Weight: 2.08 cts
Measurements: 8.2x6.5mm, depth 4.6mm
Clarity: VVS
Origin: Mozambique
Enhancements: Heat only
Price: $ 12480.00
Order/Stock No.: ruby_561
Description: Ooooh!!! BIG rasberry-red ruby cushion. Excellent clarity, Deep cool red with flashes of Pantone Coated Color Card "Ruby Red". Certified heat only, AGL lab report included.

==============================================
Ruby Cushion "Portuguese" Style Cut
Weight: 2.34 cts
Measurements: 8.6x6.1 mm, depth 4.9mm
Clarity: VVS-VS
Origin: Mozambique
Enhancements: Heat
Price: $ 5950.00
Order/Stock No.: ruby_563
Description: Large and beautiful ruby cushion, typical ruby haziness but no glaring inclusions. Deep pinkish red, Pantone calls this one "Ruby RedC".
GIA lab report included.

You can ask why there is a price difference, but I suspect its because the first one is eye clean, and the second one is "hazy" as he calls it.

 

[minousbijoux]

I don't know if those rubies from preciousgemstones.com are still available, but its worth contacting Robert Genis.

If Gemfix's 563 is hazy, I would pass on that as well, unless you are happy with color. Sometimes the silk that makes it hazy can give it a glow. The typical tradeoff though, unless its a wildly coveted Burmese ruby of highest caliber (way out of the price range of mere mortals) is that it will lack the sparkle and scintillation of a clean stone. Others may not mind, but its a deal killer for me.

 

[jeffd]

here are some questions:

how about this from african gems:
http://www.africagems.com/oval-red-ruby-g2k-4778.html

or these from precious gemstones (the certs have better pictures but maybe I should see if he has better?)
http://www.preciousgemstones.com/1153burufs.html
www.preciousgemstones.com/101burufs.html


are the online prices negotiable? I wonder if ashman and I bought from the same source at the same time if it would give us leverage on price?

 

[T L]

here are some questions:

how about this from african gems:
http://www.africagems.com/oval-red-ruby-g2k-4778.html

or these from precious gemstones (the certs have better pictures but maybe I should see if he has better?)
http://www.preciousgemstones.com/1153burufs.html
www.preciousgemstones.com/101burufs.html


are the online prices negotiable? I wonder if ashman and I bought from the same source at the same time if it would give us leverage on price?

When shopping for a ruby, I would ask for "hand shots," indoors, and in sunlight. You must also make sure it fluoresces, which is a special quality of rubies, making them appear neon red in the sun. Some red spinels do that as well. This also means that the stone is lacking in iron, which often kills gem saturation.

Prices are always negotiable. Always ask, the worst the dealer can do is say "no."

I haven't looked at your links yet, but I do know Africagems will provide additional shots, and a video if need be. Always ask for a sunshine shot.

The foremost lab in the world for colored gemstones is AGL, but GIA, and GRS are also very good. I would probably be happy with any of those three reports for a ruby as long as all and any treatment is exposed. Also, just something to note, these labs do not "certify" anything. These are not "certificates," but "reports," and the opinion of the gemologist in question who is examining the ruby. I like AGL because Christopher Smith is one of the best gemologists there is, and he will be examining your stone. They're also very thorough.

Good luck.

ETA: After looking at your links, the first ruby depicted has those "dark spots" that I noted above in the Thai ruby, although not as bad as that particular example. You will be getting a slightly larger ruby for your money, so color may be a tradeoff.

The other two links show nice stones, but they're not very good pictures. I would definitely need better shots.

 

[T L]

I don't know if those rubies from preciousgemstones.com are still available, but its worth contacting Robert Genis.

If Gemfix's 563 is hazy, I would pass on that as well, unless you are happy with color. Sometimes the silk that makes it hazy can give it a glow. The typical tradeoff though, unless its a wildly coveted Burmese ruby of highest caliber (way out of the price range of mere mortals) is that it will lack the sparkle and scintillation of a clean stone. Others may not mind, but its a deal killer for me.

I don't mind haziness in rubies, but it's definitely a speculative thing. It will give you a better price. A "sleepy" ruby can be a great value. Cabochons are also good values too if you can find one that is sleepy, but has great color. It's all about color with rubies to me, sparkle is a secondary consideration. It's nice, but if a ruby has fantastic neon color, I won't miss sparkle at all.

 

[minousbijoux]

I don't know if those rubies from preciousgemstones.com are still available, but its worth contacting Robert Genis.

If Gemfix's 563 is hazy, I would pass on that as well, unless you are happy with color. Sometimes the silk that makes it hazy can give it a glow. The typical tradeoff though, unless its a wildly coveted Burmese ruby of highest caliber (way out of the price range of mere mortals) is that it will lack the sparkle and scintillation of a clean stone. Others may not mind, but its a deal killer for me.

I don't mind haziness in rubies, but it's definitely a speculative thing. It will give you a better price. A "sleepy" ruby can be a great value. Cabochons are also good values too if you can find one that is sleepy, but has great color. It's all about color with rubies to me, sparkle is a secondary consideration. It's nice, but if a ruby has fantastic neon color, I won't miss sparkle at all.

And this dialogue, jeffd, is a great example of why you need to see them and decide for yourself. Some of us go for color above all including silky/hazy stones, and some don't. Matter of taste. There is no "right" answer when it comes to gemstones - you need to get what you love. If you live in the States, there is a good chance that there is an Intergem show not too far from you. It makes for a nice outing, and a great way to see stones first hand.

 

[jeffd]

thanks, there is an intergem show close by but not until august. I work about 10 minutes from the NYC diamond district, anyone know of any good dealers there?

tia,

 

[minousbijoux]

You have some excellent sources in NYC that you should check out, like Primagems. I don't know where they are in comparison to the diamond district, but definitely worth a visit. Another one that is located in NYC is Natural Sapphire Company. That would be a great place to see a bunch of rubies first hand.

 

[T L]

thanks, there is an intergem show close by but not until august. I work about 10 minutes from the NYC diamond district, anyone know of any good dealers there?

tia,

Just don't ever buy any ruby whatsoever without an accompanying reputable lab report, preferably from GRS, GIA or AGL. THere are lots of dealers selling diffused rubies to unsuspecting people. Again, rubies are one of the most difficult gemstones to buy, and that's why you should always go with a highly reputable dealer who has an excellent return policy, and stands 100% behind their merchandise. I've had enough nightmares at gem shows to be aware of this. It is a good place to look and compare though.

 

[T L]

You have some excellent sources in NYC that you should check out, like Primagems. I don't know where they are in comparison to the diamond district, but definitely worth a visit. Another one that is located in NYC is Natural Sapphire Company. That would be a great place to see a bunch of rubies first hand.

I don't think Prima has rubies, at least I didn't see any on his website. I could be wrong, but it would be good to call first to find out. He also specializes in African material. I don't think he carries gems from other locations, but again I could be wrong.

primagemsusa.com