Old European Cut and Mounting

[1981]

Hi Everyone,

I''m a long time reader and 1st time poster. I''m sure you get a ton of those around here. Anyway, I''m getting ready to purchase an engagement ring for my gf. I have been looking forever and am ridiculously nervous about finding the right one. She wants an antique mounting and an antique stone. I believe, after MUCH due-diligence that I have found what i''m looking for. I was wondering if any of you could tell me if this price sounded right to you, though.

I am purchasing a 1.28 ct Old European cut diamond with J color and SI1 clarity. It is GIA certified and I have seen it next to an uncertified 1.5 carat K color OEC and several other diamonds. To me, this diamond looked the prettiest. I wish it were bigger, but oh well. Anyway, the guy is going to charge me $5800. Does that sound legit? I know you probably need some other specs (which I''m trying to get now), but for now, can you advise?

I found a mounting by a group called whitehousebrothers. It is a replica piece, but this is a group that has been around for 110 years. So they used to make these back when they WERE anitques and they swear their craftsmanship is still impeccable. I was looking to find an actual antique mounting, but after searching forever, I couldn''t find a bezel set one that I thought she''d like. So, I found one and they are going to swap out the side diamonds to a lesser grade to beeter match the center stone, plus take it from a prong setting to a bezel setting. Anyway, The guy i''m working with is saying I could go with 14k white gold, platinum or something I think he called "Platanium." Have any of you heard of that? He is recomending that I go the platanium route, b/c it''s not as expensive as platinum, but way more durable thatn 14k white gold. He wants $2800 for the mounting. So, it looks like i''m in for about $8600. I need to bring him a deposit on Thursday if i''m going through with this. I''ll be honest, i am scared to death that i''m going to screw this up...but what do you think of the price?

Thanks for your help too

 

[mrssalvo]

the pricing sounds high for the stone the Whitehousebrothers setting to me. and do you mean palladium? If you really love the stone I would suggest having it appraised by and independent appraiser with the sale contingent upon his/her finds so you know you are getting what you are paying for. Ari at singlestone comes across a ton of antique mountings so I would suggest getting a real antique mounting to fit your stone (if you keep it, from him) But I would first see what he''s got regarding the stone and setting or an already complete ring that falls within your budget. you''ve got a great budget, I personally would do some more research and shopping around before spending your almost 9K.

I would suggest contacting Ari at www.singlestone.com

or

Erica or Grace at www.jewelsbyericagrace.com

either of them can find you a gorgeous authentic old cut stone and setting.

 

[1981]

Thank you for responding.

The stone is a GIA certifed OEC that the guy I am dealing with brought in for me to take a look at. He brought in 6 other stones too. 4 were GIA cert, 2 were not. So he, not whitehousebrothers is charging me $5800 for the stone.

Whitehouse brothers is who he found a mounitng I like through and they want $2800 for the mounting. And yes, it is palladium. Is palladium a good choice?

I will contact Ari, but I am really close to pulling the trigger on this other one

 

[1981]

I emailed Ari.

Also, let me ask this question. I''m dealing with an independent jeweler who brought in loose OEC diamonds for me to look at. He also brought in antique mountings and a couple of mountings from whitehouse brothers. He gave me a lsit of what the diamonds cost and what the mountings cost. Is this negotiable? If the numbers he gave me total $8600 can I say, look, I''ll give you $7500?

 

[oldminer]

The Whitehouse mountings I have seen were old designs of recent manufacture, but they were not made with the overall look or workmanship of the old world craftsmen of 100 year ago. They may have improved over the past few years or the one you want may be a good one, but my own impression was that these were rather expensive and not quite on the mark for having all the right attributes of the original rings they are supposed to mimic.

Palladium is a good metal for diamond jewelry, but it feels light weight, sort of like 14 karat gold, and not heavy like platinum feels. When the rhodium plating wears away, palladium is a rather gray metal. This may be okay for you, or it may not be white enough. Palladium is a lot less monty than platinum, but there is nothing at all wrong with 14 or 18 karat white gold for these sorts of estate look reproductions, either. Besides, gold rings are easier to get re-sized and likely will cost less than palladium or platinum.

 

[1981]

David,

Thanks for responding. So, is it your opinion that I should steer clear of whithousebrothers?

 

[mrssalvo]

glad you emailed Ari. I think you can find a much better priced stone and know you can get a higher quality setting from him. Please slow down and don''t just pull the trigger yet!

 

[oldminer]

Don't take my advice as "steering clear" of anyone, but just look, learn and shop until you feel you have the right item. Many people have bought and enjoyed Whitehouse rings. I may be not their best fan, but taken on a case by case basis, I am certain they have much to offer. Just be sure it is for you when you commit.

 

[litebrite]

Congratulations, welcome to PS and I''m sure she''ll be thrilled with the final ring and the thought you put in! Since you asked, $2800 sounds expensive for a white gold or palladium setting, somewhat less so for a platinum setting.

A lot of people on this forum have had amazing experiences with James Meyer makes antique looking rings and has excellent craftsmanship in gold and platinum. They rave about his work, and it seems from photos to be really substantial. Some folks even have OECs and other antique cuts in his rings, and they all look great, and from what I''ve seen on PS, he''s very reasonably priced and way less than Whitehouse. Here are a bunch of photos of JM rings

For comparison, Mark Morrell who works in platinum and is also very highly regarded here as a master craftsman, has rings for 1.25 ct stones at 2000 without surprise diamonds. Mark Morrell He doesn''t do as much of the antique look but I thought it might be a good comparison point, since his craftsmanship is sublime.

If you have photos of settings, that would help us help you

 

[1981]

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[1981]

Sorry. How do I copy and paste pics directly on my post without having to just link the pics?

 

[1981]

Ok. As explained earlier, I am looking at a 1.28 carat diamond. This is the mounting I am looking at at Whitehousebrothers:
http://www.whitehousebrothers.com/detail.php?id=111

I know that it is prong set, but they said they could go back and bezel set it for me.

Here is a link to a ring I know she loves that I am trying to get somewhat close to in style:
http://www.estatediamondjewelry.com/item.cfm?int_item_id=57&cat_id=1

Pay no attetnion to the sapphires. She''d prefer those be diamonds anyway. It is the bezel set and the rest of the ring she loves.

I also saw this ring on one of the threads on here and really liked it.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mounted-ingwer-1-06ct-rb-i-si1.82831/

Do you guys think it is possible/likely to achieve this look with the diamond I''ve alluded to and the mounting I have selected from whitehousebrothers?

I greatly appreciate everyone''s help here.

 

[mrssalvo]

1981- I think you could probably achieve the look you are going for but you will over pay and I honestly would not purchase anything from whitehouse brothers personally. not when there are so many wonderful designers out there who can provide you will a better crafted ring for less money. the white house setting you linked also says it''s made for a 1.5-2 carat stone. OEC cut stones usually are cut deep meaning that a 1.28 carat OEC might very well face up in size like a ideal cut 1 carat modern round stone. so, the stone you are thinking about might not even fit into that setting. Did you hear anything back from Ari? He is usually pretty quick to reply to emails and very easy to access on the phone. You can send him pictures of the rings you like and see what he''s got. also, the Whiteflash ring you posted is lovely. I would take a Whiteflash setting over a Whitehouse brothers in a heartbeat. But, I would still suggest having the stone appraised before you buy b/c I personally would not pay $5800 for for a J SI OEC.

 

[1981]

Yes, I have been speaking with Ari. He has been super-helpful. I''m still awaiting the complete specs on that diamond, but he seemed to think that that price was about right for what it was. He was very imformative though and gave me some good advice on some things I need to look for in the diamond to be sure it''s quality. So, I feel pretty good about the diamond. Especially since I have seen it, touched it and even viewed it under a microscope. It looks nice.

The mounting is where I''m really having issues now. Ari was very good about explaining everything to me and didn''t put down other potential places, but instead just informed me as to what to look for and how i''d best achieve what i''m looking for. MrsSalvo, if I can ask, what is it that you don''t like about whitehouse brothers? If I went with White Gold, i think I could get it for closer to $2,000 as opposed to Palladium

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 9/8/2009 5:36:04 PM
Author: 1981
MrsSalvo, if I can ask, what is it that you don''t like about whitehouse brothers? If I went with White Gold, i think I could get it for closer to $2,000 as opposed to Palladium

I just find the workmanship to be okay in the settings I''ve seen. I am very picky though and researched settings for years before picking out one for myself and just prefer higher end crafted heirloom quality type pieces. But, if you have seen the setting in person and are happy with the quality and the price that really is all the matters

I''m also glad Ari has been helpful. He knows his old cuts so he''s a good resource.

 

[1981]

I may end up having Ari take a crack at making a setting for me. Where did you end up getting yours from? Would it be best to just have someone build it for me?

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 9/8/2009 5:53:09 PM
Author: 1981
I may end up having Ari take a crack at making a setting for me. Where did you end up getting yours from? Would it be best to just have someone build it for me?

well, Ari does amazing custom work but he''s expensive. It surely might be worth it to have him give you a quote though. I really think part of the charm of antique stones is when they are in antique settings so I would really see if Ari has any already there that would work with your stone before I went the custom route. Quest jewelers made an antique tiffany reproduction for me years ago for my OEC and did a wonderful job and was very reasonable in price so you might consider them as well if you are thinking about going with a custom ring. Here is a picture of the ring they made for me.

 

[1981]

Wow, that ring is incredible! And if you knew me at all, you''d know I don''t use words like "wow" and "incredible" when referring to jewelry. Speaking with Ari, i didn get the impression he''d be a little expensive...but also that he''d do great work.

Believe me, when I went in to this whole endeavor, I was looking for strictly antique stones and settings (hopefully as one whole piece). The fact of the matter is, I know what she likes style wise and I don''t think I should sacrifice that for authenticity of an antique mounting. I know that that statement is probably contrary to what 90% of the people feel on here, but I''m to the point now where if I can get her an antique stone in a newer, well made, but anique looking setting in the style she wants, i believe that is the route I should go. I appreciate your thoughts and responses and welcome advice, leads suggestions from you and anyone else. I am going to check out Quest now (online.)

 

[1981]

Can anyone suggest a decent website or place where I may be able to find antique and antique replica mountings?

 

[Loves Vintage]

Here''s another site: http://antiqueengagementrings.com/

I believe that Singlestone makes their settings by hand, whereas AntiqueEngagementRings.com casts their rings. Someone could correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that is why Ari''s prices are generally higher.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Also, there are a lot of vintage jewelry sites listed in this thread:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vintage-jewelery-sites.124659/

Lang Antiques has many lovely rings. If a particular setting interests you, you can e-mail them to see if they will set your stone. I notice some of their rings are set with modern round brilliants, so I would guess they sell the settings separately. Or, if you find a ring that you really like, you could always use that as inspiration for the design of a new setting.

 

[glitterata]

There's antiqueengagementrings.com. The owner is super nice and the reproduction settings are pretty and not expensive, but the quality is just decent, not spectacular. (I have one of their settings.) Edited to add: Yes, their settings are cast repros of old settings. The casting makes them look a bit blurry and melted as compared to handmade settings.

There's Van Craeynest. They're pricy, but the quality is spectacular. They use rare old techniques in their current production. Many posters here love them.

 

[1981]

Thank you to everyone that has responded thus far. I really appreciate it. So, i got the specs on the diamond I am considering:

GIA Certified SI-2, J, 1.28
Diameter 7.04 x 6.93
57.8% Depth
55% table
33.5 Crown Angles
Price $5800

The setting I am looking at is $2250 in 14 K White Gold, $2580 in Palladium and $3500 in Platinum.

Does that look like a good diamond? at a good price? Should I go with 14 k Wg, the palladium or the platinum mouting if I go the whitehousebrotheres route?

Also, there is another diamond he brought in for me to look at. It is not GIA certified, but he graded it next to other GIA''s at a SI1, K, 1.53
Diameter 7.32 x 7.21
62.2% depth
46 table
price $6500

I originally like this stone more since it was bigger, but after comparing them and looking at both of them under a loupe, I thought the 1.28 was a prettier diamond. I know you kind of ahave to see them, but what would you do?

Thanks again for your opinions. I will post pics when I have them for sure

 

[oldminer]

Compare both diamonds outside on a sunny day at about 15 to 20 inches from your eyes. You may find the deeper diamond looks more sparkly inder these conditions. The shallower one may leak some light that you did not notice with a loupe examination so close to your eyes.

 

[Upgradable]

What about trying out a Beverley K mounting? I have a BevK from Pearlman''s. The quality is fabulous and Pearlman''s customer service is second to none. The mounting I linked is priced only $1750 in white gold.

 

[1981]

Oldminer,

Is the 1.28 a little too shallow you think? We looked at the 1.28 and the 1.53 in his office under normal office light and then again under a special lamp thing he had on his desk that he said was comparable to "everyday" lighting and the 1.28 just seemed whiter and sparklier. But I''d prefer the bigger diamond for sure.

Upgradable, do you think they could bezel set that mounting? It''s pretty

 

[Loves Vintage]

Just wanted to mention http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv.php?SHAPE=EU in case you were not already aware of Old World Diamonds. They have a very large inventory of old stones that you can use to get an indication of where you''re stone is priced given other stones available in the market place. It is not an exact science, of course, especially when the stones compared may be graded by different labs, but at least gives some indication of pricing for comparison purposes.

 

[1981]

thanks a lot "lovesvintage." From perusing this site, I did stumble upon "old world." They don''t have any GIA certified ones that match my specs, but I do feel like I can get a good idea from there and I feel the one i''m looking at is priced right

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 9/8/2009 3:56:00 PM
Author: oldminer
Don''t take my advice as ''steering clear'' of anyone, but just look, learn and shop until you feel you have the right item. Many people have bought and enjoyed Whitehouse rings. I may be not their best fan, but taken on a case by case basis, I am certain they have much to offer. Just be sure it is for you when you commit.

I really appreciate the tactful way you phrased this, always a pleasure reading how delicately you write your posts.

 

[1981]

Does anyone have an opinion on a 14 ct white gold mounting vs a Palladium vs a platinum mounting? I''ve tried to educate myself via internet research and talking to jewelers but I wanted real opinions. If I should post this stuff on a separate thread, please let me know. I just thought I''d stay with one