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Old Euro looking for input please!

Djb17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
8
Hello, longtime lurker on these forums but as I am finally getting close to buying a antique cut old European diamond for my girlfriend engagement ring I was hoping to get some input from the forum if the diamond look reasonable and does not have any major red flags such as fish eye, crushed ice etc. It is not certified (will get certified prior to buying) but it is 2.7 carat SI1 and I/J color. It is cut quite shallow 9.3m x 4.8m but that is something my girlfriend wants as she wants to maximize the size of it. The price including setting is 19,800 euro.

Any thoughts on price/look? Hoping to get some thoughts from the pros here before I make this big purchase - she really likes the antique look but finding it much harder to find just the right one as they are so rare and harder to get an idea if the price is reasonable. It is the smaller diamond on the left in the picture with two diamonds.
 

Attachments

foxinsox

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
2,830
From that single photo, it's hard to tell for sure but there's a ring of fuzziness around the table that I don't love. The facets around the outside don't look very organised either - there's sort of a snowflake but it's not very clear. The under table facets are half on-half off so you can't tell whether that's going to be very lively or bright as it could be it's tilted or something else.
I feel like for that price, you could do a lot better from Old World Diamonds, Love Affair Diamonds, Jewels by Grace, Parks Fine Group, Ivy And Rose Vintage or from somewhere like Hancock Diamonds in the UK if you want to buy closer to Europe.. and that's without knowing what sort of setting you are looking at.
If you are set on this vendor, can they give you some more pictures and video? Where do they propose sending it for certification?
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,187
Looks like fish eye to me. You GF may need some education about the importance of cut quality so that she can understand why a very shallow diamond like this can/will look lifeless. And then what is the point??
 

natasha-cupcake

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
893
I see a girdle reflection, which is considered a "fish eye" if it's there in most viewing situations. Personally, I don't want to see it in any viewing situation. Spread-y diamonds come with a built-in decrease in performance. I learned this lesson the hard way and I would strongly urge you to reject this diamond and find one that has a more appropriate face up size for it's carat weight. Maximizing size at the expense of performance doesn't make a lot of sense.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
27,507
A bigger diamond that is lifeless is just not pretty. Objectively speaking it just is not. You and your FI are much better off with a smaller diamond that is lively and beautiful and a good performer. You can do much better. We can help. Your budget is good. Don't settle for a dull lifeless diamond.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,187
I mean, at the end of the day we are looking at a picture and you are seeing it in person, and you know your gf's priorities. Inform your eyes by looking at lots of diamonds in person, then make your selection knowing all your criteria and the limitations you face (i.e. location, available inventory, price etc).
 

Lessics

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
176
I also don't recommend the stone judging from the pictures. Where in Europe are you located? I know of a few vendors in Germany and I came across a beautiful at auction that also could be a good opportunity.
But all in all you will probably get the best deal from parksfinegroup (insta). But you will have to wait till he posts the right stone :)
 

Djb17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
8
I also don't recommend the stone judging from the pictures. Where in Europe are you located? I know of a few vendors in Germany and I came across a beautiful at auction that also could be a good opportunity.
But all in all you will probably get the best deal from parksfinegroup (insta). But you will have to wait till he posts the right stone :)
If you have some vendor recommendations in Germany, that would be awesome! We had a lot of trouble finding someone local in Germany as it seems like large engagement rings are not in fashion here.
 

Djb17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
8
From that single photo, it's hard to tell for sure but there's a ring of fuzziness around the table that I don't love. The facets around the outside don't look very organised either - there's sort of a snowflake but it's not very clear. The under table facets are half on-half off so you can't tell whether that's going to be very lively or bright as it could be it's tilted or something else.
I feel like for that price, you could do a lot better from Old World Diamonds, Love Affair Diamonds, Jewels by Grace, Parks Fine Group, Ivy And Rose Vintage or from somewhere like Hancock Diamonds in the UK if you want to buy closer to Europe.. and that's without knowing what sort of setting you are looking at.
If you are set on this vendor, can they give you some more pictures and video? Where do they propose sending it for certification?
Hey, thanks for the detailed response! Here are link to two other videos, are these any better quality?

Link 1
Link 2

Thanks again!
 

Djb17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
8
Hello, longtime lurker on these forums but as I am finally getting close to buying a antique cut old European diamond for my girlfriend engagement ring I was hoping to get some input from the forum if the diamond look reasonable and does not have any major red flags such as fish eye, crushed ice etc. It is not certified (will get certified prior to buying) but it is 2.7 carat SI1 and I/J color. It is cut quite shallow 9.3m x 4.8m but that is something my girlfriend wants as she wants to maximize the size of it. The price including setting is 19,800 euro.

Any thoughts on price/look? Hoping to get some thoughts from the pros here before I make this big purchase - she really likes the antique look but finding it much harder to find just the right one as they are so rare and harder to get an idea if the price is reasonable. It is the smaller diamond on the left in the picture with two diamonds.
A bigger diamond that is lifeless is just not pretty. Objectively speaking it just is not. You and your FI are much better off with a smaller diamond that is lively and beautiful and a good performer. You can do much better. We can help. Your budget is good. Don't settle for a dull lifeless diamond.
Thank you for honest feedback, it is not quite as dull as the picture makes it seem, there is a bit of sparkle to it in the videos I took below :)

Link 1
Link 2
 

Djb17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
8
Looks like fish eye to me. You GF may need some education about the importance of cut quality so that she can understand why a very shallow diamond like this can/will look lifeless. And then what is the point??
She is actually very aware of the trade-off between depth and the sparkle (even if I was not before she told me) and is not looking for a completely flat, lifeless stone but instead one with a nice balance between depth and surface size so she can maximize the size within out budget while also getting a diamond that looks nice. Perhaps I just did not chose one that fully fits her criteria but thought it had a good amount of sparkle in the videos below -

Link 1
Link 2
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
8,652
Well cut diamonds have better edge to edge brightness so they appear larger to the human eye, they will have more fire and sparkle generally than less well cut stones. See the loose stone in Link 2 (the larger of the two) that dead ring in the centre of the diamond is what people are calling 'fish" eye.

The stone in the ring holder or setting the smaller of the two is so flat it's also a deadpan diamond, they have some light reflection going on but they are not optimal cuts for maximum light return.

The smaller of the two is the better one, which I will call the flatty but neither are what would be classed as well cut diamonds. A well cut diamond you should be able to see the flashes of fire across a room, these might be big but they are not giving lots of great fire/sparkle and light return.
 

foxinsox

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
2,830
Hey, thanks for the detailed response! Here are link to two other videos, are these any better quality?

Link 1
Link 2

Thanks again!
They help me say I wouldn't spend 20k in any currency on that stone. I have a shallow OEC myself so I am not discounting it on the stats but on the lack of scintillation and life shown in those videos. Look at how the facets under the table from 6-10 o'clock all stay on with the hand movement and the ones opposite stay dark?
For an appealing sparkle, you want those to turn off and on as the hand is moved. The fisheye (girdle reflection) is more noticeable in the videos too especially in the second video on the loose diamond.
I think the one you're looking at is not a good buy even if it's big.
 

whitewave

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
8,245
Soxfan is selling an antique pear in an amazing setting. It’s on preloved. There are no bad vibes with the ring. I think she wants to switch to a modern cut.
 

Lessics

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
176
Hahn Juwelen in Munich have some Old Cut Stones but you would need to call so he brings them in from the safe. And not sure if they are certified. To be quit honest I would go with a US vendor (parksfinegroup (best prices) loveaffairdiamonds (also good prices as she is trying to get rid of her inventory) or jewelsbygrace and oldwormddiamonds (priciest of them all but large selection) You will get a bigger certified beautiful stone for the same money.

Is your girlfriend open to lower colors? The ring from soxfan has a beautiful diamond just maybe not "large"enough for her.

dkata (PS member) is located in austria and bought her oec from loveaffairdiamonds without seeing it beforehand and she loves it. Maybe go check her thread out.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
8,652
Look on Loupetroop & the for sale section on here, members sell and upgrade their diamonds you will find much better cut stones at good prices on Loupetroop.
 

Djb17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
8
And it is very lovely. OP this is what a good OEC should look like
Thanks for the many very informative posts on the topic foxinsox - I am definitely going to keep looking for a better diamond! The diamond you are selling is gorgeous but I know she will want something just a bit bigger - good luck on selling it thought, whoever gets it will be very lucky!
 

Djb17

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
8
Hahn Juwelen in Munich have some Old Cut Stones but you would need to call so he brings them in from the safe. And not sure if they are certified. To be quit honest I would go with a US vendor (parksfinegroup (best prices) loveaffairdiamonds (also good prices as she is trying to get rid of her inventory) or jewelsbygrace and oldwormddiamonds (priciest of them all but large selection) You will get a bigger certified beautiful stone for the same money.

Is your girlfriend open to lower colors? The ring from soxfan has a beautiful diamond just maybe not "large"enough for her.

dkata (PS member) is located in austria and bought her oec from loveaffairdiamonds without seeing it beforehand and she loves it. Maybe go check her thread out.
Thanks, will check out the US ones you and other users suggested! Thought we would get a "deal" because we are right by Belgium where all the diamonds pass through and wanted to see the diamonds in person but you are definitely right - the US prices seem much better!
 

foxinsox

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
2,830
Thanks for the many very informative posts on the topic foxinsox - I am definitely going to keep looking for a better diamond! The diamond you are selling is gorgeous but I know she will want something just a bit bigger - good luck on selling it thought, whoever gets it will be very lucky!
Oh I'm not selling it, I just think it's lovely. I wish I was in a position to buy it!!
 

soxfan

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
4,320
I just watched the videos, those stones are terrible. They are so flat- the facets do not turn on and off. I KNOW she wants a larger stone, but if it's not a good performer, she won't be happy:( Is she involved in the process- did she see the stones?

I can't promote my own ring that is for sale, but feel free to go to the post in pre-loved- it will link to my Loupetroop listing and there are videos on there- it will give you an idea of what you want to see in a video of a well-performing OEC. Good luck!
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
577
I recommend Parks Fine Group as a source for very well cut antique diamonds with very good prices. We’ve seen a beautiful large and well priced OEC go to a PSer Christie Danielle just recently.


Alex can set any diamond you buy from him, in house, and is an excellent designer and craftsman.

If you do work with him, check the threads here on PS before you communicate with him so you know his communication style which can be somewhat difficult. From what I understand if you get along with him, he can be a very good source for antique diamonds and nice settings.
 
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