Old Cut Lovers...HELP please!!

[Smores84]

My name is Smores, and I am a Pricescope-holic.

Since 2007, I have spent about 1-2 hours EVERYDAY on PS. I didn't even register with PS until 2009. I don't post often only because I don't own many jewels, yet.

I like the way you guys stick together as a community and help each other. So I am hoping that you guys can help me with my search for a diamond.

I went into my local jeweler to pick up my sapphire eternity ring, and the jeweler pulls out this interesting diamond to show me just for fun.

So that's where I got into trouble.

Color: I usually like G-H color, but I was really surprised that I am OK with this tinted stone

History: This was an estimated 2.2ct antique OEC, but my jeweler wanted to make money/increase the resale value, so he sent it off last week to be re-cut into a "H&A" (GASP!! Why would anyone want to recut an OEC?!)

Now, it is a "round brilliant" cut according to EGL.

2.04 ct
Color: Q-R
8.09 x 7.95 x 5.23 mm
VS1
Depth 65.3%
Crown 34.7
Crown 16.5%
Pavillion 42.3
Pavillion 45%
Table 51.2%
Girdle 3.8% thick to very thick

Price: $6,000 (that's quite a big chunk of money!)

1. What do you guys think of the cut? Please give me your HONEST opinion on this stone!

2. I really like the culet on older stones. Do you think that I could ask for the culet to be made slightly bigger? My jeweler wants to sell the diamond immediately, so he will not allow me to have the culet modified before purchase. SO I would have to pay $6k now, then get the culet enlarged later for an extra $200.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, the old cut lovers will be very sick that he recut the stone!!! The second saddest thing is that the measurements it was cut to are not good. Oh, had he just left it alone! A 34.7 crown angle needs a pavilion angle between 40.6 and 41.0. It's still very deep at 65%. This is so sad that he messed up an OEC to make a not so well cut RB. The price is pretty cheap, so certainly it might be worth buying if you really love it. The pictures don't look too bad, but the numbers do not indicate a well cut stone, unfortunately.

But welcome to posting on the forum, and I hope my negative answer doesn't scare you away!

 

[Smores84]

Hello DiamondSeeker,

Thanks so much!! I really appreciate your honesty and expertise

 

[hippi_pixi]

its all a bit odd. to me it doesn't look H & A or OEC but still a bit of both so it doesn't really satisfy either. i would think a culet would look quite odd on a modern diamond. if thats something you're after wouldn't your prefer a true OEC?

also i recently bought an oec with a very small culet and i wanted it to be at least visible to the naked eye so my seller altered it for free. and i don't regret it, i think its fantastic. also i think it was such a small change it didn't affect the carat weight. if yours is 2.04 you'd want to be absolutely sure it didn't go under 2 carats or it will affect the value

i would say have a think about whether you want an OEC or a MRB. and make sure you look at it in different lighting conditions to make sure you ar truely ok with the color. EGL Q/R is a mile away from GIA G/H. and check his return policy.

if you love the stone for exactly what it is then go for it

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It is quite possible that you could send the diamond to be recut again (to someone who would do it right, like Good Old Gold's AVR cutter)...and just the pavilion this time to make it back into an OEC! The table is still small and the crown angle is good, so it really needs so adjusting in the pavilion. The bad thing is, it would likely take it under 2 cts to do this. But I think OEC's look better than round brilliants in those low colors.

 

[Smores84]

Thanks Hippi_pixi,

I really would like a tranny or late OEC's.

I am very confused as to what to make of the cut, because it looks lovely in person.

I nearly fainted when my jeweler told me what he did

 

[Smores84]

This is the sapphire/oxidized 14k eternity that brought me into the jewelery store today. I need to learn to leave immediately after completing my intended business there, rather than lurking around and finding trouble for myself.

 

[gregchang35]

ONly new to OECs, and prefer the antique/ older cuts to the modern ones... I love the QR colour. As for this diamond, i m not a fan... but i have never been into MRB so that is my bias.

However, it depends on what YOU really want. If this diamond sings to you as it is, then why change it. However, if sings to you but you want to tweak it a bit, i think what DS described is something that is worth doing.

I read what you say- that is when i got into trouble hehehehe.. i think that is when most of us gets into trouble- when we see the sparkles!!!! This stone was only shown to you out of interest, right???? As you say, the jeweller wants to get rid of it quickly. He will show everyone that comes through the door, which is a smart marketting tool. the more ppl he shows it to, the better his strike rate. Just simple maths/ marketting. He wants to get rid of it quickly.. hmmm- he probably knows that it is not a good re-cut, as evidenced by DS.

There are a couple of tricky questions that you will need to answer-
1)is this what you are after/want/need or
2)only because your jeweller showed it to you and told you about it that.
3)What is it that you really like about it.
4)what is ti that you dont like...
5)What you dont like, is it worth the $6000+ $200 cutting the culet.

DS has given you some insights into the re-cut. So add that into your decision making.


Thinking YG or RG solitaire setting or an art deco setting with filigree hmmmm.... But i digress.

Oh- like your eternity...
Yes, leave when you can!!! Don't get tempted....

 

[gregchang35]

When i saw the first pic, i thought- wow the kozibe effect is sooo great that is was quite bright! But that was the over head spot lighting!!!!! and secondly, the diamond is a MRB not an antique!!! LOL....

silly me....

 

[Smores84]

Hi Greg,

LOVE your asscher tension!

My hubby is OK with paying the extra $200 for the culet, but he isn't a fan of paying any more than that for a more extensive remodeling

I'm definitely NOT an expert, so I've been google-ing trying to figure out what differentiates a MRB from a transitional??

 

[madelise]

Another PS'er** is selling her 2 ct + transitional QR for just a tad more than $6k. I'd rather you do that with your money than buy this in-between.

I like DS' option of recutting the pavilion. It might end up looking like TwoAnguineHearts' recut OEC-style diamond. But why risk all of that when there's an option out there for purchase?

**updated, since I got the seller wrong. I forgot who's selling it I'm sure another PS'er will remember.


****updated again! AHA!http://diamondbistro.com/category/2...3582/Red-202-ct-Transitional-cut-diamond.html

 

[gregchang35]

Thanx!

Yes, second that option that madelise gave you.

 

[gregchang35]

its kelpie on diamond bistro. i just checked....hehehe nto sure if i can post link

but it doesnt come with a certificate.

 

[madelise]

Thanx!

Yes, second that option that madelise gave you.

Yes, it's just weighing in slightly smaller at 2.02 ct… After your culet recut only, it might end up being roughly the same weight.
Granted, this tranny does not have the ring pop crown, but it faces up at 8.47mm compared to your jeweler's one at 8.02mm. That whole half a mm is very obvious when worn on the finger.

 

[madelise]

its kelpie on diamond bistro. i just checked....hehehe nto sure if i can post link

but it doesnt come with a certificate.

Haha, yeah, I thought it was her, then searched her username for threads and I couldn't find it… I remembered the ad expired, but she relisted again recently so yay, found it. We can link to offsite ads, just the owner themselves can't link

 

[madelise]

Oh, and PS, you totally broke my heart a little bit by telling me a jeweler killed an authentic old cut
but you's crazy, lady! PS'er since 2007, and only a few bit posts? Come chit chat s'more, Smore!

 

[Smores84]

Thanks Madelise!! That is a beautiful stone

Lots to think about.....my rational brain is telling me NO RUN AWAY!, but my eyes are saying Yes please

Please keep the input coming, this is very helpful for me!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The pavilion would have to be recut to restore the fatter facets. You wouldn't add a culet to a modern round brilliant. Singlestone would be another source for the recut. This stone has a better depth and probably a better crown angle than the one on DB. So it has a lot of potential to be recut back into a well cut OEC. I do not have any idea of cost other than what Brian Gavin charges to recut round brilliants and that is $700 for a 2 ct stone. So an OEC recut by GOG or Singlestone could be more or less than that. It could still be a real bargain in the end for a well cut OEC. You can offer him less than what he is asking, too.

 

[GemFever]

I would add another vote for a potential re-cut or touch up. I was just reading Kelpie's thread yesterday, where she had her over-shallow OEC fixed up by Single Stone. You could try something similar, maybe bring this stone closer to a tranny than a classic OEC. I would *not* have the current jeweler add a culet to a modern-looking stone for a whopping $200! Save that money for a better re-polish done by someone who knows about old cuts (like Single Stone, or BGD, or GOG). I'm guessing the stone would have to go below 2ct to really look its best. But for $6K, even slightly below 2ct may be ok, if you love the color.

Here is a link to Kelpie's thread.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/single-stone-re-polish-results.142112/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/single-stone-re-polish-results.142112/[/URL]

 

[Mara]

Actually, I know that it looks more like a RB in the other pics but that 2nd pic down the faceting REALLY reminds me of my 3.33c OEC which is more borderline tranny. The other pics def look like a RB but that 2nd pic, I dunno, the way it looks there, it reminds me of a funky hybrid between an old cut and a RB. I don't dislike it, but I didn't see it in person so I don't know. If it is an option to recut slightly to restore a bit of the older look and cut a tiny culet, I would totally consider it. Otherwise I'd prob pass because depending on price there are prob better deals to be had if you want a truly older cut. So sad they recut it!

 

[Smores84]

Thanks so much DS, Gemfever, & Mara! : )
My fear is that if I pass this up, I won't be able to find one this huge with my tiny budget. I need to work harder on growing my diamond fund!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Interesting!

I suspect this happes more than we know. There are likely a huge number of these hybrids out there.

It looks like all that was done (perhaps) was the lengthen the lower halves. Can the vendor tell you what it looked like before? We should not cry too much if it was really ugly before These recuts could have improved the appearanc and optics considerably. Who knows?

I like the color. I also like the faceting. Looks like an early modern brilliant now. If you saw it in person and you like it... try for a lower price Maybe $5000 or $5500. Then its a great deal. And you could consider a recut... but why if you think it look beautoful now? It would still never be restored to its original status.

And here is why EGL sucks; "H&A"? Ummm. No.

 

[GemFever]

I was browsing some more old cuts threads, and came across this (after someone mentioned it in Antique & Vintage). That stone looks beautiful, maybe the stone you're considering has a similar look?

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thoughts-on-this-vintage-find.138111/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thoughts-on-this-vintage-find.138111/[/URL]

The proportions on that stone are very different from the one you're considering, but the character is similar, I think. Maybe?

 

[Circe]

Interesting!

I suspect this happes more than we know. There are likely a huge number of these hybrids out there.

It looks like all that was done (perhaps) was the lengthen the lower halves. Can the vendor tell you what it looked like before? We should not cry too much if it was really ugly before These recuts could have improved the appearanc and optics considerably. Who knows?

I like the color. I also like the faceting. Looks like an early modern brilliant now. If you saw it in person and you like it... try for a lower price Maybe $5000 or $5500. Then its a great deal. And you could consider a recut... but why if you think it look beautoful now? It would still never be restored to its original status.

And here is why EGL sucks; "H&A"? Ummm. No.

Agree with every word. If you like how it looks *as is* it's worth purchasing - buying it just to take the risk of a recut which will take it under two carats to wind up with who knows what result seems iffy. I'm betting the cutter who did the last job thought likewise - winding up at 2.04 still with the old cut crown implies a definite awareness of weight.

Personally, I actually like how it looks, but mine *is* one of the early modern brilliants/transitional cuts Dreamer references, so I might be biased ....

 

[JulieN]

It doesn't look horrible, hard to tell under those jeweler lights.

 

[Smores84]

Gemfever: I love VIP's ring! The awesome color and pattern...drool..

JulieN: I think that jewelers have magic blinding overhead lights for that reason.

Circe: thanks! Your new honker is fantastic!

Thanks so much Dreamer!! I have spent an embarrassing amount of time gazing at the 0.63 OEC that I purchased from you. That was my biggest diamond purchase so far (excluding my ering that hubby bought), now I am addicted to old cuts!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Old cuts are addictive! Each unique, it is a fun hobby!

If you like the .63 this diamond is very different in faceting. The .63 is more of a classic OEC.

 

[GemFever]

Smores, did you make any decision? Or maybe more pics? Sorry, I'm curious for an update

 

[Deactivated member 42515]

Oh my heart is broken into a million pieces... That poor poor OEC.... It never did anything wrong! Oh no...

 

[Deactivated member 42515]

But I third Kelpie's OEC in preloved. She is an amazing person to do business with! You won't be disappointed!!'