OEC vintage-inspired e-ring CAD feedback

[dropsonde]

Happy New Year PSers!

Some of you may recall my quest to duplicate a vintage OEC engagement ring for my fiancée. The original ring is four-prong and my concern was that it would not be protective enough of the thin girdle of my OEC diamond. So I asked my designer to design a six-prong version inspired by the original ring, which complicated things because the beautiful swoops of the original became difficult to reproduce with the additional prongs that cramped the crown space and removed the symmetry.

I posted CADs of a first draft of the design a few months ago and received many helpful feedback and comments. We went back to the drawing board and made some revisions. I would sincerely appreciate any constructive feedback on the updated CADs.

Please keep in mind that with the change to six-prong I'm not looking for an exact repro of the original ring but am trying to maintain the spirit, and as many of the design elements, of the original design as possible. My designer tells me there will be additional hand-finishing post-casting to create the milgrain (which won't be cast), taper the shank, carve out the channels, etc. We also decided to add the small diamond accents on the base of the crown.

Your thoughts are appreciated and thanks in advance! CADs are followed by photos of the inspiration ring.

 

[Matthews1127]

Beautiful!!!

 

[foxinsox]

I really like this 6-prong version. I would only wonder if the shoulders are perhaps a bit chunky - or would this be the central stone being a different size to the inspiration one? Could they taper more gracefully than the somewhat abrupt way they do in this?
Will you be having tab prongs per the cad or getting them pointed?

 

[dropsonde]

Foxinsox, you're right that the ring and stone sizes are a little different between the inspiration and CAD. The inspiration is a size 6.25 with a 1.6 ct stone while mine is a size 4 with a 2.09 ct. That likely explains the difference in proportions of the two and why the shoulders on mine look thicker. And I think the tapering of the shank will be done via hand-finishing as opposed to cast.

I did debate between ribbon and pointed prongs -- my designer presented me with that option as well -- and went with the ribbons so they would be more protective of the girdle. Would you prefer claw prongs more similar to the inspiration?

 

[foxinsox]

Actually I really like the ribbon ones you've chosen - and extra girdle protection is never a bad thing. I think the inspiration has very narrow tab prongs which are charming too. Pointed claws wouldn't look right with this design I feel looking at both the inspiration and your interpretation.
OH! one thing I did want to ask is what will the accent stones be? Your centre stone is an OEC yes? the inspiration's accents are rose cuts so I wondered if you were going to go with them or get single cuts to match the big flashes of the OEC or something else?

 

[dropsonde]

Thanks for the feedback. Yep, center stone is an OEC. I believe the designer is recommending full cuts for the accent stones because of a feeling that the sparkle in single cuts can be a little flat, and that they’re so small it will be difficult to recognize the difference between single and full cut anyway.

 

[redwood66]

This is a beautiful design! I like full cuts when they are that small.

Will the finished ring have very tiny milgrain around the shank stones or bead milgrain like on the CAD?

 

[dropsonde]

Thanks! It will be the smaller milgrain like the inspiration. The bead milgrain in the CAD is meant to be more of a placeholder since the milgrain will be finished by hand.

 

[redwood66]

Thanks! It will be the smaller milgrain like the inspiration. The bead milgrain in the CAD is meant to be more of a placeholder since the milgrain will be finished by hand.

Good to know because sometimes if you don't ask you end up with what you see. Milgrain is not cast and always hand applied but the large bead type is one of many styles. I don't like it myself but it was applied to one of my first custom rings because I did not ask. Needless to say it went back for tiny milgrain.

It is a beautiful design and I love the tiny stones in the head. I agree with foxinsox on the tab prongs as long as they are small and don't push into the stone too far.

 

[dropsonde]

That’s a good lesson about custom work to share! Thanks. I’m pretty sure the designer and I are on the same page about it but no harm in confirming.

 

[KKJohnson]

I think it looks amazing

 

[dropsonde]

Does anyone have strong feelings either way about adding milgrain to the prongs (just the triangles coming down the side of the basket), around the small accent diamonds in the basket, or both?

 

[JR_YATES]

I really really like this ring! The only thing I think I might consider is tapering the 3 side diamonds a bit as the go down in the channel. I like the channels to come more to a point on these styles. But I would not complain either way.

I hope to see a picture of the finished product.
May I ask who is doing the CAD design for you? They do good work.

 

[redwood66]

Does anyone have strong feelings either way about adding milgrain to the prongs (just the triangles coming down the side of the basket), around the small accent diamonds in the basket, or both?

If your chosen shop is good enough to do tiny work you could add it to the bezels of the stones in the head. This would keep with the milgrain shank. Personally I would not add any to the tab prongs or the sides of them, it will get too busy for my taste.

 

[dropsonde]

I hope to see a picture of the finished product.
May I ask who is doing the CAD design for you? They do good work.

I will be glad to post some shots of the finished ring and can share info about the designer at that time.

If your chosen shop is good enough to do tiny work you could add it to the bezels of the stones in the head. This would keep with the milgrain shank. Personally I would not add any to the tab prongs or the sides of them, it will get too busy for my taste.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[foxinsox]

I’ll add my vote of not milgraining the prongs/basket. You’ve got a lot of texture going on already and some smooth sections will look nice against the textures.
I do wonder about the single cut vs full brilliant cut given you’re putting an OEC in the ring. Single cuts having fewer facets will do bigger flashes, like the OEC. Full brilliant may be more of a modern twinkle. I’m primarily basing this off discussions I’ve read here on full vs single cut melee in VC threads but I do have a single cut band which complements my OEC really nicely compared to another band of (bigger) full brilliants which doesn’t go as well. The single cuts are also really bright and sparkly. I suspect this is a nitpick but given the attention to detail and thought you’re putting into this beautiful ring, I had to mention it.
Also I don’t believe (having stalked your threads!) that you’ve posted a pic of the stone you ended up getting - any chance of a couple of pics??

 

[foxinsox]

Some threads on full vs single cut if you’re interested
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/full-cut-vs-single-cut.152010/
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...size-do-you-prefer-one-over-the-other.126243/
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...u-prefer-single-cut-or-full-cut-melee.197017/

 

[redwood66]

Having just gone through this process with VC I have to say that I may change my perspective on single cuts. But they have to be well cut single cuts. There are many that are not and it can be a turn off to using them, which was probably my issue with them only I didn't know it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I’ve seen many antique rings with tab/ribbon prongs, but there are always 4 prongs that I can recall. I recently had tab prongs done on my own ring. I am familiar with the inspiration ring, too. So I am going to be honest and tell you that I don’t think 6 tab prongs is a good design. Even on the inspiration ring, the tabs are split or notched at the top which might help keep them from looking bulky. I think 8 claw prongs is the best solitaire prong option for very thin girdles. I also think your shoulders are too wide, or else they need to taper narrower going downward.

I don’t mean to sound too critical, but it’s much better to get this right at the cad stage rather than have regrets later.

 

[redwood66]

DS do you think the width on the shoulders is looking wide because of that darned beading CAD work? They stick out all over the place. I kind of wish they would take it off for viewing purposes since its added later anyway. Though you are right the whole shank is wide and not delicate like the inspiration. You are good at this. You need a job.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

DS do you think the width on the shoulders is looking wide because of that darned beading CAD work? They stick out all over the place. I kind of wish they would take it off for viewing purposes since its added later anyway. Though you are right the whole shank is wide and not delicate like the inspiration. You are good at this. You need a job.

Thank you! I guess after seeing a million rings, and especially viewing outstanding rings by a few select vendors, I can fairly well spot inconsistencies in CADs! I think the whole shank is likely too wide, but the part with the diamonds, the shoulders, is definitely too wide or else it needs to taper down to 2mm. That CAD shank looks like it is maybe 3mm. The shoulders need some work for sure. I hope the milgrain would be very fine, and that lower scoop below the diamonds isn't right. But I feel like they need to redo the whole shank and shoulders as well as maybe revising the head.

 

[ericad]

For those curious, I'm the designer of this setting. If you're familiar with my workmanship and execution, you know that the milgrain and pave in the CAD's is just a place holder for hand applied milgrain and hand carved pave seats and prongs, which will be as delicate and flawless as you'd see in a vintage ring. Diamondseeker is familiar with my work, so I think those concerns will be alleviated by me outing myself lol.

While the OP's main inspiration was the vintage Cartier, it's important to note that as we hashed out the design elements, there were other rings we pulled ideas from along the way too - so the CADs are not meant to be a replica of the vintage Cartier - the differences to the design were conscious and intentional - it's more of a mashup of 3 different antique rings.

6 ribbon prongs is edgy for sure, but I think it's going to look pretty slick, because the ribbons will be very low profile and flush to the stone - barely visible, but protecting that girdle like Fort Knox. The shank can be tapered more and made as dainty as the OP wants - there was no specific direction on that, so we used our judgment - remember that CADs are always about 20% heavier because metal will be lost along the way during finishing. My personal preference is for a shank to be no less than 2mm, so that it will endure a lifetime of daily wear. But I've seen settings from popular PS designers with shanks tapering as dainty as 1mm at the base and would caution against going as thin as the vintage Cartier setting when trying to balance daintiness with durability - the two are inversely proportional and I don't want any warped shanks with my name on them! But we could certainly go thinner if that's what the OP wants.

Regarding full versus single cuts, I'm just personally not a fan of single cut melee. I'm happy to use them if it's important to a client, but they are not my favorite and I recommend high quality full cuts. To me, even really nice single cuts just don't look as bright and lively as full cuts. On the hand, I just prefer the constant glittery effect of full cuts versus the flat, flat, flash of single cuts, if that makes sense. But again, this is a personal preference - there's no right or wrong answer, just what appeals to the buyer's eyes.

For scale, here are the CAD's reduced to near actual size (ring size 3.75, so these are probably still bigger than actual size). And this is before losing any metal (let's see if my shrunken attachments work!) .

 

[dropsonde]

I’ll add my vote of not milgraining the prongs/basket. You’ve got a lot of texture going on already and some smooth sections will look nice against the textures.
I do wonder about the single cut vs full brilliant cut given you’re putting an OEC in the ring. Single cuts having fewer facets will do bigger flashes, like the OEC. Full brilliant may be more of a modern twinkle. I’m primarily basing this off discussions I’ve read here on full vs single cut melee in VC threads but I do have a single cut band which complements my OEC really nicely compared to another band of (bigger) full brilliants which doesn’t go as well. The single cuts are also really bright and sparkly. I suspect this is a nitpick but given the attention to detail and thought you’re putting into this beautiful ring, I had to mention it.
Also I don’t believe (having stalked your threads!) that you’ve posted a pic of the stone you ended up getting - any chance of a couple of pics??

Your instincts are right -- I love the details and I've definitely put a lot of thought into this. Maybe too much if you ask Erica! I've enjoyed the journey, even while derailed for several months due to Hurricane Harvey. This forum has been an extremely helpful and kind resource, as has Erica. It will be great to have the finished ring.

So yes, the diamond I ended up with was this 2.04ct OEC K SI1 (eye-clean per Erica). Not exactly ideal OEC specs per seasoned PSers with its larger 51% table but the flowery facet is what did it for me. My fiancée loves flowers -- she's a part-time (and very talented) florist -- and especially daisies. So this was the right diamond for her. Thanks for asking!

 

[ringo865]

Ooh that crown! Swooning!!

 

[redwood66]

Hi Erica. You know I also know your work and am glad to see you jump in. My comment about the shank is only in relation to the size of the head. I think that may be what is throwing me off. The inspiration ring is very thin due to many long years of wear and no one wants to start out that way for sure. OP I am confident Erica will create what you need and want.

 

[ericad]

Hi Erica. You know I also know your work and am glad to see you jump in. My comment about the shank is only in relation to the size of the head. I think that may be what is throwing me off. The inspiration ring is very thin due to many long years of wear and no one wants to start out that way for sure. OP I am confident Erica will create what you need.

I actually read each comment and love all the feedback. As we PSers know, not all jewelers can execute dainty milgrain, etc. so you guys had no way of knowing whether this setting was being made by someone whose work you've seen, versus a random local shop you aren't familiar with. It really does depend on who is making it when it comes to trust. And when a CAD is inflated to the size of one's monitor, it can skew the scale and make everything look huge - hopefully the actual size images help with that.

Can the shank taper more? Yes! Can it be daintier? Definitely! Should it be? That's up to the OP lol!

 

[foxinsox]

Oh be still my heart that OEC is to die for!
The huge crown and the petals under the table (mine has a 50% table too and it makes for the nicest petals). Love it!
I’m super excited to see Erica is making it - her work is gorgeous. You’re in safe hands. Does your fiancée to be know the details or is this all still a surprise? Please keep us posted on the progress and handshots etc - we’d love to see the finished masterpiece.

 

[dropsonde]

I’ve seen many antique rings with tab/ribbon prongs, but there are always 4 prongs that I can recall. I recently had tab prongs done on my own ring. I am familiar with the inspiration ring, too. So I am going to be honest and tell you that I don’t think 6 tab prongs is a good design. Even on the inspiration ring, the tabs are split or notched at the top which might help keep them from looking bulky. I think 8 claw prongs is the best solitaire prong option for very thin girdles. I also think your shoulders are too wide, or else they need to taper narrower going downward.

I don’t mean to sound too critical, but it’s much better to get this right at the cad stage rather than have regrets later.

I appreciate the feedback. Your comments and opinions have been very helpful, not only now but in past threads of mine. You have a great eye! I know you are passionate about an eight-prong or bezel being the best options to protect OECs with thin girdles.

When we deviated from the original four-prong of the inspiration, we played around with a few eight-prong designs and they just didn't come together in a way that still evoked the inspiration. I wanted to keep the design element of the swoops in the basket and there just wasn't enough space to do that with eight prongs. While I've seen many bezel designs I think are pretty wonderful, a bezel was a non-starter with my fiancée -- not her flavor of ice cream.

So this six-prong decision came about from looking at other similar rings as Erica mentioned and using design elements that made sense while still maintaining the spirit of the inspiration. The shoulders issue is a tough one because on our version the diamond is larger and the ring size smaller than the inspiration, which I'm sure throws off the proportions. I also didn't want an aggressive taper of the shoulders/melees like seen on a lot of Victorian-era designs. I've put my trust in Erica to find that right balance for me while keeping the spirit of the inspiration while understanding that things look thicker in the CADs before hand-finishing.

 

[dropsonde]

For those curious, I'm the designer of this setting. If you're familiar with my workmanship and execution, you know that the milgrain and pave in the CAD's is just a place holder for hand applied milgrain and hand carved pave seats and prongs, which will be as delicate and flawless as you'd see in a vintage ring. Diamondseeker is familiar with my work, so I think those concerns will be alleviated by me outing myself lol.

While the OP's main inspiration was the vintage Cartier, it's important to note that as we hashed out the design elements, there were other rings we pulled ideas from along the way too - so the CADs are not meant to be a replica of the vintage Cartier - the differences to the design were conscious and intentional - it's more of a mashup of 3 different antique rings.

6 ribbon prongs is edgy for sure, but I think it's going to look pretty slick, because the ribbons will be very low profile and flush to the stone - barely visible, but protecting that girdle like Fort Knox. The shank can be tapered more and made as dainty as the OP wants - there was no specific direction on that, so we used our judgment - remember that CADs are always about 20% heavier because metal will be lost along the way during finishing. My personal preference is for a shank to be no less than 2mm, so that it will endure a lifetime of daily wear. But I've seen settings from popular PS designers with shanks tapering as dainty as 1mm at the base and would caution against going as thin as the vintage Cartier setting when trying to balance daintiness with durability - the two are inversely proportional and I don't want any warped shanks with my name on them! But we could certainly go thinner if that's what the OP wants.

Regarding full versus single cuts, I'm just personally not a fan of single cut melee. I'm happy to use them if it's important to a client, but they are not my favorite and I recommend high quality full cuts. To me, even really nice single cuts just don't look as bright and lively as full cuts. On the hand, I just prefer the constant glittery effect of full cuts versus the flat, flat, flash of single cuts, if that makes sense. But again, this is a personal preference - there's no right or wrong answer, just what appeals to the buyer's eyes.

For scale, here are the CAD's reduced to near actual size (ring size 3.75, so these are probably still bigger than actual size). And this is before losing any metal (let's see if my shrunken attachments work!) .

Thanks for chiming in, Erica. (: You've done a much better job than I could explaining the thought process behind our design.

For the record Erica was aware and did grant permission for me to post the CADs and ask for feedback and comments. Very gracious of her and much appreciated by me!

 

[dropsonde]

Oh be still my heart that OEC is to die for!
The huge crown and the petals under the table (mine has a 50% table too and it makes for the nicest petals). Love it!
I’m super excited to see Erica is making it - her work is gorgeous. You’re in safe hands. Does your fiancée to be know the details or is this all still a surprise? Please keep us posted on the progress and handshots etc - we’d love to see the finished masterpiece.

Thanks, I'm hoping my fiancée will have the same reaction! I will definitely follow-up with the finished piece. I've discussed some of the details with my fiancée verbally -- big picture stuff like the type of metal, the number of prongs, etc. -- and she has seen (and loved) the inspiration but that's about it. She hasn't seen the CADs or final design details so it will be a surprise to her.