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OEC hunt begins, how to narrow choices? Need help with guidelines.

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by CHRISTY-DANIELLE, Aug 25, 2019.

  1. CHRISTY-DANIELLE
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by CHRISTY-DANIELLE » Aug 25, 2019
    I've started the hunt for the "one". I'm hoping this will be my final ering. I expect this will take some time!
    I know I really want a largish culet and lots of kozibe. Table not too large. I want some warmth, like K or lower. Hoping for about 2.5 +/- ct, to be in the 8.5 to 9mm range. Budget wise, I'm hoping under 20k.
    I've read through tons of oec threads, but still not confident I know what to hunt for.
    So does anyone have ballpark % for table, pavillion, overall depth for a good light return, active flowery petals, no fish eye?
    Like table between 42-50%? What happens at 41?
    Overall depth 60 to 68%? Is 58 too shallow?
    And then the inclusions! Is a crystal bad? Cloud? What is a bruise? Is a feather bad near girdle if I'm planning to bezel the stone?
    I'm crosseyed from searching, narrowed down to only 64 diamonds on OWD...o_O

    I have an AVR moissanite now and could not pinpoint why I'm the oddball that isn't thrilled. Great light return, active petals, bright and firey....but NO open culet, NO kozibe. Not MY dream oec.

    Here are pics of stones I like, most sold, just to show what look I'm hoping for.

    Any advise appreciated!
    20190822_104236.jpg
     
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  2. StephanieLynn
    Ideal_Rock

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    by StephanieLynn » Aug 25, 2019
    FWIW I've had two moissanite rings, one OEC and one elongated antique cushion and they just didn't for it for me, it's like they lacked depth.

    So I totally get it, can't really help you with specs but your dream stone is out there. Have a look at Love Affair Diamonds too, I know folks have bought stones/rings and been very happy with them. Can't wait to see what you get!
     
  3. AV_
    Ideal_Rock

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    by AV_ » Aug 25, 2019
    I have not seen numbers backed by ray tracing for these.

    Eg. I suspect that the Kozibe pattern happens while the ASET cannot be in the red - so there has to be relatively less brighteness & more 'play of light' (facets turning on/off with a little tilt, possibly with one brightest position, or none).

    The SE one among the four looks bright & tame, NW is a hoot with its huge culet & crazy not-symmetry. I'd dream my way through the list!
     
  4. CHRISTY-DANIELLE
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by CHRISTY-DANIELLE » Aug 25, 2019
    .

    Have a look at Love Affair Diamonds too

    She has one that ticks almost all the boxes! BUT I'm not seeing the kozibe like in my examples. I guess I'm trying to figure out the magic combo that makes pronounced kozibe. I'm hoping for a "kozibe monster". This is the LAD, a 2.49 LVS1, great price too...
    20190825_183957.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
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  5. CHRISTY-DANIELLE
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by CHRISTY-DANIELLE » Aug 25, 2019
    @av that bottom right is dreamy! And , of course, sold :(
    Do you think seeking kozibe might mean a stone with compromise, like less brightness?
    I'm curious what would happen if I bought an AVR then had them saw off that pointed culet....lol
     
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  6. StephanieLynn
    Ideal_Rock

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    by StephanieLynn » Aug 25, 2019
    Oh pretty diamond! You know you could always reach out to her and tell her you want a kozibe monster and she might have something that ticks off all the boxes and that one too. You never know, there could be some magical diamond "in the back" somewhere.
     
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  7. AV_
    Ideal_Rock

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    by AV_ » Aug 25, 2019
    I am not sure about that 'compromise', just guessing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  8. CHRISTY-DANIELLE
    Brilliant_Rock

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  9. CHRISTY-DANIELLE
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by CHRISTY-DANIELLE » Aug 25, 2019
    Oh. And this image, but I have no clue how to read that!
    20190825_193110.png
     
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  10. AV_
    Ideal_Rock

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    by AV_ » Aug 25, 2019
    ctd.

    A CER with some Kozibe effect & nearly RED ASET proves me wrong, no real compromise!

    WWW
     
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  11. AV_
    Ideal_Rock

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    by AV_ » Aug 25, 2019
    The ASET of the LAD stone agrees with the video - the upper girdle facets a slightly less bright, no news.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
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  12. StephanieLynn
    Ideal_Rock

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    by StephanieLynn » Aug 25, 2019
    Just watched the video, gorgeous stone :kiss2: Hopefully some better trained eyes will weigh in!
     
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  13. PreRaphaelite
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by PreRaphaelite » Aug 25, 2019
    I must disagree with that author’s statement that the Kozibe is undesirable. I like it, and the paper doesn’t discuss old cuts.
     
  14. CHRISTY-DANIELLE
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by CHRISTY-DANIELLE » Aug 25, 2019
    Thud, that CER cut is perfection! But $$$.
    I emailed LAD. I hesitate to contact OWD, asking for 64 pictures... they said on IG that they are working on videos for every stone right now. Can't wait!
     
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  15. dreamer_dachsie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by dreamer_dachsie » Aug 26, 2019
    You are looking for a diamond that transitions between old mine cuts and the earliest European cuts. It combines the pavilion faceting and proportions of the old miner, but it is round and more precision cut. This will be a round diamond that is on the deeper side (likely over 65%) with a very small table (close to ~40%) and a very high crown. That is the type of diamond that will create this bubbly, kozibe crazy cut you are after. It will have bold flash and lots of colored light return.

    The most recent diamond you posted is *not* the kind of cut you are looking for.
     
    


    


  16. CHRISTY-DANIELLE
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by CHRISTY-DANIELLE » Aug 26, 2019
    @dreamer_dachsie thank you, just the kind of info I need. Too many to weed through when you don't know what stats produce the look you want. I appreciate it!
     
  17. dreamer_dachsie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by dreamer_dachsie » Aug 26, 2019
    But really you should be able to recognize this cut just from pictures. You need to train your eyes. If you post photos of diamonds I can tell you if it fits the bill and I can explain how you can recognize the qualities you are after.

    TGal's center stone is of this make, though hers errs more towards the old mine cut than towards the early European.

    I also wrote more about this bubbly type old cut in my Old Cut Guide post.

    Of the one's you posted initially in the montage, the bottom left is the make you described in words. Possibly also the bottom right, though the angles err more towards early european (less depth, larger table, shorter lower girdle facets).

    I should say this is like the rarest kind of old cut lol Good luck!
     
  18. arkieb1
    Ideal_Rock

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    by arkieb1 » Aug 26, 2019
    I was going to say the same thing, you are after either a roundish shaped old mine cut or a stone between old mine and European cut, the later OECs mostly don't have as much Kozibe, some later old mine cuts still have it. Worth asking Adam at Old World Diamonds what he has, he has a larger inventory that everyone else.

    As Dreamer pointed out if you get an old mine cut or later "between" period stone these tend to be deeper, so in order to get to the mm size you quoted above ie 8.50 to 9.00mm+ you are going to need a stone that is probably more in carat weight because you will lose more of it to depth than a well cut later OEC.

    Going lower in colour should help with pricing....
     
  19. CHRISTY-DANIELLE
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by CHRISTY-DANIELLE » Aug 26, 2019
    Thanks to you guys, I narrowed down what I wanted to see from Adam . Neither has any picture! I asked for pics, and told him what I'm looking for and my budget.
    My 2 top from OWD
    3.07 ct 8.81x8.65. D69T48 NVS2 (EGL US so might be pretty warm...)
    2.65 ct 8.54x8.39 D68T46 MVS2(alsoEGL US)
    I don't know why they can't just have a pic of each stone!:?:

    Leave it to me to be hunting not just a unicorn, but one with a gold horn and blue eyes, lol!
     
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  20. AV_
    Ideal_Rock

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    by AV_ » Aug 26, 2019
    Some search turned in a formula for Kozibe and Fish Eye - www (Pdf, from WTOCD.be ) - which should be crossed with some rules for light return to have the ballpark. I recall from elsewhere (likely GIA criteria for their OEC denomination) that the crown & pavilion angles go from near 40º/40º (the CER is 37º/41º) & to total depths beyond 70%. Light return must change character.

    Intriguingly, a dozen (BN) RBC with tables less than 52% show various foibles for lesser crown angles; the old school exagerations favor others.

    2c
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  21. Rfisher
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Rfisher » Aug 26, 2019
    Congratulations on your hunt!
    With your budget - it not feasible to make a trip to see Adams stock in person? His videos and pictures are great, but I can’t help to think I unknowingly passed on some really great options, for not seeing them irl side by side.

    Years ago he used to. It was entertaining to go thru his stock and see how the reports looked great and the stone was walleye - or vice versa. I miss doing that time splurge.
     
  22. CHRISTY-DANIELLE
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by CHRISTY-DANIELLE » Aug 26, 2019
    Adam said he is sending some videos this AM. Can't wait!
     
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  23. CHRISTY-DANIELLE
    Brilliant_Rock

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  24. D&T
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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  25. Austina
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Austina » Aug 26, 2019
    I would totally trust Adam’s eye. When I visited, he pulled about 20 stones for me to look at, and was totally honest about each stone.
     
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  26. CHRISTY-DANIELLE
    Brilliant_Rock

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  27. LightBright
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  28. D&T
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by D&T » Aug 26, 2019
    :wavey:
    Thank you!!
    The Emerald/Asscher is a K with strong blue fluoro
    Ooh can’t wait to see what Alex says about them!
     
  29. CHRISTY-DANIELLE
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by CHRISTY-DANIELLE » Aug 26, 2019
    Alex Says he won't split them, too hard to get such a larger well matched pair
     
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  30. D&T
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by D&T » Aug 26, 2019
    Aww boo... but he does get so many pretty unique diamonds in and he’s very candid about the diamonds even the ones he sells
     

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