OEC Experts needed

[RosieR]

As a fellow European pricescoper who is hoping to look for her own old cut in the coming months, would this chart not be of use? https://www.pricescope.com/articles/screening_chart_old_european_cut_diamonds

 

[foxinsox]

Because you are in Europe you might have luck going to the cash for gold shops. If you go in and ask nicely, they may have a great deal for you. I've been offered a 3.34ct L/M clean Omc for €7k, which I thought was pretty good! It just takes some legwork.

Oh goodness. Please tell me you bought it and then post some pictures??

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

@Lessics, I'm German and I totally get how frustrating that whole process is. The worst part is that you just don't have a place where you can view a large number of GIA graded old cut stones side by side to determine your colour tolerance. The absence of grading for 90% of the stones makes the purchasing process so much harder. I think a trip to old world diamonds would be wonderful. Even if you don't find your holy grail stone, you'll be so much more educated and confident for future purchases
And I hear you about shipping, duties, and fees.

 

[737liz]

@Dizzie and @foxinsox no I am not a pser with any sense of delayed gratification and don't have those kinds of funds on hand. I magpie away my bling funds on instant gratification a couple hundred bucks at a time.

I will go back and see if he still had it next week and try to take photos so @Lessics can compare offerings. Unless you already bought your omc/oec?

 

[xxxxxx]

@737lizakg No the auctions are in the week of the 18. March. I just stumbled upon another auction cataloge from Paris with a J VS1 2.68 OEC. I love the picture of the stone alot but they dont provide a certificate. But I will contact them tomorrow if they have a certificate.
I'm toying with the idea of flying to Paris for a weekend trip to get a look at the stone. But I'm not sure if that's very rational
So end of story I'm still completely open for anything! Maybe you can give me the shops name and I'll just fly there?

@RosieR thank you for posting that link it gives you some guidelines

 

[737liz]

Any excuse for a weekend in Paris; rational or not, I'd find a way to justify it! I recently unset what I thought was a perfect omc to discover a small chip expertly hidden under the prong, so keep that in mind. Maybe a trip to look at a lot of old cuts in one place, like Kipari said, might be a more productive trip. The Brighton lanes are easy to get to via Gatwick on sleazyjet.

 

[xxxxxx]

Hi ai went to look at the auction diamond and I really liked it. The lady showing me the ring was pretty out off my the color she tried not be obvious but I noticed it

Unfortunatley I wasn't able to get any good pictures so nobody can really give me an opinion. But because I was so pleasantly surprised by how beautiful the stones were in real life - I'm even thinking of bidding for a ring in a paris auction next week which is a J color (in comparison to the n/p color I'm eyeing).

But here is the picture of the N/O diamond

And here a picture of the cushion cut (M color) one everybody advised against. Not really interested but it is estimated to be significantly cheaper than the round cut ring

In my opinion the N Color really isn't ugly. I looked at a E color Brilliant cut and had the feeling it was almost blue (no fluoresence) after looking at the N Color. But the sales lady said twice how she would prefer a smaller higher colored stone... I know it's my decision and I need to pick what I like. Just a little scared because I would have to sell the stone by myself if I decide it's too warm and besides it would be my engagement ring. So that's why I'm thinking of biding for the J colored OEC (that I havent seen) in Paris (I asked for a condition report and they described it nicely).

Maybe I just have to wait it out till the next trip to the US I just can't shake the feeling that the it's much more expensive in the US.

 

[LightBright]

Honestly, I think all three stones you posted look good to me. The M colored cushion is a typical wonky old mine cushion. They are rare. This one has some obvious inclusions. But the overall look is pretty to me. “Ring Concierce” has a similarly cut and color engagement ring that is pretty. https://www.instagram.com/p/BukP99-hBJH/ Put it in the right setting and it will be gorgeous. The lower colored OEC is also very pretty. The J in the gold ring I think has potential. From the profile it looks like a solidly cut OEC, not a dud. Your personal color preference is worth considering prior to buying, but if you are concerned about “cut”, I think any of the stones you posted are reasonable.

Good luck!

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Hi

Maybe I just have to wait it out till the next trip to the US I just can't shake the feeling that the it's much more expensive in the US.

Remember that the estimates are only approximations. The last few jewelry items and loose stones I bid on went for multiple times the estimated price. I don't know which auctioneer you're looking at, but they are usually very good at grading the diamonds and honest about flaws if you ask the right questions.

I've seen some pics of designer pieces that looked OK and when I (thankfully) went to view them before auction, they were quite badly scratched and had engravings that weren't in the description... Just keep this mind...
Also, don't forget to factor in the fees... Many parisian houses take up to 25% + an additional 4.6% for online bidding

 

[xxxxxx]

@LightBright it's interesting that you say it has inclusions because they grad it as a VVS2 - I looked at it with a loupe and it looked more like dirt - but that too would be weird I mean they should have the jewellery all clean for the showing
I do like Ring Concierges ER but especially the size
I actually didn't post a picture of the J Ring - so I would be really interested which you are referring too?

@kipari yes I also have the feeling everybody is honest about flaws and I do ask all the questions I can ask so I gather as much information as possible like on a GIA report
Where those scratches on diamonds?
But you are right it is too risky to bid such a high sum on an item without even looking at it.
I have calculated the 30% auction fee into my budget. But I also have noticed that often things will go for the estimated price minus the auction fee. But of course this time it could be different I'll know more next tuesday

 

[xxxxxx]

@737lizakg would you share the location of the shop you saw the OMC at? I would be very interested!

 

[737liz]

@737lizakg would you share the location of the shop you saw the OMC at? I would be very interested!

In Geneva Switzerland, and it sold already to a cutter who recuts them into MRBs . I went in yesterday and he had nothing good this time. the shop was https://www.or24.ch but he doesn't have anything online yet. He plans to in the coming weeks though. Have you tried the pawnshops in your town yet? Any luck there?

I absolutely love the oec you posted. And I agree that the cushion could be fantastic in the right setting. The modern shank and the many prongs are not helping it shine.

 

[xxxxxx]

@737lizakg thank you for your fast response and sharing the shop and your opinion.

If the round N Stone doesn't materialize I will contact him and tell him he should please show me any nice antique cut before he sells it too a cutter That's so sad. Who want's a M colored mrb anyway?

No unfortunatley not any well priced old cuts. I found a few very overpriced ones

 

[leukolenos]

Hi ai went to look at the auction diamond and I really liked it. The lady showing me the ring was pretty out off my the color she tried not be obvious but I noticed it

Unfortunatley I wasn't able to get any good pictures so nobody can really give me an opinion. But because I was so pleasantly surprised by how beautiful the stones were in real life - I'm even thinking of bidding for a ring in a paris auction next week which is a J color (in comparison to the n/p color I'm eyeing).

But here is the picture of the N/O diamond

And here a picture of the cushion cut (M color) one everybody advised against. Not really interested but it is estimated to be significantly cheaper than the round cut ring

In my opinion the N Color really isn't ugly. I looked at a E color Brilliant cut and had the feeling it was almost blue (no fluoresence) after looking at the N Color. But the sales lady said twice how she would prefer a smaller higher colored stone... I know it's my decision and I need to pick what I like. Just a little scared because I would have to sell the stone by myself if I decide it's too warm and besides it would be my engagement ring. So that's why I'm thinking of biding for the J colored OEC (that I havent seen) in Paris (I asked for a condition report and they described it nicely).

Maybe I just have to wait it out till the next trip to the US I just can't shake the feeling that the it's much more expensive in the US.

I think these both look like good options! The oec looks particularly pretty to me. I’ll be interested to see how things go and what you think about the one in Paris!

 

[737liz]

@Lessics I went to the shops today asking for +/- 2carats just to see what prices were for you (ok fine, for me to just have an excuse!). No luck on affordable sized stones buuut...

Just for kicks if you up your budget to €50k, an antique store guy showed me this 7+ carat k truly eye clean I1 stone .I took a video for fun and thought I'd share.

 

[xxxxxx]

@737lizakg thank you for the video. I love it! The stone looks quite tinted for a K

Why doesn't Munich have such nice old cut stones to visit and dream about

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

[USER=81627]@kipari yes I also have the feeling everybody is honest about flaws and I do ask all the questions I can ask so I gather as much information as possible like on a GIA report
Where those scratches on diamonds?

[/USER]

I was looking at Cartier love pieces and mostly the gold was scratched. But one looked like it had been fished out of the gutter and the diamonds looked damaged in person. A sapphire love ring had one cracked stone (disclosed), but the rest were abraded beyond normal wear (disclosed as "normal wear"). I was quite surprised, since the auctioneers are reputable and would have disclosed upon further inquiry, I think. I was in the room for the auction and stunned and feeling badly for the high bidder, because they went for 1/2 retail plus the fees. NO WAY an adequate price.

 

[xxxxxx]

@kipari I set my maximum bid for a price that I could most likely sell the diamond without a loss

I went back to the auction house and took two videos. In one I love the stones color in the other I'm not a huge fan
Does any body have an opinion on the performance of the diamond? From what you can see in the video?

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think it is very well cut. Nice "flower petal pattern" in the center. Shows some obstruction in the center, but it is most likely due to camera reflection. Did it look nice an active in the center in person? Not overly dark?

 

[xxxxxx]

Just to update this thread: I went to the auction but I lost (or rather decided I was too unsure about the N/O Color and then stopped bidding). Going out of the auction house I felt a slight relieve but when I just now looked at my pinned low colored diamond pictures and videos I kind of regret it because it got sold for a pretty good price
But at least now I have a great excuse to waste more time online browsing for the next diamond

Thank you for everybodys advice and time!

 

[Austina]

Don’t worry @Lessics, if it was meant to be, it would’ve happened. You’ll find your dream diamond, just need to keep looking.

 

[Dizzie]

Just to update this thread: I went to the auction but I lost (or rather decided I was too unsure about the N/O Color and then stopped bidding). Going out of the auction house I felt a slight relieve but when I just now looked at my pinned low colored diamond pictures and videos I kind of regret it because it got sold for a pretty good price
But at least now I have a great excuse to waste more time online browsing for the next diamond

Thank you for everybodys advice and time!

Sorry to hear that, but happy that you felt relieved. Do you plan to bid for the stone in Paris now?

 

[xxxxxx]

Actually at the moment I'm regretting it. I just was insecure about what other people would think of such a "huge yellow" diamond - I personally truly didn't have a big problem with the color it. But it was a great lesson to listen to my gut feeling and not what others may think of me.

The Paris Auction was at the same time as the Auction in Munich so I had to decide which to participate. The other Ring went away for far more than I was willing to pay (the diamond had slight chips - which would have been a liability and extra cost to have it repaired).

So now I'm just waiting and searching for my perfekt diamond. When I first came to the forum I didn't get it when people would say that, but now I'm knee deep in my own diamond search

 

[AV_]

GemConcepts has two diamonds with tempting ASET shots listed among their latest Instagram posts - they are shallow-ish OEC over two carats (one: WWW). No idea what prices are or should be (& I am not complaining of stuff not having a permanent price tag attached - well worth the chore of asking to me).

Else, Blue Nile carries D-J colors - there are few of these findable with the 'culet' filter, or (less reliably) by setting 'cut' to 'Good' (cringe! - but this is more telling of the category than the goods, IHMO below). I am not finding any right now in the size you are after (digressing: www !)

___
PS. I agree that the finish grades (polish & symmetry) are waranted - they reward one kind of beauty - that renounces some posibilities of diamonds for the sake of more deliberate invention... It is nice to see these things laid out side by side! Often, I am on the side of 'mystery' - the old way of discovery by knaving & knaping...

 

[xxxxxx]

@AV_ Thank you for your advice! I'm happy to say that I saw those instagram posts. I would buy right away if the color was M or above!

And thank you for the tip with Blue Nile! Maybe I'll find some time tomorrow to browse their website!

 

[xxxxxx]

So I have seen two OECs since last week.

One was really really bad but it was reflected in the price (about 2000 dollars for 2.36 ct)
I will spare you the pictures it wasn't even worth 10 Dollars.

And yesterday I sourced one at a very small jewellery shop. I was excited for that one and hoping it would be beautiful. And had it been a beauty I would have upped my budget (14k (Euros)) but sadly or thank god it didn't wow me at all. But maybe I'm expecting too much? But this isn't how a beautiful diamond should look on a cloudy day? Or am I wrong? Any opinions greatly appreciated!

Please forgive the crappy video material. I feel so awkward filming!

After this encounter I really see that the auction house stone was a great deal. And how important it is to see the stone in real life. So I have decided to wait till next March or January when I can find time for a trip to the US to the Miami Antique Show and too OWD. Until then I will just keep my eyes open for auctions in Central Europe

 

[Dreamer_D]

That most recent stone had some good things going for it. Nice and chunky. But it looked lazy in the center, which is the most common problem with old cuts. It looked to me like it had very very short pavilion mains (LGFs) and in my experience, that needs a really small table to work, and ideally paired with a high crown. If I'm not mistaken, the table looked medium sized and the crown shallower, which tends to work better with slightly longer LGFs to keep the action under the table lively.

If you ever want to share a video with us again, its most helpful to also show a good close side shot so we can take a gander at the crown height and table size. And if you are able to take some film really close up but holding the stone still so we can see faceting its also helpful!

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

But it looked lazy in the center,

+1

Keeping fingers crossed!!!
I went to an auction this weekend myself and the piece I was eyeing went for a whopping 72 k (plus 30%, estimate was 5-6k).
Fun to look at everything though and great training for the eyes...

 

[xxxxxx]

@dreamer_dachsie Thank you for your advice. It looked quite nice in a normal room without daylight. But somehow it went so gray and dark outside in the cloudy overcast daylight. Thank you also for your tips on taking better quality diamond videos

@kipari that just seems craaazy! Was it such a beautiful stone? The auction I have watched till now pretty much all ended in the upper estimated range. But 6k - 72k seems crazy! Are you also looking for a nice OEC?

Two nights ago I had the idea too ask Jonathan (August Vintage) how much a custom cut avr (l*b diamond - I know this is the wrong forum for these types of diamonds) would cost me. Because with an AVR I don't have to fret about the cut and light return. On the other hand I want to find a beautiful antique stone. But I think the time I will have to spend finding the right one just doesn't make any sense in the long run.

What do you think about this stone from LAD http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/2-49ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-l-vs1/ ?

There is an ASET in the extended pictures and videos link but I'm miserable at understanding them. Is there anything that speaks against this stone?

Hope everybody has a nice weekend!

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

No it was a jewelry piece... Full of old cuts
The lad one has my favorite flowery facet pattern and a dreamy high crown... It's been on my watch list forever... Nice option. I don't know why it hasn't sold yet... Maybe a tad expensive before they discounted it?