OEC and Large culet

[crazycorkey]

Hi guys,

I'm shopping for a diamond for my girls vintage style e-ring. I think I've decided on an old European cut instead of a modern brilliant to stick with ring style as a whole. I think they show less bling and more class.

I looked one the other day and it seemed like where ever I looked the culet was always being reflected the facets. Is this common for OEC? Is it just the shape of that diamond? or are they all like this and just don't show up that way in the photos online.

Here's a link to a diamond that looks similar with the culet reflection:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-62ct-VINTAGE-I-VS2-EGL-USA-CERTIFIED-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-DIAMOND-LOOSE-ENGAGEMENT-/400698461371?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item5d4b7d4cbb

How do you guys feel about the way it does that?

Is $5.5k for an uncerted 1.53ct, VS2, L, a good price? If anyone see's similar sized stones maybe with a little less color please let me know!

 

[yennyfire]

I think that's a fair price IF its really an L VS2, but without a cert., you can't know that.

Here's one I like from Old World Diamonds, though its quite a bit more expensive. With med. fluorescence, it will appear whiter than a K color.

The photo of the stone you posted is fairly typical of an OEC, though that's not the best specimen I've ever seen.

Check this one out:
http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=2012&SHAPE=EU

Good luck!

 

[arkieb1]

Hi guys,

I'm shopping for a diamond for my girls vintage style e-ring. I think I've decided on an old European cut instead of a modern brilliant to stick with ring style as a whole. I think they show less bling and more class.

I looked one the other day and it seemed like where ever I looked the culet was always being reflected the facets. Is this common for OEC? Is it just the shape of that diamond? or are they all like this and just don't show up that way in the photos online.

Here's a link to a diamond that looks similar with the culet reflection:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-62ct-VINTAGE-I-VS2-EGL-USA-CERTIFIED-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-DIAMOND-LOOSE-ENGAGEMENT-/400698461371?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item5d4b7d4cbb

How do you guys feel about the way it does that?

Is $5.5k for an uncerted 1.53ct, VS2, L, a good price? If anyone see's similar sized stones maybe with a little less color please let me know!

I think maybe what you are describing is called the Kozibe effect (look that up) and frequently it is the sign of a well cut stone, I like it personally and the disco ball effect it can have, but many people do not. You should be able to find a large number of OECs without it and if you are after something without a huge culet perhaps a transitional stone (in between a modern cut and an OEC but with chunky faceting) might suit you better.

Here is a stone with it;

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/2-19ct-old-mine-cut-diamond-gia-j-si2.html#.U17mEu0Vq5Q

Have a look at the stones on Grace's site and identify which ones are the most appealing to your eye.

 

[MMtwo]

I think the kozibe effect is beautiful and I like the large culet on that stone, though I am far from expert like many here. Does your girlfriend like old cuts?

 

[anne_h]

I personally like large culets and Kozibe effect. I liked the eBay stone you posted. Well, just from that one pic in the listing. No comment on pricing, I'm out of touch on that.

Anne

 

[ericad]

That's kozibe effect and you typically see it in OMC's, cushions and sometimes in an early OEC (like the ebay stone). I personally love this effect and call it "the confetti factor".

Are you sure that the diamond you saw is an old euro and not an old mine cut? OMC's are beautiful too, but sell at prices lower than OEC's, which could explain both the kozibe, larger culet and the low price tag.

But of course, with an uncerted diamond, the question is whether it's really an L, or is it really an M or perhaps even an O/P? There are great deals to be had out there, for sure, but dealers don't usually leave thousands of dollars on the table - a GIA certed L, VS2 would be priced at well over $7k (Rap is over $8k), so why would the seller be leaving $2k on the table when he/she can simply cert the stone and get more money for it?

Proceed with caution - if you love the diamond, then perhaps make the sale conditional upon a GIA report. That's the only way you'll really know what you have in order to determine if it's fairly priced.

Good luck with your search!

 

[crazycorkey]

Wow. Thanks guys. I never would have figured out its called kozibe.

Is there an easy way to tell an Old Mine Cut from an Old European? Now that I think about it, he might have said that.

I'm unsure if she likes old cuts...probably dangrous, I know. She's never mentioned anything but I don't think she knows there exists all the possiblities in round shapes. From what shes said about not wanting something really flashy and she says she likes the contrast in some stones I've shown her pictures of, I think she'll think its cool. She's been so involved in picking out what style of Art Deco ring I kinda want the vintage diamond to be a surprise.

How do I go about making the sale conditional? I buy it and pay for the certification and if it doesn't match what he says I can return it? I'm out the money for the certification?

 

[MMtwo]

Here's a quick reference on the cuts (pictures on the bottom of this page) https://www.pricescope.com/journal/modern-quest-old-cut-diamonds..

The European cuts are typically rounder and more symmetrical. They ARE flashy in that they will throw colors instead of showing a brilliant white sparkle. Think a prism in the sunlight. Some have a petal effect and some have a cool checkerboard effect and some show that amazing kozibe reflection. If you are sure she likes old deco ring designs, then she would probably enjoy a European cut.

Old mine cuts (see my avatar) are slightly cushioned and often irregular and a little bit of a primitive look. The old antique old mine cuts were ground away by hand...er foot powered machine, before they had diamond saws, and the irregular outline on the girdle is often the native outline from the natural stone. They are a little "wonky" but sort of charming for some of us because of that look. I would be a little more cautious on this cut unless you are sure she likes the look.

It looks like that vendor has a 14 day return policy. Do you have any gemologists nearby that can grade it for you, for a small fee?

 

[arkieb1]

If you look under the dropdown tab up the top right hand side of the tool bar on this page under resources and find "appraisers" this is a list of approved appraisers that you could take it to. I would either take it to an appraiser or send it to GIA so that you can know what you have exactly as vendors usually vastly overestimate the colour higher than it really is and sometimes the clarity of their stock as well...

 

[crazycorkey]

I found a few stones local at different shops, now the problem is one is L graded and the other two are J. One of the J's I swear is just as yellow as the L but its so hard to tell not seeing them all side by side. With them in the shadows or in direct sunlight they all look great. I'm not sure if the one J that looks the best's shop has amazing light or what but inside the stores are where I see the color bad in the other stones.

Uncerted
1.53 VS2 L OMC/OEC 7.20x7.19 $5500
1.38 SI1 J OEC 7.15x7.19 $5825 *favorite
1.30 SI1 J OEC 7.00x7.00 $4000

GIA Certed
1.54 SI1 K OEC 7.23x7.42 $6471
1.50 VS2 K OEC 7.31x7.48 $6850
1.43 VS2 J OEC 7.03x7.44 $6600
1.38 VS2 I OEC 6.87x7.08 $6800

All the certed stone look great (not yellow) but my budget was trying to be $6k. The 1.38 was my favorite although it had a inclusion under the table that made it look scratched in some lights. It even looked a little blue for some reason but who knows could be the light (always my problem). The 1.30 seems like the best deal if it is indeed J. Nothing noticable for inclusions but looked yellower than the 1.38.

I think I need to try and talk the 1.38 stone down a bit and maybe buy it with a return option to compare it side by side with the others and get an apprasal if it still is my favorite. I'll feel bad if I end up returning it though.

Thoughts?

Sorry, I'm sure that whole post is as consfusing as my mind is right now with what to do.