NYC Diamond District - Buyer Beware

[zz00ter]

I visited the Diamond District and all I can say is WOW - there is a lot there.
When you see what is there you will realize that diamonds are in no way rare.
I went to one shop where the store owner was trading ziplock baggies of diamonds
with some guy that was carrying them on his suit pocket

BUT you must know what you are shopping for because it is easy to get taken advantage of there.

One guy told me not to worry about the cut (he was trying to sell me a 1.3 carat GIA - GGG diamond for $5,500

I told him that I did not want a GGG grade diamond and that want something better

So he pulls out a GIA - VVV diamond

This baby was $4,600
and he said it was a fantastic diamond that my GF will love

Here are the specs

1.08 c
J, SI1
table = 59%
depth = 63%
table angle 36%
pavilion angle = 41.2%

It scores an HCA of 5.8 !!! GFFG

he was telling me that AGS certs are useless and I should only look at IGI or GIA

Needless to say that I did not buy anything from this shyster

 

[smilligan]

It depends on your definition of "rare". As a gemstone, diamond rough really isn't all that rare, IMO. Diamond rough that lacks inclusions and carbon/nitrogen is pretty rare, however. Still, price is driven by demand. And demand is driven by perception. People "believe" that diamonds are valuable, so they are. As for the seller, most chain stores have salespeople, not jewelers, speaking with customers. They often lack training or even a significant background in the industry. Some stores don't operate like this, obviously, but a lot do. Just keep that in mind when you shop. A salesperson at a jewelry store is no different than one at a car dealership. They are interested in sales. Again, there are exceptions.

 

[delight]

Thank De Beers for creating the market and that diamonds are worth forking thousands for.

 

[Smith1942]

The world was dark and there was no sparkle. Then DeBeers came along and saved us all!

I jest. Problems with DeBeers, I know.

Seriously, I just wanted to say that gem-quality diamonds which don't shatter when cleaved and which are eyeclean D-I colour etc are reasonably rare. Also, no mineral handles light like a diamond. Diamonds are so dense that when light hits them it slows right down and cracks the colour spectrum, hence all the rainbow fire. White sapphire and white topaz don't do that, and neither does any other rock. People spend so much money on hobbies, expensive cars, clothes, holidays which are here today, gone tomorrow - but a diamond lasts and lasts and can be passed down, being enjoyed and giving as much pleasure hundreds of years after its purchase as the day it was new. So, yes, to me they're worth forking out thousands for, if you've got the spare cash.

My friend has made a lot of money - well into the seven figures - by writing historical fiction for Penguin, and her books have sold in about 25 countries. I wouldn't be surprised if she's made about 5 million dollars in the last decade. If I had her money, I would absolutely splash out 30k on my dream diamond. It would give me immense pleasure forever and then it would give one of my relatives pleasure, and then one of their relatives...and so on. Some people have yachts, exotic pets, big houses, hobbies, fine dining, fast cars. I have my jewellery. "shrugs." Horses for courses.


Appreciate the warning about the diamond district!

 

[heididdl]

Yes the diamond district is an exciting place. But one must know what they are getting into when venturing there. I have been able to get good prices on watches, small diamonds pendants and small diamond studs from someone on the 3rd floor. lol. However that being said what I have learned from this forum is that gain as much information as you can use a reputable online vendor and use Ps help you select the perfect stone setting ie

 

[Smith1942]

Heidi, what's the 3rd floor?

 

[zz00ter]

My experience was with the ground floor guys and it was quite disappointing how totally dishonest they were with the blatant BS that they were feeding me. I would go so far as to say that one guy in particular was almost fraudulently misleading in the interpretation of the specs of the diamond. This guy that I speak of appeared to have all the leftovers that no one else wanted - from what I saw of the GIA certificates.

Maybe if you are a friend of a friend you might get a good deal.
Otherwise - stick to the online shops that have a good reputation.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I've practically "lived" on 47th street for the last 30 years.....it's a savage block.
There's many reasons for this.
The two main ones
1) Ridiculous rents- a tiny store on the block can be $30,000 a month in rent
2) Intense competition: who knows how many booths and stores there are?- well over 100 for sure.

Put these two aspects together and some very unfortunate behaviors seem to become very prevalent.
"You buying?- you selling?" is the chant the hawkers use, all day long.
And they've taken to attacking people even before they get to the block ( like on the other side of Sixth Avenue)
If you're selling, they want to get your gold chain, or Rolex for pennies on the dollar.
If you'e buying, get ready to be shown all sorts of misrepresented diamonds.
EGL is king here- or even less......
I hate all of this.
That said, there are a few honest sellers- but the percentage of good sellers is miniscule at street level.
BTW- upstairs is a totally different world
NYC is one of the world's most active wholesale diamond trading centers.
Although this wholesale market is also located on 47th street- it could not be more disconnected with the practices of downstairs.
$100,000 deals are routinely completed on a handshake- and a signed piece of paper- but it's a person's word that is their bond upstairs in the wholesale market.
Consumers are not welcome in the true wholesale market.

 

[denverappraiser]

Maybe if you are a friend of a friend you might get a good deal.

EVERYBODY is a friend of a friend. Everybody has a guy. It's good to have friends, and it's even good to give them your business, but be wary of this. This is what scoundrels look like too.

 

[zz00ter]

The other thing that was really interesting to learn about were the casting companies that are connected to the "we buy your gold" companies. These companies have a huge inventory of ring designs and they have CAD capabilities to quickly and easily make small changes to the various ring setting designs.

The cost of the setting from these companies is about $25-$30 per gram of ring weight regardless of the design!!! They can cast the design in a day!

When you go to a jewellery store they tell you how much work it takes to make a setting - but in reality it is easy. One of the casting companies (which deals only with the trade) quoted me a price of $225 while a jeweller quoted me a price between $500 and $600 for the setting!

So - be careful and negotiate well!

Also funny - guys came to pick up the smelted gold from previous day purchases. Guess how they were transported - in plain old backpacks - ha ha ha - you could hear the bars clinking inside and you could see how heavy they were. but I guess, make it inconspicuous and stay safe.

 

[denverappraiser]

The other thing that was really interesting to learn about were the casting companies that are connected to the "we buy your gold" companies. These companies have a huge inventory of ring designs and they have CAD capabilities to quickly and easily make small changes to the various ring setting designs.

The cost of the setting from these companies is about $25-$30 per gram of ring weight regardless of the design!!! They can cast the design in a day!

When you go to a jewellery store they tell you how much work it takes to make a setting - but in reality it is easy. One of the casting companies (which deals only with the trade) quoted me a price of $225 while a jeweller quoted me a price between $500 and $600 for the setting!

So - be careful and negotiate well!

Also funny - guys came to pick up the smelted gold from previous day purchases. Guess how they were transported - in plain old backpacks - ha ha ha - you could hear the bars clinking inside and you could see how heavy they were. but I guess, make it inconspicuous and stay safe.

I'm glad you are happy with your purchase but I feel obligated to point out several red flags in your comment.

#1 A company that supposedly only deals with the trade quoted you prices? That means that either they were willing to sell to you, which means that they don't only deal with the trade and they're liars, or they're undermining their own customers by eliminating their ability to charge a markup, which means they're fools. I don't care for either of these options. Do you?

#2 The hard part of most custom and quasi custom jobs is the finishing and setting work and, in many cases, the time and costs associated with dealing the consumer. Anyone charging by the gram for 'finished' work is either engaging in some funny math or they're seriously abbreviating this work. Some jobs don't require much of this and some require quite a lot but summarily dismissing it as irrelevant to the pricing is either not understanding the question or doing the job so cheaply that it doesn't matter. It's like selling race horses by the pound.

#3 Gold is a world commodity. The gold buyers can and do sell at commodity prices and can do so in unlimited quantity and they get paid immediately. that's the guys with the backpacks you're talking about. Cutting the refiner out of the loop saves you, maybe, 5%, and it costs in that now the manufacturer doesn't know exactly what's in his/her alloy. It makes no sense at all that the gold buyer would sell to you for less than they could get from the refinery so that 5% is a top number, not a bottom one. They're selling to you to get a premium, not to give you a discount. The cost of gold is approximately the same for everyone in the world by the way. The issue is labor and more nebulous things like overhead and profit. It's true that some work cheaper than others, sometimes quite a lot cheaper, but it's not a function of their address.

#4 There's nothing unique about 47th street as a location to set up a casting operation. They can, of course, charge whatever they want and offer whatever turnaround time they can but the address of the shop and/or the outlet doesn't have much to do with either of these things. As David mentioned above, these are extremely high rent locations and I would add that NYC labor is more expensive than in most places and taxes are higher. Is that a cheap place to buy stuff? Maybe. But they are actually starting out at a disadvantage. It's not a coincidence that the big manufacturers are moving out of there as fast as they can, assuming they haven't already been gone for years.

 

[kenny]

One of the casting companies (which deals only with the trade) quoted me a price of $225 while a jeweller quoted me a price between $500 and $600 for the setting!

Are you trade?
I don't see your trade banner.

If you are not trade then why did you write, "which deals only with the trade"?

Next, about that $225 vs. $600 …
That's okay.
Are jewelers to work for free?

 

[lambskin]

What about ID Jewelry? I have never heard of them until someone posted here. I was going to recommend them for purchase of some diamond studs. Anybody have any experience, opinions or warnings?