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Normal to see black arrows when wearing a black shirt?

j3rry333

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
16
Hi all,

I just purchased a diamond with the following dimensions:

Total depth: 61.4%
Table: 57%
Pavilion angle: 40.6 degrees
Pavilion depth: 43%
Crown angle: 34.5 degrees
Crown height: 15%
Lower halves: 75%
Star facets: 50%

It's a GIA excellent cut with very good polish and excellent symmetry. I knew when I bought it that there was a slight chance that the stone could exhibit over-obstruction issues if the GIA rounded pavilion and crown angles were actually shallower than reported or if there were a high variance between facets. Now that I have the stone, I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not this is the case.

The stone has beautiful sparkle, shimmer or fire depending on the lighting, and in very low light seems to almost glow in the dark. On close inspection it seems very symmetrical with well-defined arrow shafts and tips.

The thing that worries me is that when I look at it in indirect lighting, such as with my back to a window with shaded sun coming in, I can see the dark arrows pretty clearly, even from a full arm's length away. If I bring the stone up to my face, say about 8-10 inches from eyes, the arrows seem to blend together causing the whole table to look quite a bit darker than the crown. The effect is most noticeable if I wear a black shirt and wear my hair down (it's long and brown). If I wear a lighter shirt and put my hair in a ponytail, the arrows are much harder to see, and look more grayish silver than black.

Also, if I wear a black shirt and tilt the stone slightly toward me, the stone strongly reflects the darkness of my shirt, turning the entire table area black. One thing I find interesting is that the crown area stays quite bright the whole time, so the stone looks like it has a round dark hole in the middle. The effect disappears if I tilt the stone ever so slightly away from me.

Lastly, across many different types of lighting, the table tends to be slightly more dark/contrasty than the crown. I think the crown is picking up light from lots of different angles, so it's much harder to make the facets go dark unless I cup my hand in a circle around the stone and look down on it, in which case I start to see a much more distinct on/off contrast pattern in the crown area.

I have read on PS that the arrows in a well-cut diamond should not look black except in photographs or if you try very hard to obstruct them. I can see the arrows in my diamond pretty easily, especially when wearing dark clothing, even when I'm not specifically looking for them. I can't see all of them at once unless I try, but I can certainly see a flash of maybe two to three dark arrows in the right lighting, or even four to five if I hold the diamond fairly still at a half arm's length. Overall I'd say that the shafts are more noticeable than the tips, so sometimes the diamond the looks a little bit darker in the middle, as though there is a black star whose rays don't quite reach the edges.

What do you think, PS? Does all this sound normal, or should I be concerned? Thanks so much in advance for your help!
 
Do you have a pic? Yes, the posted proportions could be problematic.
 
So I don't have a good camera and my attempts at cell phone pics are looking dismal . . . but I was able to find a thread with pics of another diamond that show pretty accurately the different looks that my diamond can take on in real life: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/3-stone-hearts-and-arrows-ring-from-bgd.175227/

It can look a lot like the center diamond in the first pic if wear a black shirt, angle it perpendicular to my face, and hold it about half an arm's length away. It looks like the second pic if I angle it away from my body slightly at the same distance. The last pic shows what it looks like if I hold it close to my body and angle it toward my black shirt.

I know the diamond in the thread is a BGD and very high quality, so I guess it's good that my diamond looks similar, but I'm wondering if a well-cut diamond should look the same in real life as that diamond does in the pics.

Any thoughts?
 
Here's another example of a look my diamond can take on in real life (let's see if this works - it's my first attempt to post a pic on PS): heartsarrows_0.jpg

ETA: This diamond looks like it has longer lower halves (and thus thinner arrows) than mine, but it shows the contrast in the center of the diamond pretty well.
 
Yay, it worked!

Ok, here's a pic of a diamond that looks darker in the middle than my diamond does. My diamond does NOT look like this:switzerland-hearts-and-arrows-classic-crown.jpg
 
Could anyone with an ideal cut diamond give me insight into what their diamond looks like in different lighting environments? My diamond looks a whole lot like the pictures of well-cut diamonds I see online, but I realize that in order to get that look in pictures, the diamonds are often over-obstructed by a camera lens. If you have taken pictures of your diamond, do you notice that your diamond looks completely different in pictures than in real life, or can it look similar depending on the lighting?
 
If your seeing black arrows at arms length there are some obstruction issues.
But a black shirt is not really a fair test and it sounds like your working at it to see it.
The thing is if you work at it is possible to create a situation that amplifies the effect beyond how it normally shows.
If it is your normal environment that you see it and you wear black a lot and it bugs you then the diamond may not be for you.
 
Thanks, Karl. That's a helpful way of looking at it.

Anyone else (maybe someone with long, dark hair who often wears black :tongue:) have an opinion to throw in? I guess I'm wondering if a slightly deeper pavilion angle would make a big difference, or if I would still see black reflections in the stone due to my dark hair and clothing.
 
Karl_K|1403912132|3702448 said:
If your seeing black arrows at arms length there are some obstruction issues.
But a black shirt is not really a fair test and it sounds like your working at it to see it.
The thing is if you work at it is possible to create a situation that amplifies the effect beyond how it normally shows.
If it is your normal environment that you see it and you wear black a lot and it bugs you then the diamond may not be for you.


Karl nails it as per usual! Also, this effect can be exaggerated with people with lots of dark hair as you mention! A steeper pavilion angle, possibly combined with longer lower girdle facets might help to reduce this effect if the overall cut precision was tight with the proportion averages, if it really bothers you as Karl mentions, maybe a different diamond might be a better choice for you.

How large is your diamond also, did I miss that?
 
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