Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpriced?

[Potato_Loupe]

Hi everyone- I am engagement ring shopping and could use some sage advice on the questions below. Any opinions/suggestions are appreciated!

By way of background here's what I'm looking for:
* Budget: $15k total; was thinking $13-14k stone and $1-2k setting
* Shape: Round Brilliant
* Cut: Excellent / ideal (per the "party line")
* Color: D-F
* Clarity: VS1-VS2 (or SI1 if eye clean)
* Carat: As big as I can get solving for the above
* Setting: Simple platinum solitaire; was thinking something like this

On to the questions:
1. Any tips on where to find something that fits the bill? I'm happy to go in-store (DC area) or online. Honestly I just want to wrap this up so I can get engaged already!
2. Is GOG the go-to online shop? They seem to be popular around here.
3. What's the prevailing PriceScope wisdom on Blue Nile?
4. I visited a local reputable jeweler (high Yelp reviews), and they suggested the two stones shown here, also summarized below. Do these seem a bit overpriced? There are lower priced comps on BN, although I'm aware that this is more complex than it seems.
5. On stone #2 below, is it weird that the GIA report is almost 8 years old?
6. Any suggestions on setting? My initial plan was to go with something prong set like this but am now leaning toward a more simple platinum solitaire like this, on the theory that simpler gives more flexibility for wedding band flashiness.

Local store option 1: 1.01ct / D / VS1 / VG cut / $15,950
GIA Certified 3/28/2011 (report here)
Measurements: 6.47 - 6.62 x 3.93 mm
Finish-Polish/Symmetry: Excellent/Good
Fluoresence: None
Clarity Characteristics: Crystal, Cloud, Feather, Indented Natural
Comments: Additional Clouds Not Shown
Depth: 60.0 %
Table: 58 %
Crown Angle: 33.5°
Crown Height: 14.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.0°
Pavilion Depth: 43.5%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 3.0%
Culet: None

Local store option 2: 1.02 ct / F / VS2 / VG cut / $10,750
GIA Certified 8/07/2006 (report here)
Measurements: 6.41 - 6.50 x 3.90 mm
Finish-Polish/Symmetry: Good/Good
Fluoresence: None
Clarity Characteristics: Cloud, Feather, Indented Natural
Depth: 60.4 %
Table: 61 %
Crown Angle: 36.0°
Crown Height: 14.0%
Pavilion Angle: 40.4°
Pavilion Depth: 42.0%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half : 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet: None

 

[ecf8503]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

The first one scores a 1.0 on the HCA, the second a 1.9 https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

That means they both have potential, but the next step is to get an idealscope image - can your vendor provide that?

I would stick with a vendor that can provide that, and more. GOG is awesome, Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, James Allen, High Performance Diamonds are all good as well.

Stick with ideal cuts, as they will face up whiter and larger than less well cut ones. And consider a G color as well - still plenty white, and can provide a good value since they are not in the elite DEF colorless group.

That said, I would put something like this http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3063754.htm into a setting like this http://www.whiteflash.com/engagemen...-sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-728.htm

or this http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...ls/1.504-e-si2-round-diamond-ags-104064814013 into this http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/e...lassic-truth-solitaire-18k-white-gold-5369w18

 

[teobdl]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

I'm a little surprised that BG diamond is listed as eye clean--the black inclusion seems pretty egregious on the video. That said, if it is, in fact, eye clean then it's a heck of a deal!! 1.5 E BGS for $13.3K is a nice deal (don't forget to ask for the extra PS discount).

 

[Potato_Loupe]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

I'm a little surprised that BG diamond is listed as eye clean--the black inclusion seems pretty egregious on the video. That said, if it is, in fact, eye clean then it's a heck of a deal!! 1.5 E BGS for $13.3K is a nice deal (don't forget to ask for the extra PS discount).

If you'll indulge me, is this the inclusion? http://i.imgur.com/hJBxaqy.png

I actually haven't spotted one before so could use the practice.

 

[qwedsy]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

I would also like to hear your thoughts on question no.5 - whether or not it is suspicious if there's a diamond on sale with an "old" sounding GIA report. Mine is 2 years old, and it's a 0.50ct cushion. Should I be asking why is it that it is still on sale or is this a common thing?

 

[tyty333]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

Lets just say you can do much better on-line.

What you can get on-line similar specs(color/clarity/size)...
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2715445.htm 1.07 D/VS1/$13,300 AGS000
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3063740.htm 1.0 F/VS2/$9200 AGS000
Others...
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.021-f-si1-round-diamond-ags-104067789002

Could you drop down to a G in color? You can get a 1.25. G is still a very white color (in a well cut stone).

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3045749.htm 1.29 G/VS2/$11,300 AGS000
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.295-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104069928006 1.3 G/SI1/$9500

EDIT ---
On the stones you posted the first one would probably be your best bet. Can you get an idealscope for those 2 stones?

 

[tyty333]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

That BGD 1.5 E/SI2 stone would be an excellent buy! It says that it is eye clean and they are pretty picky. Call BDG
tomorrow and talk with them. That stone would be my choice!

 

[Potato_Loupe]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

The first one scores a 1.0 on the HCA, the second a 1.9 https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

That means they both have potential, but the next step is to get an idealscope image - can your vendor provide that?

I would stick with a vendor that can provide that, and more. GOG is awesome, Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, James Allen, High Performance Diamonds are all good as well.

Stick with ideal cuts, as they will face up whiter and larger than less well cut ones. And consider a G color as well - still plenty white, and can provide a good value since they are not in the elite DEF colorless group.

That said, I would put something like this http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3063754.htm into a setting like this http://www.whiteflash.com/engagemen...-sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-728.htm

or this http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...ls/1.504-e-si2-round-diamond-ags-104064814013 into this http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/e...lassic-truth-solitaire-18k-white-gold-5369w18

Many thanks for the feedback; I'm starting to understand why cut matters more than anything else.

I will ask about idealoscope images. Given the two GIA reports, would you say it's plausible that the asking prices are reasonable?

I'll consider G color as well.

Regarding clarity, is "eye clean" an objective standard, or in any case, something that I can rely upon a vendor like BG to sort out for me?

Thanks again!

 

[Potato_Loupe]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

That BGD 1.5 E/SI2 stone would be an excellent buy! It says that it is eye clean and they are pretty picky. Call BDG
tomorrow and talk with them. That stone would be my choice!

Thank you! I have an email out to BGD and will follow up with them tomorrow. Is there anything else you would ask them besides whether or not the stone is actually eye clean?

Also, is it odd that the stone does not have a GIA report, and would you request one before purchasing? I was told that GIA is the gold standard...

 

[teobdl]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

Looking at G is smart. You might be able to go even bigger, but I somewhat doubt being able to get bigger than that E.

Re: eye clean--the standard for "eye clean" differs for different companies. Just define how you want them to evaluate it. Standard is usually something like "no visible inclusions from 8-10 inches away, from the face up position". For an e-ring, I would be more conservative- something like 6 inches away from all angles above parallel in all lighting. Tougher to achieve with many SI2's and SI1's, but certainly not impossible. Just depends on the inclusions.

One of the challenges of that specific inclusion of the BG diamond is that it looks like it's hanging out in a spot that reflects it around the diamond. You can see this pretty clearly in the ASET image--check out the spot in the middle. This is an artifact of the inclusion nearer to the edge. You can also see the artifact in the rotating image--at about 5 o'clock radially out from the center. In fact, from that angle the artifact is more pronounced than the inclusion itself.

The Idealscopes are already shown for both of those images, and they're both perfect. No need for more technical information than what's there.

 

[houserabbitz]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

That BGD 1.5 E/SI2 stone would be an excellent buy! It says that it is eye clean and they are pretty picky. Call BDG
tomorrow and talk with them. That stone would be my choice!

Thank you! I have an email out to BGD and will follow up with them tomorrow. Is there anything else you would ask them besides whether or not the stone is actually eye clean?

Also, is it odd that the stone does not have a GIA report, and would you request one before purchasing? I was told that GIA is the gold standard...

This article is interesting, i.e., your eye clean question.

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what_eye_clean_diamond

 

[TC1987]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

this http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.504-e-si2-round-diamond-ags-104064814013

That E SI2 may be SI2, not I1, but I don't think it would be eyeclean enough to me. Look at the ASET: There's a dark or black inclusion crossing and arrow, and also a reflection of that at the arrowhead at 1:00. Arrows are sometimes white, sometimes fire, and maybe sometimes dark/black. So I think there's definite possibility for that inclusion to really stand out, say in office lighting. Just guessing, of course, based on how my SI2 behaves in that lighting.

 

[Potato_Loupe]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

Given what seems to be a rather visible inclusion I wonder if there's just a typo on the BGD page. (I'll ask!)

I'm also wondering if the artifact(s) could be hidden with the right kind of setting.

 

[Potato_Loupe]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

UPDATE: I caught up with BG regarding the BGS H&A 1.504 E SI2 and the classic truth solitaire setting described above. Their feedback:

* The stone is confirmed eye clean per BG's standard of 8-10" in normal lighting conditions. As shown in the magnified video, there is a dark inclusion (crystals) located towards the outer facet pattern in the stone. You do have to view the stone at a distance less than 6" in order to locate it with the naked eye. The stone faces up exceptionally brilliant and super bright white with the E color.

* Regarding the reflection of the inclusion, the head jeweler confirmed that, due to its location, the stone can be pronged so once set it wouldn't be visible at all, and the setting below is a good candidate. The sales associate (who seems awesome!) mentioned that she had to view it at approx 3" from the eye and twist it and rotate it on it's side nearly to get the reflection to happen.

So, would you go for it? My sense is that there's a good chance this ring will turn out fantastic, although I am still a little nervous about the dark crystals. I do have the stone reserved till the morning. Many thanks for the advice!

 

[tyty333]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

I would go for it (but that's me). Do you think your GF would perfer a smaller but more eye -clean stone or a larger stone with a
prongable inclusion? If she is more of a perfectionist then you might want to go with a cleaner stone. If she likes "big" and isn't
Too concerned with a little personality in the stone then go with the 1.5.

 

[msop04]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

UPDATE: I caught up with BG regarding the BGS H&A 1.504 E SI2 and the classic truth solitaire setting described above. Their feedback:

* The stone is confirmed eye clean per BG's standard of 8-10" in normal lighting conditions. As shown in the magnified video, there is a dark inclusion (crystals) located towards the outer facet pattern in the stone. You do have to view the stone at a distance less than 6" in order to locate it with the naked eye. The stone faces up exceptionally brilliant and super bright white with the E color.

* Regarding the reflection of the inclusion, the head jeweler confirmed that, due to its location, the stone can be pronged so once set it wouldn't be visible at all, and the setting below is a good candidate. The sales associate (who seems awesome!) mentioned that she had to view it at approx 3" from the eye and twist it and rotate it on it's side nearly to get the reflection to happen.

So, would you go for it? My sense is that there's a good chance this ring will turn out fantastic, although I am still a little nervous about the dark crystals. I do have the stone reserved till the morning. Many thanks for the advice!

That stone is beautiful and you totally lucked out with being able to get more for your money in an eye-clean/prongable SI2!! GO FOR IT!!!!!

 

[msop04]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

Meant to say that if it's pronged, no one will ever even know it's there -- that's eye-clean to me!

 

[teobdl]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

Her eyes can focus at 3"?? Must have some mighty powerful eye muscles to have a near point that close. I highly doubt a ruler was used in that measurement. A 3" focusing distance is nearly impossible for anyone except the very young. A 6" near point is common for adults with very good sight, and many people do examine things from about 6-8" away. Also, it's a little weird that she couldn't see the reflection looking straight on--in the video, you can see the reflection from straight on clear as day under the table, and light rays don't all of a sudden stop obeying laws of physics. I really love BGD, but what the SA said just doesn't make sense.

All that aside, this is a toughy. I would probably get it because it sounds so hard to see it... maybe even less so when set. My only worry is that some people don't like to EVER be able to see an inclusion. Do you have a sense of how your gf might react if she notices an inclusion? Would you point it out to her after you offer it to her?

 

[Potato_Loupe]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

In theory, I think my GF would choose higher quality over a larger stone, as she is not into "big" and she does have an eye for detail. However, she's more practical than perfectionist, and so if the inclusion is prongable I think she would choose the 1.5, since it would show off that beautiful cut and color in a simple and feminine setting.

Teobdl, thank you for the healthy skepticism! FYI below is the actual email text from the SA -- I think the 3" remark was just meant to be informal feedback. I will definitely tell my GF about the inclusions; my litmus test will be whether she can notice them. I suspect she'll be fine with them but if they are noticeable, I suppose we could exercise the BG 15-day return policy, or otherwise an upgrade down the road.

* * * * *

Email #1 (responding to my initial inquiry):Thank you so much for submitting your diamond inquiry online at Brian Gavin Diamonds! You've selected our beautiful Brian Gavin Signature H&A 1.504 E SI2. This diamond has been confirmed eye clean per our standards of 8-10 inches in normal lighting conditions. As you can see in the highly magnified video and diamond image online, there is a dark inclusion located towards the outer facet pattern in the stone. You do have to view the stone at a distance less than 6 inches in order to locate it with the naked eye. The stone faces up exceptionally brilliant and super bright white with the E color.

Email #2 (about 30 minutes later, responding to my request to take another look at the reflections/artifacts): Thank you so much for calling in this morning! Per our conversation, I pulled the stone for us to confirm the inclusion for us further. I spoke with our head jeweler and due to it's location he confirmed that it can actually be pronged so once set it wouldn't be visible at all. I honestly had to view it at approx 3 inches from the eye and twist it and rotate it on it's side nearly to get the reflection to happen. I hope this information helps so just give me a call when you're free and we can discuss it further!

 

[UrsTx]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

To answer your question about the lab report, the BG diamond you're looking at has an AGS report which is better than a GIA report - in fact, it's the only lab that's better than GIA. Some people say that AGS grades more strict than GIA so that E color, SI2 stone could even be D color, SI1 on a GIA report. Good luck! I'm sure you'll love the ring! BG has a great reputation.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

To answer your question about the lab report, the BG diamond you're looking at has an AGS report which is better than a GIA report - in fact, it's the only lab that's better than GIA. Some people say that AGS grades more strict than GIA so that E color, SI2 stone could even be D color, SI1 on a GIA report. Good luck! I'm sure you'll love the ring! BG has a great reputation.

Regardless of what some people say, this is not true.

The only advantage of the AGS lab report is the light performance and cut data and the fact that AGS is much stricter with it's highest rating AGS0) that GIA is with it's Excellent.

 

[hearts-arrows_girl]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

The BGD 1.50 will be wonderful. I think you will be very happy with that stone and setting. Be sure to post pics when it arrives, if you choose it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

when you get to my age every stone is "eye clean"...

 

[GreenBling]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

The inclusion seems prominent because it is a still picture and blown up. In real life, it is not easy to spot with all this bling going on, especially when the hand is almost always in motion. If everything else meet your criteria, i would order it to inspect in person.

 

[Potato_Loupe]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

Took the plunge! I'm feeling like a champ. Thank you Pricescope Poobahs!!

Side note: Not to fly off the handle, but it sure would be nice if these online vendors accepted Bitcoin (through a third party like Bitpay that immediately converts them to dollars, of course).

The magnitude of CC fees, wire transfer fees, and general hassle that could be easily avoided is staggering

 

[teobdl]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

LoL bitcoin. You could also do a wire bank transfer.

Did you ask for an additional PS discount? It's 2% off the highest price.

Congrats on the purchase!!! I really think you made the right decision.

 

[Potato_Loupe]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

LoL bitcoin. You could also do a wire bank transfer.

Did you ask for an additional PS discount? It's 2% off the highest price.

Congrats on the purchase!!! I really think you made the right decision.

Thanks! I did get the PS discount. I also did the wire transfer, for a further discount.

However, (1) my bank (Wells Fargo) charged me a $30 fee, (2) I had to physically go to a branch office to do it, an hour-long process, and (3) it still took WF several more hours to get it done. Unbelievable! Bitcoin is going to change all that, no question, and sooner than we think

/rant

Thanks again to everyone for their help!

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: Noob here. Do these engagement ring options look overpri

To answer your question about the lab report, the BG diamond you're looking at has an AGS report which is better than a GIA report - in fact, it's the only lab that's better than GIA. Some people say that AGS grades more strict than GIA so that E color, SI2 stone could even be D color, SI1 on a GIA report. Good luck! I'm sure you'll love the ring! BG has a great reputation.

I think most people actually say that GIA is stricter on color than AGS.