No visible hearts and arrows = poor quality

[Diamondfresh]

Hi all

The 3rd diagram does not show clear "black" hearts and arrows, does it mean that this diamond has light issue or is of low quality?

Would appreciate your advice.

Thank you.

Terence

 

[OoohShiny]

The tutorial in the 'related topics' section above this post might be of interest:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/hearts-and-arrows-diamonds

 

[bmfang]

Nope. It would be because of the particular way it has been photographed. It looks like the camera is looking at it while the stone is sitting on its girdle vertically.

Furthermore, there is no hearts and arrows imaging. While the Idealscope image (#2) can be a substitute for a hearts image, the vendor has not taken a photo of the stone table side down in a H&A scope.

 

[John P]

Furthermore, there is no hearts and arrows imaging. While the Idealscope image (#2) can be a substitute for a hearts image, the vendor has not taken a photo of the stone table side down in a H&A scope.

Small correction: Image #2 was taken in a hearts & arrows viewer, not Ideal-scope.

 

[gm89uk]

Nope. It would be because of the particular way it has been photographed. It looks like the camera is looking at it while the stone is sitting on its girdle vertically.

Furthermore, there is no hearts and arrows imaging. While the Idealscope image (#2) can be a substitute for a hearts image, the vendor has not taken a photo of the stone table side down in a H&A scope.

With 41.6 pavilion I wouldn't expect the mains to be obstructed by the camera even head on (blue/black on an ASET/idealscope) and I would agree that it is not a well cut diamond.

The mains would probably be red on an idealscope with leaking of the LGF creating a ring of leakage under the table.

There are much better diamonds.

 

[John P]

With 41.6 pavilion I wouldn't expect the mains to be obstructed by the camera even head on (blue/black on an ASET/idealscope) ... The mains would probably be red on an idealscope with leaking of the LGF creating a ring of leakage under the table.

Good postulation @gm89uk . It's one of those combinations which draws enough light from <75 degrees that ASET may be more appropriate than ideal-scope for analysis of the actual diamond (these renderings are from theoretically 'perfect' wireframes).



It's an interesting proportions set because GIA rounding places it on a ledge. If the actual proportions are 41.7/33.2 there will be a more distinct ring of leakage, thus a candidate for AGS 5... But presume 41.5 pavilion angle and things go the other way. The leakage ring is largely omitted and the diamond begins drawing nominal obstruction from >75 degrees. Depending on specifics of minor facets and cut consistency (some of which is in evidence above) the resulting light return, overall, could make it a candidate for AGS 2-3.

 

[Diamondfresh]

Was given this additional diagram.

 

[bmfang]

@John Pollard : I stand corrected, and happy to be so.

So we have hearts and arrows images now. It’s not that bad. Fairly symmetrical optically. Not quite the same precision as we see from WF, BGD, CBI and VC. But for a regular GIA XXX, the optical symmetry is not too bad. Unfortunately, the angle combo is not what we’d usually recommend around here. I know we talk about inverse crown-pavilion relationships, but at a 41.6 PA (which could be anywhere from 41.51 to 41.70 degrees rounded across all 8 pavilion angles), we’re really stretching it.

The comp generated IS and ASETs by John P (along with his commentary) give a pretty good indication of potential cut grades. OP, I think you can do better. Give us some 4C characteristics and a budget you are working to and I’m sure that the sleuths here on RockyTalky will be able to help you choose a better performing diamond.

 

[Karl_K]

41.6 is going to have color entrapment not that it is going to show up much on a F color.

 

[lovedogs]

There are better stones out there, OP! we can definitely help you find a better cut.

 

[emb_60]

Nope. It would be because of the particular way it has been photographed. It looks like the camera is looking at it while the stone is sitting on its girdle vertically.

Furthermore, there is no hearts and arrows imaging. While the Idealscope image (#2) can be a substitute for a hearts image, the vendor has not taken a photo of the stone table side down in a H&A scope.

Are you still of this opinion? I have a similar case as in the post. I ordered a diamond showing a rather clear arrow pattern (see picture below) with

Ct. 0.46, Color G, Clarity VS1
Table: 57%
Depth: 61.5%
Pavillon: 40.6
Crown: 35.5

When I looked at it personally under the 10x magnifier the arrows were not visible (just the shape of them, but they were definitely not black). Can it depend on lighting conditions, or did I get a fake video?

Thanks a lot!

 

[emb_60]

41.6 is going to have color entrapment not that it is going to show up much on a F color.

Hi Karl,

what is color entrapment? Does the picture you posted imply that any diamond with, for instance, a 40.6 pavillon angle will have such a clear (and black) arrow structure?

Thanks

 

[lovedogs]

Hi Karl,

what is color entrapment? Does the picture you posted imply that any diamond with, for instance, a 40.6 pavillon angle will have such a clear (and black) arrow structure?

Thanks

Please start a new thread if you have questions about your stone

 

[tyty333]

Yes, please do start a new thread. You dont have the same issue as this poster's diamond. They had a 41.6 pav and you
have a low pav of 4.06.

Color entrapment...on the example Karl posted...look at the color around the edge of the table. you can see the entrapment.
Each picture has the pavilion angle marked on it.

Start a new thread though so you can get help on your stone.