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Newbie needing advice for diamond prices

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phi208

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
26
Hi everyone,

New to the forums but many of my buddies highly recommended this sight and it contains great information! I need some advice on a diamond that I am looking at from a jeweler that I really trust. (He's my good friend's father) So here are the specs:

GIA Cert
1.51ct Round Brilliant Cut
H color
SI1 clarity
Very good cut
Excellent polish
Excellent symmetry
$11500

It is one of the cleanest SI1's I have ever seen, and it is table clean...all of the inclusions are near the edge and can't be found without a loupe! I am just wondering if this price is a good deal, because he is telling me that he's giving me 15 back from the Rappaport price. What do you guys think? I know it's hard without more detailed specs and/or pics, but if you had to take a guess at it what is your opinion?

Thanks so much everyone! :twirl:
 
15% back of RAP means nothing if the stone isn't well cut. Again, rule #1 ...never buy a diamond from a friend... ::) What is the GIA report #?
 
We need the angles or the GIA number. Cut quality affects price greatly. A poorly cut GIA G SI is going to be priced VERY different than one with ideal light performance. EVEN IF THEY ARE BOTH GIA EX.
 
Thanks so much for the reply, I'll call and get the GIA number and post here as soon as I find out! I really appreciate all of your help!
 
Thanks Dancing Fire! May I ask why the #1 rule is to never buy a diamond from a friend? Thanks!
 
phi208|1393445562|3623610 said:
Thanks Dancing Fire! May I ask why the #1 rule is to never buy a diamond from a friend? Thanks!
Click to expand...
b/c 99% of the time it will not be a good deal... ::) my guess?.. this stone is cut too deep... :praise:
 
Hi everyone,

So I was able to get the GIA cert number for this stone, as well as for another stone that I am looking at.

The first stone mentioned above is 1.51ct Round Brilliant, H Color, SI1 and GIA cert: 15142680 for $11,000
The second stone I found is a 1.51ct Round Brilliant, J Color, VS2 and GIA cert: 2156363529 fro $8,800

I compared the two and I seriously cannot tell the difference between the two. The stone will be mounted on a 14k yellow gold band, so I am wondering what your opinions are of these stones and which one (if any) are worth the price my jeweler is asking?

The H color stone only has a very good cut, good polish, and excellent symmetry.
The J color stone is Excellent all the way around. I'm leaning towards the J stone but am wondering if the faint yellow will be more pronounced since I will be mounting on a yellow gold band?

Thanks so much for your help! :twirl:
 
phi208|1393542178|3624290 said:
Hi everyone,

So I was able to get the GIA cert number for this stone, as well as for another stone that I am looking at.

The first stone mentioned above is 1.51ct Round Brilliant, H Color, SI1 and GIA cert: 15142680 for $11,000
The second stone I found is a 1.51ct Round Brilliant, J Color, VS2 and GIA cert: 2156363529 fro $8,800

I compared the two and I seriously cannot tell the difference between the two. The stone will be mounted on a 14k yellow gold band, so I am wondering what your opinions are of these stones and which one (if any) are worth the price my jeweler is asking?

The H color stone only has a very good cut, good polish, and excellent symmetry.
The J color stone is Excellent all the way around. I'm leaning towards the J stone but am wondering if the faint yellow will be more pronounced since I will be mounting on a yellow gold band?

Thanks so much for your help! :twirl:
Click to expand...

The bad news:
So the H certificate number is incorrect. Please check the number and post again.

The J is not a stone I would buy as the depth of 63% makes it small for it's weight and also a poor performer that will look dark under NORMAL lighting conditions (not jewelers lights). It is a a poor value at any price.

Also if you viewed the colors under the jewelers lights, your eyes could have easily been fooled. There are jewelers lights that can make an E and a K look similar.

On the plus side the PRICE the jeweler is offering you for the J is very fair. SO at least that's something. I would not buy the stone. But the jeweler isn't inflating his prices.
 
Thanks so much Gypsy! I appreciate your feedback and for saving me from making a bad purchase. I was really leaving towards that stone because of the price too. I looked up the H stone and it came up for me. Here's the link to that one: http://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=15142680

I have a budget of 10k for the diamond, what is your recommendation as far as specs I should prioritize? I want to put ally money in cut first, then symmetry, polish, clarity, and color last since it's going into a yellow gold ring. Do you think this is the right approach?

Also, what table and depth % should I be looking for? Thanks so much!
 
Just looking at the angles, well, they are borderline. If you really want to hit 1.5 and it is a good deal, then the angles are the edge of acceptable.

But those angles rarely create a 63+ depth, so I plugged the depth percentages into HCA, which gives it a 4.7, which looks a little bit high.

Sooo... by the GIA report, barely acceptable. Try going down to I color.
 
Thanks JulieN! The size isn't too important to me, as long as it's around the 1.4-1.5 range I'm ok with it. I'm just looking for the best I can buy for 10k. With all these factors in play, it's really got my head spinning! That H stone is $11000. Is that a good deal? Oh and can you please explain what you mean by the HCA 4.7? Sorry, this is all very new to me! Thanks!
 
This is the HCA: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

Some people get very excited when they find this; just remember that it is a probability model, which is only as good as its inputs. GIA numbers are very rounded and the HCA is very simplified (takes only 4 numbers). <2 is very high probability of a good looking stone. 2-3 is good probability of a good looking stone. 3-4 is like... say 50/50? 60/40?
 
Oh great, thanks so much!
 
I disagree with Julie. The HCA is pass/fail.

HCA 2 an under is a pass. 2.5-2.1 a maybe (so only vendors with idealscope images). 2.6 and above a fail.

Also it is a rejection tool not an selection tool .

Here's a little information to get you started though:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is. And you need a reliable lab report which means GIA or AGS only. NO EGL or IGI or anything else (HPD in Europe is fine though).
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And with MODERN ROUND BRILLIANTS GIA Ex is not enough.
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut (for round brilliants)
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone. For round brilliants that's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. James Allen, BGD, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool' for round brilliants. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA round brilliant you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 modern round brilliant stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.


:read: :read: :read: :read: :read: :read: I hope you enjoy your time here on Pricescope. We love newbies and helping them learn. So if you ever need something explained to you... just let us know and we'll be happy to help!
 
Thanks so much Gypsy, this is great information!! I appreciate you taking the time to explain everything to me so thoroughly as well! I'm going to keep searching and will check out the links that you posted as well. Much appreciated! :D This is one of the friendliest forum communities I've been on to date, thank you!
 
phi208|1393547707|3624352 said:
Thanks so much Gypsy! I appreciate your feedback and for saving me from making a bad purchase. I was really leaving towards that stone because of the price too. I looked up the H stone and it came up for me. Here's the link to that one: http://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=15142680
Click to expand...
Even before you posted the GIA report. I knew the stone was too deep.. :knockout:
 
You were spot on with that one Dancing Fire! Man, looking for the perfect diamond within budget is much more complicated than I thought!
 
Hey all,

I have another stone that I'd like your opinion on. Here are the specs:

GIA 5166283980
1.50ct
J
VS2
Triple Excellent

60.1% depth, 60% table, 33.5° crown angle, 41° pavilion angle

1.7 on HCA

Price is $9,300....is that worth the money even though it's a J color?

Thanks again!
 
phi208|1393556996|3624465 said:
Hey all,

I have another stone that I'd like your opinion on. Here are the specs:

GIA 5166283980
1.50ct
J
VS2
Triple Excellent

60.1% depth, 60% table, 33.5° crown angle, 41° pavilion angle

1.7 on HCA

Price is $9,300....is that worth the money even though it's a J color?

Thanks again!
Click to expand...


It's offered here by this PS vendor for 8,500. And they offer Idealscope images.

http://www.eternitybyyoni.com/1.50-J-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-GIA-5166283980/ds-1478042/

Same diamond. :wavey:
 
Your friends father isn't doing so good a job. Tell us you budget and we get you a much better deal.
 
Gypsy|1393557515|3624470 said:
It's offered here by this PS vendor for 8,500. And they offer Idealscope images.

http://www.eternitybyyoni.com/1.50-J-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-GIA-5166283980/ds-1478042/

Same diamond. :wavey:
Click to expand...


Oh wow!!! What the heck?? Thanks Gypsy! I didn't even know it was possible for different online retailers to sell the same diamond! I just figured that they all have them in stock and on hand....wow, I'm kind of shocked...looks like I have much to learn hehe. Thank goodness I started my search early! :loopy:
 
AprilBaby|1393571029|3624555 said:
Your friends father isn't doing so good a job. Tell us you budget and we get you a much better deal.
Click to expand...


Thanks AprilBaby, yeah I'm starting to think the same thing. I would definitely appreciate any help you all can provide! Here is my budget and what I'm looking for, thanks in advance!

Budget: No more than $10,000 for the stone
Specs:
Round Brilliant
No less than 1.3ct
I would like to put all my money in CUT. So Ideal/EX for sure
Triple EX would be great, but I'm willing to go down to Very Good Symmetry and Polish
Color is where I can sacrifice the most, because I'm putting it on a yellow gold band. So for color, nothing worse than I color I would say.

I think my biggest difficulty is that now I realize even though GIA is rating their cut as EX, the table and depth % and crown and pavilion angles can still greatly affect the quality of the stone. I used to think that a GIA triple EX stone was the best brilliance/fire, etc...but I'm glad I learned sooner than later! :D

Thanks so much!!
 
Here are some additional options. All the vendor will offer idealscopes and can check the diamonds for you to see if they are eyeclean.


http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/1.50-carat-i-si1-hearts-and-arrows-round-cut-diamond-gid-167547.html Ask if this one is in house or not. There are pictures and idealscopes posted, but they say "sample image" on them. Which seems like a mistake. Anyway, it's underbudget and if those are the correct pics, then it's just gorgeous. And if those aren't, they can get the correct pics for you! :wavey: Plus it has strong blue which will help the color whiten a bit (just ask them to confirm there are no negative effects from it, which is unlikely).

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4583475-1.40-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=4583475&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
 
Thanks so much for the great recommendations! I do have a question, is having strong fluorescence on a stone bad? I always thought it was better to find something with little to no fluorescence, so wanted to make sure. Have a great weekend everyone! :wavey:
 
phi208|1393625526|3624927 said:
Thanks so much for the great recommendations! I do have a question, is having strong fluorescence on a stone bad? I always thought it was better to find something with little to no fluorescence, so wanted to make sure. Have a great weekend everyone! :wavey:
Click to expand...

Read here: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence and here: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/calling-all-florescence-experts.198989/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/calling-all-florescence-experts.198989/[/URL] and [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-just-love-my-wifes-strong-blue-fluorescence.199119/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-just-love-my-wifes-strong-blue-fluorescence.199119/[/URL]

Bottom line: Only a very small percentage of diamonds are adversely affected by it. A quick gemologists exam of the stone in question should be able reveal whether or not that is the case with any specific stone. Otherwise many knowledgeable people prefer it, especially in warmer colors as it can whiten the stone and it looks beautiful in sunlight and under a black light.

But you should read the links, and see the pictures and make up your own mind. :wavey:
 
Thanks again Gypsy, this forum has been invaluable in helping me realize the value I can buy within my budget...these shops on Jeweler's row in Chicago keep telling me they can't get me anything good for a 10k budget and you all have found me amazing diamonds for UNDER budget! I am so thankful for your help! :D
 
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