Newbie looking for some advice again on yellow diamonds ...

[whoisjohngalt]

Looking for some more general help or advice finding a fancy yellow diamond for a ring for my SO. I have been spending a fair amount of time researching this, browsing some sites that sell yellow diamonds, have also gone into some B&M jewellers to view stones with different properties. Recently posted a related q about how yellow diamonds are affected by fluorescence and got some good responses so hoped that maybe a general question would yield some more avenues of finding this type of stone.

I've done what I can to educate myself about the different GIA parameters from their own site, sites like diamdb.com and also other online articles and forums about how to buy a stone. Have seen in person the way different parameters can make a big difference (saw two otherwise similar SI1 vs VVS1 stones recently at a local B&M jeweller and the "sparkle" was dramatically different between the two).

So why this post ?

Essentially, being somewhat frustrated with the logistics of trying to find a stone like this. I don't think I need to rehash the pros/cons of the large brand chains (Tiffanys) vs local B&Ms vs drop-shippers as I would hope people on here would understand compromises of each. Only a minority of B&M places I've contacted in my area have been able to get back to me with things that are like what I want to see ... however my experience at B&M places confirms that some things that look great on paper were underwhelming in person, while things that don't look promising really shine when they are in front of me (excuse the pun). Also wrt drop-shipper style sites I'm not independently wealthy and can't keep putting up the thousands of dollars to ship these diamonds back and forth to be able to see them in person ... I don't live in NYC so can't go to a showroom without dropping a bunch of money for a plane ticket.

Anyway, any advice or resources forum users have would be appreciated.

Here are some parameters I'm looking for:
> 1 ct and realistically less than 1.7 ct for my means, non-round cut, preferably something more elongated
must have GIA or comparable certificate
must have table/depth/ratios close to optimal ranges on diamdb.com for cut
at least VS2 clarity. I know some vendors argue that the average person can't tell the difference to the naked eye with lower clarity stones, and maybe i am biased by the limited number of diamonds I've seen not being a jeweller, but I disagree. The higher clarity rating has definitely improved the appearance of the stones I've seen controlling for other things.
judging from a thread I posted earlier (see here - https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fluorescence-rating-in-yellow-diamonds.228396/), avoiding fluorescence would be preferable if buying online as it seems that there is a risk it will make the diamond look worse

price - I have a range in mind but part of the reason for this post is to get a sense from people on here of what is realistic. I ask because the spread in terms of cost seems enormous depending on the parameters of the diamond. Compare this one on James Allen for example https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di.../oval-cut/1.60-carat-vvs1-clarity-sku-2405074 with this one on Liebish Co http://www.leibish.com/yellow-diamonds/fancy-vivid-yellow-oval-28610

Is it just that this is a hard thing to find because yellow diamonds are rare, and to get the right combination of features is difficult ? If what I'm looking for is unrealistic, I would appreciate hearing that as well.

- John

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Newbie looking for some advice again on yellow diamonds

HI John,
Reading your post a few things stick out.
I can say that based on your parameters, I can see that whatever site you're using for advise is not giving you a complete picture.
First there's no report or cert comparable to GIA when it comes to Fancy colored diamonds- none.

Next- table and depth numbers- there are NO optimal ranges- you can't use table and depth, or polish and symmetry ratings to determine if a diamond is well cut.

IN terms of pricing and comparisons- if one stone is a light yellow and the other is a Vivid yellow, each is priced in a different stratosphere.
The difference in sparkle between a GIA graded VVS and an SI1 has NOTHING to do with the clartiy.

I suggest that you find sites that have a lot of pictures, and information. Then call and speak to the people.
Most people can get a feel for a sellers intentions by speaking with them.
If you can find a company you're comfortable with, they should be able to answer all these questions to your satisfaction.

 

[hobbitfancier55]

Re: Newbie looking for some advice again on yellow diamonds

I do not have much experience with colored diamonds. I have a yellow sapphire in mind for an engagement ring, so I have done more research on that end of the spectrum.

What I would recommend is to start with a budget and then work backwards. Of course this would depend on how tight and restrictive your budget is. From your post I gather that clarity is a more important factor to you. Based on how much budget you have to work with, you may want to consider a smaller, yet higher quality stone.

Has your girlfriend mentioned a specific size she wants? I'd focus more on the actual measurements of the diamond than carat if the visual size is important to you.

My understanding when it comes to colored stones (diamond or not) is that color is first on the scale of importance. The more saturated and vibrant the color is, the higher the price tag. Of course, everyone has their own personal color preference. So if you or your girlfriend prefer a lighter yellow, then that will help with the budget. I'd personally put cut second, as it is what is going to make the stone really sparkle and sing.

 

[doberman]

Re: Newbie looking for some advice again on yellow diamonds

To the best of my knowledge there are no optimal ranges on an "elongated" cut. With regard to the VVS and SI stones you saw, "sparkle" is rarely affected by clarity, unless the stone is full of clouds not shown. The cut is the thing, and in colored stones, it really is all about the intensity of color, which is a serious factor in pricing. Stones are cut in order to maximize their color grade.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Newbie looking for some advice again on yellow diamonds

doberman brings up a good point- elongated stones are more difficult to cut well than stones closer to square proportions.
BUT- there's NO optimal rages regardless of shape.
Here's the issue with "optimal ranges"- restricting by table and depth will exclude the bast candidates in many cases.
Of course there's extremes. If a stone has 85% depth it's going to look small for it's weight.
But it could still be very nice looking- with sparkle and life.
If it's a fancy Vivid Pink diamond, the depth would not make the stone undesirable, in and of itself.

With a yellow, since there's so many more candidates on the market, you'd probably eliminate a 85% depth stone. But if you stop at 69% you could miss the most amazing stone with a 70% depth.

whoisjohngalt- another thing- if you restrict the clarity to VS2 and above, you'll also cull some amazing stones.
There's just so many cases of an SI FCD being possessing a better color, more sparkle, better cut better life, etc, than a VVS of the same color.

 

[pinkjewel]

Re: Newbie looking for some advice again on yellow diamonds

Do you know what shade of yellow she wants? Soft and pastel (i.e. fancy light yellow) or vibrant yellow? If you give us a budget we can look for yellow diamonds that might work-but what you're asking is too broad for us to be of much help.

What I can tell you is throw all cut parameters out the window that you've read for colorless diamonds-they do not apply to FCDs. Now with that said you may not want a really shallow stone (less sparkle), or an overly deep stone (smaller face up size). Yellows will also many times have secondary colors which are not listed by GIA-ie slightly browner, or greener, etc. Can you select a photo of a yellow diamond that you like the color of? And give us a budget range?

 

[Skhii]

Re: Newbie looking for some advice again on yellow diamonds

Fancy-colored diamonds (FCD) are priced by hue, then by color saturation. FCDs are often not purely one color, and minute undertones will also affect pricing. For yellow diamonds, the presence of green or orange secondary tone typically increases the price, while brown decreases it. Color grading is also very subjective and the greater the saturation, the wider the grading scale becomes. Also, FCDs are graded face up, so the side of the diamond may not look the same color as the top due to cutting.

Colored stones are usually on the deep side because they are cut to enhance color (often at the cost of brilliance). Cutters aim to have light bounce around inside the diamond rather than directly reflect it back towards your eyes, which is why many FCDs are duds. I would not shop with the mindset that certain measurements are required other than the wearer's desired face-up measurement. Shallow or deep diamonds don't necessarily sparkle less. You need to look at each diamond on a case by case basis, especially in fancy shapes.

Since this diamond is for your SO, I recommend getting her opinion on all the options you are considering because she may be able to see different color nuances than you, and color preference is very personal. When looking at photos and videos, keep in mind that slight color shift can occur for different camera equipment, and different monitors (yours and vendor) can show slight color differences unless they are calibrated. If the vendor shows you photos that contain white/gray color, you might be able to do a rough color correction and eliminate any significant red/blue shift. Like always, the best is to see a diamond in person, which is especially important for colored diamonds. Make sure the vendor has a great return policy in the event the color ends up different from your SO's expectations once she sees it in person.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

Re: Newbie looking for some advice again on yellow diamonds

That would be great, pinkjewel. My understanding is that she likes the yellows on the paler side of things, a warmer color, as opposed to some of the more "electric" or green-yellows, which might mean a bit of brown in it. Definitely not an intense yellow. As long as it is noticeably yellow and not just a "tinted" white stone it would be fine. Price range for the diamond- I would like to keep it around $7k max, preferably under of course .

I really appreciate everyone's help, this is turning out to be more complicated than I thought it would be!

 

[Vogue]

Re: Newbie looking for some advice again on yellow diamonds

If she wants a paler yellow and cares more about size, then I don't see what's wrong with the James Allen stone you linked. Though maybe others can see a problem with it that I'm missing.

This one is a little more saturated for a Fancy Light and seems like a good price for being a 1 ct VS1, but there's medium fluorescence, so that might affect your decision: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...adiant-cut/1.00-carat-vs1-clarity-sku-2337522

If clarity trumps all, then here's an IF Fancy Light Yellow at Leibish, no fluorescence and within your size range and budget: http://www.leibish.com/yellow-diamonds/fancy-light-yellow-cushion-26951

 

[smitcompton]

Re: Newbie looking for some advice again on yellow diamonds

Hi,

I am going to echo that the yellow oval diamond you linked looked very nice to me. It had no bow tie , price was good and only had the blue florescence for a negative. Have the gemologist look at the stone for you, and if he says it looks good, have alook-see by mail. It looks very nice to me.

Annette