New To Forum - Searching for EC

[lincoln0471]

Hi,

Similar to a few others who have posted here, I, too, am searching for an EC for a ring. I am not in a hurry. I have little to no diamond knowledge yet, but I am using this forum to educate myself about selection criteria. My first question covers the broad topic of shopping online versus real-site store front. How does one go about selecting a diamond online? I read the various posts of potential buyers/respondants and it seems that is is common practice for what appears to be different vendors such as WF, ROC that peruse for the buyer. What I want to know is how does this work? Do I call, for example, vendor XYZ to get a contact representative and tell him/her what I am looking for and they start to cull potentials for me? Do they send me photos and specs? Am I buying a diamond without seeing it in person? Are there posters on this forum that work for the vendors? When and to whom do I reveal how much I am willing to spend? Should I just lay out all my criteria such as budget, etc. right here and hope that many of you will jump in with advice?

I would appreciate advice on how to proceed.

 

[bgray]

First I would read about fancy cuts up above under knowledge. Get an idea of the ratio you want: Ie 1.5, 1.3 etc (the shape of EC-longer or boxier). Then do some searching by size up above and see how it matches your budget. Keep in mind step cut stones should be very clean. Usually vs2 or better for clarity and can show color so may prefer to stay above H in color. Once you have an better sense of all this then you might post your specs for advice and or reach out to vendors.

 

[lincoln0471]

Thank you for your reply. Here is my starting point "wish list" criteria...of course subject to change as I consider arguments on this forum pro and con for bumping up/down on color/clarity etc. My preferential order of importance is equally color, ratio, and clarity first. The size of the stone is slightly secondary as I am not sure it really matters .?? carat to sacrifice color and clarity. I am fairly familiar with color, clarity, and ratio. I am familiar with importance of girdle. I am unfamilair with the importance of table, depth, and crown height dimensions. ..does this pertain to polish and symmetry? and I haven''t seen any "windmills". I know which diamond I prefer when I see several compared side to side, but I am overwhelmed as to how to begin to whittle down candidates when there seem to be so many from which to choose. I could do this with limited selection at store site, but then I am limited as to best value. Since I am spending quite a lot on this, I want to be confident in my purchase.

Emerald Cut
Color: G
Clarity: VVS1
LW Ratio: 1.3-1.50 - I desire neither boxy nor lengthy shape...I used the ratio link to dial to preferred shape. Ratio of 1.37-1.40 looked best to me.
Carat: 3 +
Budget: $50k

 

[bgray]

Date: 1/19/2010 1:24:05 PM
Author: lincoln0471
Thank you for your reply. Here is my starting point ''wish list'' criteria...of course subject to change as I consider arguments on this forum pro and con for bumping up/down on color/clarity etc. My preferential order of importance is equally color, ratio, and clarity first. The size of the stone is slightly secondary as I am not sure it really matters .?? carat to sacrifice color and clarity. I am fairly familiar with color, clarity, and ratio. I am familiar with importance of girdle. I am unfamilair with the importance of table, depth, and crown height dimensions. ..does this pertain to polish and symmetry? and I haven''t seen any ''windmills''. I know which diamond I prefer when I see several compared side to side, but I am overwhelmed as to how to begin to whittle down candidates when there seem to be so many from which to choose. I could do this with limited selection at store site, but then I am limited as to best value. Since I am spending quite a lot on this, I want to be confident in my purchase.


Emerald Cut

Color: G

Clarity: VVS1

LW Ratio: 1.3-1.50 - I desire neither boxy nor lengthy shape...I used the ratio link to dial to preferred shape. Ratio of 1.37-1.40 looked best to me.

Carat: 3 +

Budget: $50k

okay-you know a fair amount. polish and symmetry are less defining with fancies. I have many stones --two EC''s and one is Excellent, VG sym and polish and one is Good/Good and there is no visible difference. In fact the stone with G/G is so much better cut that its a far more attractive stone. Some rules of thumb include the following: depth should be a greater number than the table. The reason is that usually that results in better cut stone with a decent crown height. crown is too low and the stone can be flat and glassy. a higher crown is more prismatic--a minimum of 10% crown is a good rule. higher than 14 can be beautiful but alters the look of the stone and you lose carat weight on top. (eye of the beholder). I must say that vvs1 is probably overkill but thats your call. it adds hugely to the price. please dont rule out a stone based on clarity or you may really miss out on some. let me do some looking...

 

[bgray]

heres one....that looks promising

3.01 G VS1 66.7% 60% GIA stk no vg ex 9.41-7.24x4.83 $11697 $35208*S Whiteflash

 

[bgray]

another but look what vvs1 does to the price


3.11 G VVS1 66% 65% GIA med-sl thk no ex ex no 9.62x7.42x4.90 $20168 $62722SF Blue Nile

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/19/2010 11:53:59 AM
Author:lincoln0471
Hi,

Similar to a few others who have posted here, I, too, am searching for an EC for a ring. I am not in a hurry. I have little to no diamond knowledge yet, but I am using this forum to educate myself about selection criteria. My first question covers the broad topic of shopping online versus real-site store front. How does one go about selecting a diamond online? I read the various posts of potential buyers/respondants and it seems that is is common practice for what appears to be different vendors such as WF, ROC that peruse for the buyer. What I want to know is how does this work? Do I call, for example, vendor XYZ to get a contact representative and tell him/her what I am looking for and they start to cull potentials for me? Do they send me photos and specs? Yes, this is one way to approach it certainly and it is best if you work with a vendor who either has a suitable diamond as part of their inventory or can call one in and perform the analysis needed such as getting detailed photographs, ASET images and run a Sarin scan to get the crown height if possible.

Am I buying a diamond without seeing it in person? Are there posters on this forum that work for the vendors? The majority of posters are consumer enthusiasts, we do have vendor posters here but they are easily identifiable by their signatures. Also it is required of these vendors to refrain from commenting on each others stones if one is up for discussion so they remain impartial.

When and to whom do I reveal how much I am willing to spend? Should I just lay out all my criteria such as budget, etc. right here and hope that many of you will jump in with advice?

I would contact a vendor or vendors you would like to work with and give them your budget and requirements. It might take a little time to locate a suitable EC in your size so seeing what a vendor can source for you could be very worthwhile, they might be able to find the right diamond from the virtual listing for you, call it in for evaluation so you know exactly what you are buying.

Also here are some basic guidelines you can use when searching for an EC, although if you find one you love which doesn't quite match up that is fine, your own eyes are the ultimate judge.

depth - 70% or less
table - 65% or less
crown height - 10% or higher

Then the rest comes down to images to judge light return and patterning.

Bgray has offered excellent advice concerning some other aspects!

I would appreciate advice on how to proceed.

Welcome Lincoln - thoughts are above.

I had a look for you and found the diamonds below while trying to keep to your preferred length/ width ratio as possible, you would need to request an ASET image from James Allen if interested and see if they can get the crown height for you. Also it would be good if Karl K could offer his advice on any selections if he is able.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Emerald-Diamond-1174879.asp

This one is interesting, it has a relatively small table and there is the possibility it might be a fiery stone if the crown height is good and the ASET image and patterning check out,

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Premium-Cut-Emerald-Diamond-1000222.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Emerald-Diamond-1037247.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Emerald-Diamond-1164270.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Emerald-Diamond-1164270.asp

 

[lincoln0471]

Yes I can see that going VS1 to VVS1 increases price significantly, but isn''t "desirability / quality" the reason for that increase? I suppose the question for me is would VS1 be acceptable. This is where I would have to see it in person. This is why I am flummoxed about shopping online. I want a diamond that is very clean to the eye...esp with Emerald cut. Thank you for your response and please continue to share your knowledge. I appreciate the crash course.

Can you, or others elaborate on the crown height? I don''t know how to calculate that. Is it using the depth figure?

My problem is that I understand color, clarity, carat, and am beginning to understand the desirable parameters for table and depth, but I do not understand the subtle nuances of things like crown height. I have read that cut is so important, and I am trying to understand how it all comes together to equal that wow diamond.

 

[lincoln0471]

Wow, the D colors (last 2) are beautiful. I will have to keep looking at these several times tonight to digest. Will post tomorrow. Thank you everyone.

 

[marcy]

I love the two D''s as well. They are gorgeous.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/19/2010 8:46:40 PM
Author: lincoln0471
Yes I can see that going VS1 to VVS1 increases price significantly, but isn't 'desirability / quality' the reason for that increase? I suppose the question for me is would VS1 be acceptable. This is where I would have to see it in person. This is why I am flummoxed about shopping online. I want a diamond that is very clean to the eye...esp with Emerald cut. Thank you for your response and please continue to share your knowledge. I appreciate the crash course.

Can you, or others elaborate on the crown height? I don't know how to calculate that. Is it using the depth figure?

My problem is that I understand color, clarity, carat, and am beginning to understand the desirable parameters for table and depth, but I do not understand the subtle nuances of things like crown height. I have read that cut is so important, and I am trying to understand how it all comes together to equal that wow diamond.

A Sarin scan is the best way to obtain that value, trying to compute it with other methods isn't that accurate unfortunately. Basically a good crown height can enhance the fire or coloured light of a diamond if the diamond is cut well overall and the stone has a small or complimentary table size ( percentage less than the depth). Conversely, if the table is large, the crown height is often low so you get less fire and the stone can look glassy.

Really the basic info I posted above can be used as an initial screening, then it has to come down to images. Various proportion combos can result in a good EC if the overall cut precision is good and the patterning is right, thats why images are so important as these are the only way to see how well it all works together.

As to clarity, as Bgray says EC's often need higher clarity as they can show inclusions more easily, I would suggest VS2 and higher. But as to which grade you end up with depends on personal taste, budget and the other desirable attributes and beauty of the diamond.

 

[tyty333]

Date: 1/19/2010 8:46:40 PM
Author: lincoln0471
Yes I can see that going VS1 to VVS1 increases price significantly, but isn''t ''desirability / quality'' the reason for that increase? I suppose the question for me is would VS1 be acceptable. This is where I would have to see it in person. This is why I am flummoxed about shopping online. I want a diamond that is very clean to the eye...esp with Emerald cut. Thank you for your response and please continue to share your knowledge. I appreciate the crash course.

Can you, or others elaborate on the crown height? I don''t know how to calculate that. Is it using the depth figure?

My problem is that I understand color, clarity, carat, and am beginning to understand the desirable parameters for table and depth, but I do not understand the subtle nuances of things like crown height. I have read that cut is so important, and I am trying to understand how it all comes together to equal that wow diamond.

This is where a trusted vendor comes into play. They can look at the stone and tell you if they see anything or whether it is completely
eye-clean. It does not benefit them to send you a stone that has visible flaws when you specifically ask for it to be completely eye-clean.
Make sure you have the same definition of eye-clean...IMO for an EC is should be see nothing at all from any distance and nothing from
the sides either (this is what I would want if I was spending that kind of money).