New Sapphire RHR Project --> Need Help!!

[CaliSun]

Hi there

First let me just say that never in a million years would I have a MWM custom Flame with a BGD stone and matching MWM band if it weren't for all of you - -

So, now that I am hoping to have a RHR soon, I am coming to you all for help once again. A bit from now, I hope to be wowed with the outcome!!

*Here's what I know:
Color/clarity: I would like to find a deep blue sapphire, lively, vivid and sparkly with no secondary color or extinction. Eye clean or better.
Cut: My preferance is a cushion but I am open to a round. For a cushion, I'm hoping to find a more squarish stone, as opposed to rectangular.
Treatments: Heated okay, but no other treatments. Natural stone would be a really nice find, but I'm not going to pass up great color/cut if it's heated.

*Here's what I'm trying to figure out:
Size: I don't want this new ring to look too "Housewives" or fakey, also, I don't want it to overshadow my ER. My ER is 1.25ct. So, maybe 4.5-5.5 mm ?

*Here's who I've reached out to:
Daniel Stair, Richard Homer and Jeff White
I like that they have very well cut stones, and I am intrigued by Richard Homer's unique concave cut. I've checked their current inventories and haven't found a close enough match, so I messaged them to see if they expect anything as described above.
Brian Gavin and Lesley
I respect their quality settings and custom work, so I did some preliminary investigating

*Here's where I need help!!
>I am thinking of a bezel halo setting. (it will be an everyday ring, and I'm pretty hard on my hands..) Is that to ER and not very RHR? Will that setting not allow the light to get to the stone well?
>What should I expect to spend on a stone of this size from one of these cutters?
>Is that a good size for a RHR?
>Any other words of wisdom that come to mind?

Thanks in advance - I appreciate it, truly!

 

[Indylady]

Perfect timing!

I've been doing my homework for a similar piece..a stunning classic RHR. Have you every seen the Tiffany Legacy? Is that your inspiration?

What should you expect to pay?

Its going to depend.

So, 4.5-5.5 mm? In all honesty--I'd err to the side of 5.5mm if this is going to be your dream RHR. I love delicate jewelry, but..a halo on a 4.5mm stone might have the capacity to visually make it seem even smaller than that. Imagine a small picture with a thick frame. If you have a good jeweler working for you, of course they would be able to remedy that but using a thinner bezel and halo, but in all honesty I think you'd end up with a smallish-lightweightish sort of piece with a stone/halo under 5mm. (5mm seems to be just fine in a halo--maybe others can comment on this too.)

A round should be easier to find (at least that's my experience).

 

[Agnesg]

I thought that this one here is very pretty and a good buy.-Round-Diamond-Intense-Blue-Sapphire http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/0-93ct-Excep...Gemstones_1&hash=item35a1927266#ht_2205wt_861 also I think a top grade stone will look fakey because fake synthetic stones are trying to imitate the top color!

 

[Indylady]

Hopefully Chrono will chime in as she has purchased a gorgeous blue sapphire from Tan that was truly exceptional. Chrono, could you offer any specific advice on 'reading' Tan's videos/photography for blue sapphires? I've been meaning to ask you for some time!

 

[chrono]

So you are looking for a richly coloured pure blue sapphire? No hint of violet? All sapphires will colour shift when moved from indoors to outdoors, so it’s another thing to consider when you’ve narrowed down your choices. It is normal for many right hand rings to be larger than the e-ring but I understand if that’s what you want. Personally, I’ll aim for at least 6 mm especially if you want to bezel halo it. If too small, the center stone will actually appear smaller in a halo. Another consideration is to look for a stone that is a smidge lighter in tone compared to what you have in mind because it will darken up a little once bezeled.

I’m concerned that the sapphire Agnesg linked to will be too extinct IRL. I find that his video is truer to life than his pictures and the stone looks to be quite dark. The second thing that worries me is the shallowness of the stone. The sapphire only has a depth of 55% so I expect it to either have a window or show a tilt window very easily. I believe the reason for the shallow cut is to attempt to lighten the dark tone of the sapphire.

 

[Michael_E]

I think a top grade stone will look fakey because fake synthetic stones are trying to imitate the top color!

I got such a chuckle from this comment, thanks Agnesg! Not buying a top color stone because synthetics try to imitate it is a very unusual approach to buying colored stones. I think that it could make top colors less attractive and have everyone buying stones of a lesser color....now that would really be funny. The reality is a bit different as far as color. While synthetics can offer some nice colors, they really can't come close to the top colors in natural sapphire. I think that this is because they are too controlled in their manufacture. No inclusions, no silk, no odd trace chemical elements. They're pretty, but just don't have the range of color and the subtle nuances of natural stones, so no worry about confusion with a synthetic if the right stone is chosen.

I had a couple of other comments about this thread. If the desire is for a deeply colored sapphire, (or any deeply colored stone), I would avoid getting one which is concave cut. Concave cuts reflect each light in the environment in a narrow stripe of brightness over their entire surface as the stone is turned. Even though they can appear brighter with lighter stones,(due to an increased number of these stripes of brightness), in darker stones that narrow reflection is often absorbed by the body of the stone, making it appear darker.

If you're going to use a smallish stone and bezel set it, I would suggest setting the stone very low in the bezel so that the surface of the bezel is tilted down rather steeply into the stone. When the bezel is polished, it then reflects the color of the stone, making the stone appear larger. It also has a secondary effect of making the stone very well protected, (a very good idea for stones having a lower durability like tanzanite, peridot, etc.). The downside is that you can't see the stone from low angles, (maybe not a concern since most bezels block those views anyway).

Cost...this size of stone would weigh in somewhere between .5 and 1 carat and TOP stones run between $800 and $1500 per carat in that size range. They can be much more for say a bonafide Kasmir sapphire or much less if you're will to give up something in clarity, cut quality or color. If the person making the setting is also supplying the stone you can sometimes get better pricing on the entire package so make sure to ask them about that.

 

[CaliSun]

Thanks for all your responses!
I hope to purchase a stone in the next month or so… so hopefully by then I will find one I love! Can anyone think of anywhere else I should look for a stone?

IndyLady: I’m not sure what my inspiration is, to be honest. I’ve always wanted an Aquamarine ring, and over time I craved something a bit more saturated in color. The Legacy is stunning! I’m kind of thinking of this type of setting generally with a plain band. Hopefully, if I do select a smaller stone, the jeweler will be able to craft a very fine and delicate halo so as to not create that picture frame effect you mention.

Agnesg: Thanks for showing me this stone!
As I look at more stones, I realize that I am actually looking for something of medium saturation, not a deep deep blue. I like how the medium blue sapphires have hints of deep saturation while still having lighter hues as well.

Chrono: Great points – I have given this a lot of thought and agree I need to keep an open mind about size… I think keeping the stone around a 6mm range should be okay, while maintaining the delicate overall look I’m seeking. I would also love to find a cushion with a bit of high table so the halo won’t be flat against it and darken the stone up too much.

Michael: I’ll really have to think about what I consider to be the perfect stone for my new ring. I’m really intrigued by the concave cut. I do love the look of the classic sparkly cut as well.
I’ve seen some concave stones here on PS and am afraid if I decide to purchase one, it may not look real since it’s not the standard cut, although they are truly beautiful… I’m torn.

 

[chrono]

CaliSun,
There is a difference between strong/medium saturation and dark/medium tone. My gut feel tells me that you are looking for a strongly saturated sapphire with a medium tone. Saturation means how much the blue colour pops. Tone means how light or how dark the blue colour is. I purchased the unheated blue sapphire below from the same vendor Agnesg recommended below.

Here is the original listing picture.

 

[CaliSun]

Hi Chrono - - Thanks for posting those pics. It's really hard for me to describe exactly what I'm looking for which must be as frustrating to you all as it is to me.

I saw this cushion sapphire in Jeff White's gallery which really caught my eye.
http://www.whitesgems.com/gallery/SAP012.htm

While it would be nice to see photos against both dark and light backgrounds, what I like about this gem is how the medium and deeper blues are visible. The size is a bit larger than what I'm looking for, but the color is what caught my eye.

I do think I have talked myself out of the concave cut. While I adore the artistry behind it, I may go with it for a stone other than sapphire.

 

[CaliSun]

So... I thought I studied up on sapphires before coming to you all with my questions...

Would it be correct for me to say I'm looking for a sapphire with Strong-Vivid saturation, Medium tone, and blue only hue (no modifyiers)

And, if so - - does this put me in the Ceylon category?

 

[Agnesg]

Callsun, I am in the process of learning more about blue sapphire. I came across this and thought its useful, do take a look http://awesomegems.info/bluesapphire.html

These paragraphs are extract from the link 'In Top Gem Quality Blue Sapphire the hues can range from a bluish-violet, or violetish-blue, or pure blue (bV, vB, or B). Tone should be between 5 and 7, and saturation should be 5 or 6. The examples in the diagram are bV 5/5 to 7/5, vB 5/5 to 7/5, and B 5/5 to 7/5, and B 6/6.'

'Ceylon (Sri Lanka) positively produces the finest all-round Sapphires in the world today. The very name commands a premium, and Ceylon Gems have constantly increased in price. We have always been on top of the Gem market in Ceylon and stay up with current prices and new discoveries. It is a very difficult market due to political unrest. It IS dangerous to go there, and it's more dangerous to go outside the capital city into the countryside where the stones are hand dug from the pits. We constantly buy fine Ceylon Sapphires when the price is "right." To be "right" we have the connections to know who needs quick and ready cash. Every stone is negotiated differently, thereby affecting the price per carat. We work hard to bring these highly valued Gemstones to you at very very affordable prices, so feel free to browse through our inventory. Sapphire of lesser quality comes out of Australia, Thailand, Colombia, Kampuchea (Cambodia), Kenya and Tanzania (Africa), and Montana (USA), and we do not usually offer these stones.

Although everyone has heard of the fabled Burmese Kashmir Sapphire, few have ever seen one. We constantly see appraisals that refer to Kashmir Sapphire (or Cashmere Sapphire), but it is usually referring to a Top Gem Ceylon Sapphire from Sri Lanka. The term Kashmir is widely regarded to mean the finest quality Blue Sapphire with a velvety, slightly violetish blue, highly saturated in medium to medium dark tone, with sleepy transparency. Once in a great while we are able to acquire one from Burma, but since the mine has been depleted and these highly prized stones are old stones that are simply brought back onto the market, they don't last long. Authentic Kashmir Sapphires and the Kashmir color Sapphires carry a particularly high cost per carat and are very highly valued Collectors Gemstones.'

 

[CaliSun]

Hi Agnesg! Thanks so much for the helpful info. I appreciate you sharing your findings as you learn more about sapphires.

I checked out the website, and it has some great info. The only area where I'm not certain I agree with is in respect to the importance to Sapphire cut.

Excerpt from http://awesomegems.info/bluesapphire.html

" In a lighter colored gemstone, the cut is also more important: it should reflect light back evenly across the face of the stone, making it lively and brilliant. With darker more intense colors, the cut isn't as critical because the color creates its own impact. "

I admit I'm far from expert when it comes to Sapphires, but I really think cut plays an important factor for the brilliance of all stones. This has a lot to do with why I don't wish to purchase a Sapphire at the mall or Ebay, but would rather purchase from a highly skilled lapidary who happens to have an awesome Sapphire.

At the moment, I'm uneasy with making this kind of purchase online, as it seems that most Sapphires via web don't have certificates.
I am really nervous about purchasing a misrepresented stone...

 

[Agnesg]

Hi calisun, i have a precision cut stone when comparing with my latest sapphire pear I really do not see any difference in performance. The pear is not a designer cut but there is no window and when I see it under a louPe there is no issue it is just like the precision cut honestly. One thing different is that the precision cut has a facetted girdle and the pear is only a smooth polish. The sapphire is evenly color and sparkly comparable to the precision cut stone if not, it is even livelier! My precision cut is a spinel. I am just a learner and only comparing what my eyes see. I think you need to get a well cut stone and not necessarily a precision stone.

 

[Agnesg]

I Only have experience buying online with odysseygem and they do provide certificationat a modest price..

 

[CaliSun]

Hey Agnesg! Thanks once again for your comments. I really do need to keep an open mind, so I appreciate you sharing your experience.

I reached out to WF and they offered to source some stones. I'm not sure how I feel about this.
Since I'm not in any kind of hurry at all, part of me really wants the thrill and satisfaction of finding that perfect treasure myself... Although, it would make things so much simpler!

I think I've been obsessing about this so much that I'm loosing my marbles!

 

[chrono]

Just as there are good “native” cuts and poor “native” cuts, the same applies to precision cuts – I’ve seen both good and poor precision cut stones (large tables with very easily seen tilt windows on high RI material, half and half extinction, and etc). Cut plays a role in bringing out the brilliance (the sparkle and scintillation that displays the deep and light blue flashes) and also liveliness of the gem. A very good non precision cut stone may fit your requirement so do not feel you are limited to only precision cut stones. At this point of shopping around, ditch the “ceylon” romantic name and describe to the vendor in terms of colour what you are looking for; pure blue hue, medium tone and strong to vivid saturation.