- Joined
- Aug 7, 2013
- Messages
- 1,863
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10857
Someone needs to jump on this!
We can be twinsies!
Someone needs to jump on this!
We can be twinsies!
New CBI E SI2 available!
- Thread starter KristinTech
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2013
- Messages
- 1,863
I was too excited and didn’t proof my title.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
- Messages
- 5,791
Haha, funny you mention this. I've already recommended someone purchase it.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thoughts-on-a-diamond-si1-eyeclean.251498/#post-4616772
Edited to Add:
Maybe you want to pop in on the other thread and share your CBI/HPD experience with the OP I suggested the stone to. He seemed pretty concerned about clarity of a few stones. This might give him some reassurance and peace. If HPD sent you videos/photos, maybe sharing those would help as well.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/thoughts-on-a-diamond-si1-eyeclean.251498/#post-4616772
Edited to Add:
Maybe you want to pop in on the other thread and share your CBI/HPD experience with the OP I suggested the stone to. He seemed pretty concerned about clarity of a few stones. This might give him some reassurance and peace. If HPD sent you videos/photos, maybe sharing those would help as well.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2017
- Messages
- 2,008
@KristinTech All I'm going to say is diamond studs
TODiamonds
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2019
- Messages
- 260
Is it common for people to purchase these pre-cut stones? What is the incentive to the cutter? And to the buyer? I'm guessing cutter locks in the sale early and buyer gets a small discount in exchange?
Who bears the risk if the final product doesn't meet the projected specs or lives up to performance expectations?
Just curious.
Who bears the risk if the final product doesn't meet the projected specs or lives up to performance expectations?
Just curious.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2017
- Messages
- 2,008
Yes, it is common for people to purchase CBI stones that are still being cut (I have actually done it myself). Since there is a limited number of CBIs cut each year, the incentive to the buyer is to get a stone in the specs they want. No discount to the buyer. CBI/HPD bears the risks of the final product not meeting the projected specs.
CheeSauce
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2019
- Messages
- 114
I think some people have had situations where the stone actually ended up being graded higher than anticipated (color or clarity) and HPD/CBI did not charge them more.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2017
- Messages
- 2,008
TODiamonds
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2019
- Messages
- 260
I guess as long as the full refund is in play, then there's little risk to the buyer (other than time and hassle).
Interesting that there's no adjustment if the stone ends up being graded higher as well. Based on what you guys have explained, it appears CBI absorbs any downside but gets no upside. Wonder why they do it...
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
- Messages
- 5,791
I'm not sure I agree it's a common thing for people to purchase pre-cut stones, but it does happen. Normally there is a specific reason. @lovedogs wanted a low color CBI for instance. She didn't think it was going to happen and almost pulled the trigger on another stone and got a call it was a reality.
I think finding an eye clean E SI2 is one of those rare exceptions it makes sense. High color and low clarity without risk is hard to find. Great price to boot.
However, if I'm looking at a 1ct G SI1 what makes that special? The price, or just getting my hands on a CBI? IMO, there's much less incentive as a buyer probably has other viable options. Add a twist and say it's a 5 carat rock and now that's a game changer.
The advantage for the cutter is fairly obvious -- they are selling stones and have revenue coming in the doors and can better plan their production. In a business like this, you want your inventory turning as quickly as possible, with the caveat your manufacturing facilities can sync perfectly with the demand. When demand is higher than supply prices will shoot up. The opposite is true as well -- if supply is high and demand is low, prices will lower to help keep inventory turning.
The advantage for the buyer is ensuring they get a CBI when demand is high or the desired stone is not readily available in the market place from another purveyor. Additionally the buyer has some reassurances the stone will meet or exceed the color, clarity and carat weight promised or they can walk from the deal or buy a different stone. In the event the final cutting results in more carat weight, better color and/or better clarity the buyer gets those additional perks for FREE.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonds/diamonds-now-crafted
For picky buyers that want to know the exact proportions of the stone they will receive, this is NOT a good option. So if you seek a 54-55 table and 34.5/40.8 combo you may or may not get that. You will get a great stone but it may have a 56 table and 34/40.9 combo or some other variable. Not that it's bad and CBI ensures maximum beauty but some buyers look for particular proportions and to date no vendor offers a custom stone with guaranteed proportions.
TODiamonds
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2019
- Messages
- 260
Thanks for taking the time to craft that detailed explanation Sledge. That helps a lot.
CheeSauce
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2019
- Messages
- 114
When I was looking at studs, I was looking at this diamond from HPD (maybe it was an SI2?) that was still being crafted since the price was not bad. Unfortunately, I waited too long and it came back from the lab with a higher clarity than expected. It was priced for much higher than if I bought it before it came back from the lab! What a sad lost opportunity.
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2004
- Messages
- 4,054
I bet you @Wink would know the answer to that question.
I can tell you that sometimes it goes in the opposite direction too. My CBI cut to order was projected to be 2.3+ but because they found a nick in the girdle, Paul repolished the entire diamond producing a 2.21 instead. A nick is considered a blemish but Paul would not allow any CBIs out the door with that blemish on it. I got a prorated refund on the price that allowed me to get the Vatche ring for free and most of the matching band paid for.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2004
- Messages
- 4,054
Yes, SI2s are a great value. My original stone was a 2.21 F-SI1, CBI had it recently regraded and asked them to lower the clarity to SI2, and since they removed the CBI logo on the girdle it also lost a tiny bit of weight to 2.20. The person who bought it got a great deal and paid a lot less than I did for the same diamond.
That brings up another subject. You know how we are so hung up on the numbers?
CBI has proof from AGS that there IS a margin of error in the lab equipment measurements.
John is working on a blog article about this. Same diamond, different sets of numbers ... so which one is it? I can link to it when it is completed.
That brings up another subject. You know how we are so hung up on the numbers?
CBI has proof from AGS that there IS a margin of error in the lab equipment measurements.
John is working on a blog article about this. Same diamond, different sets of numbers ... so which one is it? I can link to it when it is completed.
TODiamonds
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2019
- Messages
- 260
I am pretty sure it even says there's a margin of error on the certificates. I've compared many GIA/AGS and GIA/IGI dual-certified diamonds and often the measurements are inconsistent by 0.01mm.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2014
- Messages
- 8,228
Re: CBI or any other vendors offering custom cuts, my understanding is that they purchase rough based on expected outcomes post-cutting and grading.
If the grading result is better than expected, they will still make a profit because they bought the rough at a price that would allow them a margin at the expected grading, but they would lose the additional margin the higher grade would bring if it was to be offered on the open market.
This situation has already been mentioned above, where the price went up once a stone received a higher grading but it was not bought earlier and the expected lower grade price 'locked in'.
In the case of a stone bought at pre-cut prices but then graded higher, everyone is a winner - the cutter/vendor still gets the originally expected margin, and the buyer gets a discount on a higher graded stone, creating goodwill towards a vendor with such a policy.
If a stone is graded lower than expected... that is a misjudgement ( / 'learning opportunity', lol) in the chain at the cutter/vendor end, and they bear the cost burden for that 'bad call', as any reputable vendor would do.
A skilled cutter/vendor should have a very high 'hit rate' of expected grading reports being realised, so losses / lost opportunities for increased margin are few.
I may be completely wrong, of course but hopefully Wink or John will be along shortly to input into the thread if appropriate to do so!
If the grading result is better than expected, they will still make a profit because they bought the rough at a price that would allow them a margin at the expected grading, but they would lose the additional margin the higher grade would bring if it was to be offered on the open market.
This situation has already been mentioned above, where the price went up once a stone received a higher grading but it was not bought earlier and the expected lower grade price 'locked in'.
In the case of a stone bought at pre-cut prices but then graded higher, everyone is a winner - the cutter/vendor still gets the originally expected margin, and the buyer gets a discount on a higher graded stone, creating goodwill towards a vendor with such a policy.
If a stone is graded lower than expected... that is a misjudgement ( / 'learning opportunity', lol) in the chain at the cutter/vendor end, and they bear the cost burden for that 'bad call', as any reputable vendor would do.
A skilled cutter/vendor should have a very high 'hit rate' of expected grading reports being realised, so losses / lost opportunities for increased margin are few.
I may be completely wrong, of course
but hopefully Wink or John will be along shortly to input into the thread if appropriate to do so!
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2017
- Messages
- 2,008
This is the only downside
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 33,852
But you still have a 30 day return period.This is the only downside
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2017
- Messages
- 2,008
And the $1 more upgrade policy.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
- Messages
- 18,243
Really? I thought some are if within commonly requested specs (like 1-2ct g). I know mine wasn't bc no one else wants a 1ct N lol
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 33,852
You can pick your own minimum clarity and color...
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2013
- Messages
- 1,863
In case anyone is interested in my own thread about a 1.23 E SI2!
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hpd-ny-classic-featuring-a-1-23-e-si2-cbi.248389/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hpd-ny-classic-featuring-a-1-23-e-si2-cbi.248389/
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2013
- Messages
- 1,863
I just posted in that thread! I will find the photos/video tomorrow and post.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2013
- Messages
- 1,863
@KristinTech All I'm going to say is diamond studs
Don’t think I didn’t consider it! But then I would have to walk around with a hand mirror all day!
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
- Messages
- 5,791
You can pick your own minimum clarity and color...
Just wanted to clarify this a bit. If you are looking at trying to make a move on the E SI2 that is currently being crafted then no, you cannot choose the clarity. CBI has already examined the rough and made a determination what they believe they can cut and get graded. While they may not always guess 100% perfect, they have a qualified staff that reviews everything and is really good at estimating where they will land. After all, this is their specialty.
Assuming you lock up this diamond before it's finished, then you are guaranteed an E SI2, or you can get your money back and walk. Or they will price adjust the stone down to match the lower qualities. On the flip side, if it comes back larger, whiter and better clarity then they give that to you for free. It's a pretty sweet deal from that perspective.
However, if you don't lock down the diamond and wait until it's crafted and graded to make a play on it then you will pay market prices for whatever size, color and clarity it ends up being. So if it comes back at 1.25 carats D SI1 the price will push up because you didn't lock in ahead of time. If it comes back 1.19 carats F SI2 it will be less money and presumably the same price you'd been offered had you locked in.
Let's analyze a second scenario. To save money, you want a 1.3 G SI2. First, let's look at their available inventory (D-H color, 1.2-1.5ct, SI2-VS2 clarity).
The blue circle is the E SI2 I already recommended to you in the other thread.
The red circles indicate diamonds that are close to what you may want in this hypothetical second scenario. A 1.21 G SI1 @ $9,178 which gets you the same size, loss of color but a clarity bump for essentially the same money. They also have a 1.35 G SI1 @ $10,544, which is similar to the other but a bit more pricey because it's a little larger. While neither is your exact target, my guess based on this data is a 1.3 G SI2 would run in the upper $9k to low $10k range.
The black circles represent some stones I think is comparable to the E SI2. Size is near identical with color being the primary differential. So a slightly smaller E SI1 costs a smidge more than a slightly larger F SI1. More importantly, they are about $1,500 more expensive than the E SI2 suggested and all 3 will all be eye clean. So unless you put them under 10x scope or have eagles eyes you get no real benefit from paying the extra cash for the upgraded clarity.
All that said, it's possible that @Wink tries to point you towards one of these alternates. However, if he agrees to do a custom cut than yes, you could request a certain color and clarity within reason. Keep in mind though, CBI buys the rough in a bidding environment and it may or may not make economical sense to secure a certain rough depending on the competition, etc. Remember, these are natural mined stones so much of what is custom is limited to the available rough at that time in space.
As I mentioned in your other thread, @lovedogs really wanted a CBI and had visited with them about a custom cut but it didn't seem realistic given her desire for a lower colored stone, etc. She was about to pull the trigger on another stone, when she got the call they found something that could work. Which is pretty amazing of Wink, CBI and all the others involved to make her dreams come true.
Did You Miss the March 2024 Jewels of the Weeks?
Did You Miss the March 2024 Jewels of the Weeks? - 03/30
300x240.png)