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New and lost! Hoping for some help with a stone...

Threetrees

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
9
Hello everyone! I saw it suggested in another thread to post my budget and some experts might help, so here goes!

I'm looking to purchase an engagement ring, and have discussed with my girlfriend what she likes. I was planning to make the purchase through James Allen. For the setting she is set on a Rose gold Pave ring such as this:

https://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/14k-white-gold-thin-french-cut-pave-set-diamond-engagement-ring-item-41276 (URL says white gold but the actual item is the rose gold).

As far as the Diamond goes, I've had a few discussions with her and she's very adamant that she prefers having an extremely high quality diamond over size (regardless of how clean a lesser one would be to the eye); she also has a very small finger (measured at a jewelers as size 3.5). When she was playing around with things she was choosing stones of approximately 0.4 Carats, though I think I can go a bit bigger.

My budget for the diamond will be $2500 USD. She's looking for a stone that is: round cut, D, VS1, excellent cut. Based off what I'm seeing with my untrained eye on James Allen, I'm probably looking at something in the 0.55 range.

I would greatly appreciate any help at all!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,611
That is really not a setting that I would recommend. With a pave shank, you want a minimum of 1.8 mm for the shank and I would prefer 2mm, which is still very thin. So choose another setting.

Diamonds:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.51-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1783269 (best overall probably)

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.52-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1798463 (needs ASET)

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.50-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1096730 (I love the fat pavilion facets on this one!)
 

Threetrees

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
9
Thank you both for the replies! She was quite adamant that she's much more interested in a very high quality diamond; I had multiple conversations about lowering some of the criteria to something that would still look just as good to the naked eye and that was a no go.

As far as the thickness of the band, is this a looks thing or does the extra .2-.4 mm add a bunch of strength? The thicker bands appear to be of slightly different styles from what she had chosen.

Thanks again!
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
621
Threetrees|1465406944|4041725 said:
Thank you both for the replies! She was quite adamant that she's much more interested in a very high quality diamond; I had multiple conversations about lowering some of the criteria to something that would still look just as good to the naked eye and that was a no go.

As far as the thickness of the band, is this a looks thing or does the extra .2-.4 mm add a bunch of strength? The thicker bands appear to be of slightly different styles from what she had chosen.

Thanks again!
The width adds a fair bit of metal to the overall ring, which does equal greater strength.

As far as D color, well, if that's what you must have then so be it, the stones posted above will work. However, a "high quality diamond" will be much more impacted by the cut and inclusions versus the color.

My stones are Es and Fs, I appreciate a high color, but the price premium for D was too much for me. After all, nobody looking at it will be looking at the certificate and colors through F are completely absent any colored tint.

Whiteflash has an AGS0 D/vs1 for just under your price range: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3208299.htm# I'd consider that stone with this setting: http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/legato-micro-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-1011.htm

I think you'll find that setting is much higher quality than what JA will produce in that thin micropave setting you chose. If you were willing to drop to F color you could get a .54 ACA in that setting and probably still be at less than the JA ring price.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,611
Yes, rings that are too thin are at risk for bending out of shape, particularly when there are holes drilled in the shank for pave stones. I would not consider that a long term setting.

If you are willing to consider another vendor, the stone that kb1gra posted from Whiteflash is an excellent choice. I also love the Legato Sleekline setting but they have other pave settings that are structurally sound and nice quality, as well.

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/benchmark-small-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-4560.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/benchmark-csp4a-crescent-diamond-shared-prong-engagement-ring-4322.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/legato-micro-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-4597.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/elena-diamond-engagement-ring-4041.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/ritani-1rz2493-diamond-engagement-ring-3919.htm
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Can you talk to her about the color and clarity thing? Or is it a culture thing (that could be it). An F Vs2 is going to look just as nice.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,173
kb1gra|1465407698|4041731 said:
My stones are Es and Fs, I appreciate a high color, but the price premium for D was too much for me. After all, nobody looking at it will be looking at the certificate and colors through F are completely absent any colored tint.
Gypsy|1465438491|4041988 said:
Can you talk to her about the color and clarity thing? Or is it a culture thing (that could be it). An F Vs2 is going to look just as nice.
+1 to both of these wise posters - she won't be waving the certificate in her friends' faces saying "Look! It's a D!!" (I hope? :???: lol :lol: ) and an F has no tint unless you're comparing it next to a D on a piece of white A4 paper, so certainly will look exactly the same when on the hand and picking up all the different colours in the surrounding environment and bouncing white reflections and fire into your eyes.

It is worth noting that colour is not a measure of 'quality' - colour is a measure of rarity, with colourless D-F being rarer and therefore more highly priced. For example, a collection of Internally Flawless, AGS000 stones from D through to K will all be top quality, it is only the colour that differs.

Clarity and Cut are the measures of quality, in my mind. Better clarity = a stronger, clearer stone. Better cut = more time spent by craftsmen/craftswomen to create a higher performing stone, taking into account the rough's shape and the location of any inclusions within it.

Anything over VS1 will have any inclusions invisible without a 10x-30x loupe, with very few exceptions, so I think that aiming for a VS1 is a good plan, but many VS2 are also completely clean to the eye. I appreciate that 'mind clean' is different to 'eye clean', though ;-)


With reference to Gypsy's suggestion, Wink/HPD just happens to have an 0.53 F VS2 CBI stone in stock at the moment, for literally bang on your $2.5k budget, give or take a few bucks depending on whether you're paying by Wire transfer...:

http://highperformancediamonds.com/shop/f/HPD7938/

As the purchaser/daily observer of the F VVS2 CBI stone on the hand of my good lady, I can wholeheartedly and honestly assure you that its performance is stunning in all lighting environments, being bright from edge to edge even in dim flat lighting, with bright bursts of fire that catch my eye from across the room in single/multiple point indoor lighting :sun: The F only ever has tint when reflecting the walls of the room that it is in, and compared to the stones that your lady has seen in the usual B&M stores, it is night-and-day better.

I posted pics in the threads I started when I got the stone - search for threads started by me and you can see some decent pics of what a good F looks like. It is also my avatar pic, to the left. Tell me that's not colourless! :tongue:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
And don't forget upside down!

Color is graded when the stone is upside down. Not right side up. So to see the tint, especially in a stone that size you are talking upside down, unset and side by side with a D AND on white paper.

So.... :sick:
 

Polished

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
1,068
I'm not trying to talk your girlfriend out of her preferences, it's more that you need knowledge and experience to know what you like. I owned a D diamond and ended up finding the colour a bit harsh. I went down to a G and much prefer the stone, which to me is white but with the harshness taken out out of it. Your girlfriend might love a D but it would be good if she could see a D and an F so she is able to make an informed choice. The F's on the James Allen site are so white.
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
621
When I was looking at stones, the major issue I had with the D stones was a lack of contrast due to the total transparency of the stone. The F seemed "whiter" in normal ambient light. My F stone is my favorite - my E is nice enough but that F is just the right color balance. Could be the individual stone and bear in mind your fiance will not have several diamonds to stick side by side to compare (at least...not yet!)
 

drk14

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,061
kb1gra|1465567982|4042640 said:
When I was looking at stones, the major issue I had with the D stones was a lack of contrast due to the total transparency of the stone. The F seemed "whiter" in normal ambient light.
This seems to me to be a case of comparing apples to oranges (i.e., a less well-cut D stone compared to a more well-cut F stone). The contrast (bright and dark areas juxtaposed) that you see when looking at a face-up diamond is made of light given off from objects and light sources surrounding the diamond, and then reflected back to you by the diamond's facets and virtual facets. Color in the body of the diamond will only cast a tinted hue over these light and dark reflections (not change what is being reflected). Therefore, all else being equal, any color in the diamond will always reduce contrast (by making the bright refelctions less bright).

Thus, a D diamond with good light performance will have more contrast than a similarly cut lower color diamond. So a more typical perception of a well-cut D diamond is what was voiced by Polished, who found colorless stones to have a "harsh" appearance.
 

Threetreees

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Messages
6
So I've been unable to reply to my topic here - I assumed I just needed mod approval of a post or something but as it's been a few days I'll try this...

Anyways, thank you all so much for the replies! As per your advice, I'm definitely willing to consider a E or F diamond, and willing to consider another of the major vendors as well (whiteflash?). Would this change any recommendations? Should I see if I can find one of their ACA diamonds in my price range?

Thanks again!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Okay so.

Please do not misunderstand our advice. Your lady is the one wearing this, not us.

We do not recommend you go against her preferences WITHOUT THOUGHT.

We are recommending you and she communicate and that you both go out and look at GIA graded E and F stones and make an educated decision TOGETHER about this.

Okay?
 

Polished

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
1,068
Sounds good Threetrees. As well as Whiteflash you might want to check out Brian Gavin too within your specs.
 
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