Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Need your expertise evaluating this diamond!

A

areorui

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 16, 2018
Messages
22
Hi everyone! I am a relative new on my buying journey but I am under time pressure to pick out a diamond. I've done about a week of research so far and I thought this could be a good choice:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4811060

It's a good size, good cut (HCA score of 1.5, crown angle slightly high), eye clean. I know it's a J but I am planning on putting it on yellow gold so hopefully it's not a problem. I've requested an IdealScope image from JA, and I'll post it when I get it.
My concerns about this diamond:
1) The face up view has some yellow color on the sides. Is this a problem?
2) It's rated by IGI, which I have read on this forum that it's not a big problem. However, when I compare its color to some of the GIA rated J color diamonds, this one appears to be slightly more yellow. Should I be concerned about that?

Is there anything that I am missing when evaluating this diamond? Thanks in advance for your help!
 
Welcome to Pricescope. It is a nice size and has nice angles. But, I think you misread responses on IGI. We strongly do not recommend IGI due to the unreliability of their ratings. While this is a J by IGI, it may be a K or L if the same stone was graded by GIA. The cost to get a stone graded is essentially the same from IGI and GIA or AGS. This vendor choose to send to IGI.

For color, I tend to recommend you stick with I or above unless you know the wearer is not color sensitive. The ability to see color is biologically different for each person. If you think of your girl, is she someone that has to have just the right shade of nail polish or shoes? Or does she wear basic black and brown with everything? Does she uses words like oyster, old lace, ivory, oyster, snow...or does she just say white or beige? Is she in an artistic field or have artistic hobbies?

While I and many PS member love large diamonds. I would suggest you be very sure your girl wear. If she wears lots of large rings, then no problem. But, 2 carats is about where it really feels big and, for some, can be awkward. If she's really into fashion and celebrities a large stone might suit. But, her jobs and hobbies will dictate the setting. What does she do? What are her hobbies?

You did not post a budget, but here are few options that would be better choices under $17k. If you have a time crunch, you might look at one of the super-ideal venders (whiteflash, highperformancediamonds, briangavin, victorcanera).
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3747498
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2116787
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-si1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-3634657
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4956633
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3784253.htm
 
Hi Rockysalamander, thanks for your response. I appreciate it. While my girl paints occasionally, she's not in an artistic field. She's specifically told me that she's rather optimize for size than color, so I am comfortable going with a J. That being said, I understand this diamond may be rated lower than a J if rated by GIA. I am going to have an opportunity to see it in person at JA's showroom in NY, and I can compare it with J-rated diamonds from GIA and AGS, so hopefully I'll be able to see if they are the same color grade.

With regards to the original diamond I posted, do you think seeing some of the yellow and blue colors on the face up view is ok? (see image below). From looking at the list you posted, some of the diamonds have similar mixed yellow/blue face up views, while others have more clear white face up views. Do that affect how the diamond looks in real life or how it sparkles?

Original diamond: yellow/brown/blue on the sides
example.png

One of the diamonds you recommended: more white face view
example2.png

Thanks again for your advice!
 
What you are seeing in those videos from above is the diamond reflecting environmental colors (blue shirt, brown door, etc.). There is no consistency in lighting and environment with the JA videos, so you really cannot judge fine shades of color within a color grade. A J will generally look white from above. There are PS member with L and M colors that face-up white. Body color is mostly visible from a 45 degree tilt and the side -- which are the angle the wearer tends to see.

From the side, you can see enough difference between the J (left) and I (right) to see the body color will differ.
upload_2018-5-19_15-7-55.png
But, if your girl wants size over color, than going with a J color is fine. Just really look hard at the stone compared to GIA J colors away from the showroom lights. You need to move away from the cases toward a window or anywhere not under the fancy lights to really see the stone and its body color.

If you are looking at a setting with small or side diamonds (halo or pave in the band), those stone will usually be G/H color and small diamonds are just whiter facing. So, make sure you are okay with the contrast. Some people are very acute to color contrast -- more so that absolute color.

Still not clear on budget, but these are both really nice J color options.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3784253.htm
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/2.040-j-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104099046029

Nice I slightly smaller
https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/11401273/Round-Diamond-I-Color-VS2-Clarity {ask for an ASET image}
 
Thanks again for the help, rockslamander. My budget is ~19000 for the stone and ~20000 including the setting. I was planning on using a solitaire plain yellow or rose gold setting, with 6 prongs. I am hoping the contrast with the setting will make the stone appear whiter from the side.

After comparing this IGI-rated J with other GIA-rated Js, I think the result is inconclusive. I think it is more yellow than some GIA-rated Js, and the same as others. For example, below is this diamond alongside 3 GIA-rated Js. To be, it is hard to tell which one is the IGI-rated one. What do you think?

comparing 4 Js.png
 
Nice comparison. I think the issue is that if you look at the backgrounds of those, can you see how the color and tone of the grey differ? It really hard without seeing the stones in person. The other confounding problem is that even if you limit yourself to GIA graded stones, the color will vary within a letter (H and below). As you move from H and downward in color, the width of the color band also increases. So, there will be "high" J and "low" Js. So, some J's are closer to I and some closer to K.

BTW, here's a picture show 3 super-ideal D, H and L face-up. The L really just begins to show face-up color.
One-Carat-AGS-Certified-Ideal-Cut-Diamonds-Face-Up-WF.jpg

One-carat-AGS-certified-Ideal-Cut-Diamonds-body-color-WF.jpg


But, you can see more from the side.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/ags-laboratory-color-grading-diamonds
 
Thanks, that's helpful. I am definitely go to scrutinize it in person when I see it next week. Other than the color, do you think there's any other potential things I should look out for when I see it in person? Thanks again in advance.
 
The original diamond falls within the fiery ideal cut specs - you'll see high contrast arrow patterns and the diamond should perform decently given the proportions and you should see a lot of fire, but probably at the expense of brightness. It's very slightly deeper than I personally prefer and has a minor optical symmetry issue at 2oc, so check if the diamond looks a bit dark under the table when you see it in person. If it performs well IRL, verify again away from the jeweler's lighting. Check the diamond against desired ring metal setting (platinum, white gold, etc) and see if the color is noticeable at a tilt around 45 degrees.
 
BlueMA, thank you for sharing your expertise. I really appreciate it. Can you please elaborate a little on the minor optical symmetry issue at 2oc?
Also, when you say "under the table", do you mean away from the lighting?

Thanks in advance.
 
areorui said:
BlueMA, thank you for sharing your expertise. I really appreciate it. Can you please elaborate a little on the minor optical symmetry issue at 2oc?
Also, when you say "under the table", do you mean away from the lighting?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

look at the star facets around 2-2:30, the two small triangles between the arrow heads are distorted.
More details here http://www.heartsandarrows.com/hearts-arrows-diamond-ideal-cut-dna.aspx

Even more details here https://www.goodoldgold.com/reflectors-teach-us

Hope that helps!
 
areorui said:
Also, when you say "under the table", do you mean away from the lighting?
Click to expand...

Table = the top octogan facet on a round brilliant
https://www.jewelry-secrets.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Brilliant-Cut-Diamond2.jpg

I see a very slight darkness under the table but I don't think there would be a noticeable leakage based on the proportions. Just something to look for IRL for the diamond's depth and it could just be due to the photography as well. For any diamond, see if you could request for Idealscope and ASET images. That'll help you narrow down on your selection.
 
blueMA, once again, thank you so much for your insightful analysis and advice. The articles you posted are great, there's so much I don't know about the optics. I have requested the Idealscope image and JA says it's going to take a few days. I'll post it here when I get it. I will also look for any sign of darkness under the table (now that you've taught me what it means lol).

Thanks!
 
blueMA said:
look at the star facets around 2-2:30, the two small triangles between the arrow heads are distorted.
More details here http://www.heartsandarrows.com/hearts-arrows-diamond-ideal-cut-dna.aspx

Even more details here https://www.goodoldgold.com/reflectors-teach-us

Hope that helps!
Click to expand...

Hey, with regards to the symmetry issues, I think this is a video phenomenon. Here is the same diamond, one frame shifted, where they look perfectly fine.

Additionally the culet is not central, suggesting a tilted image, making such symmetry assumptions difficult.
20180520_214107.png
 
gm89uk said:
Hey, with regards to the symmetry issues, I think this is a video phenomenon. Here is the same diamond, one frame shifted, where they look perfectly fine.

Additionally the culet is not central, suggesting a tilted image, making such symmetry assumptions difficult.
20180520_214107.png
Click to expand...

That's true. Though I carefully looked at the spinning 360 video before mentioning that, and also the reason to request for IS and ASET images. It could just be the slight tilt though, as you mention.
 
Even in the primary position on the video, the symmetry is good, but it is covered by obstruction of the star facet
 
gm89uk said:
Even in the primary position on the video, the symmetry is good, but it is covered by obstruction of the star facet
Click to expand...
I agree, the overall symmetry is pretty good, but we'll only know for sure on the star facet once the OP gets his IS/ASET.
 
Thanks everyone for your help. I am going to see the stone in person tomorrow and get the idealscope image. I will report back.

rockysalamander said:
We strongly do not recommend IGI due to the unreliability of their ratings. While this is a J by IGI, it may be a K or L if the same stone was graded by GIA. The cost to get a stone graded is essentially the same from IGI and GIA or AGS. This vendor choose to send to IGI.
Click to expand...

Hi rockysalamander, does your opinion on the above change if the stone was in Europe and it was graded by IGI Antwerp? I would assume since IGI is European, more European stones are graded by them compared to GIA/AGS, who are both American. Do you think there is always something sinister going on when a diamond is sent to IGI?
 
Hi blueMA, gm89uk, and rockysalamder, I've looked at the stone in person and received the IdealScope image from JA. The color noticeably more yellow than the GIA J that I compared with, and about the same as the AGS J that I also compared with. See here for it next to the GIA J. The GIA J is on the left.
compare color.png

Here's the IdealScope image. Given the angles of the diamond, I expected a better IdealScope. Can anyone please educate me on why there would be so much light leakage under the table even though it's got good arrows and good cut angles? Should this IdealScope performance deter me from buying this diamond?
4811060.jpg
Thanks in advance!
 
The bit of leakages I see is consistent with slightly deep diamonds as I've mentioned before, but the strength of the back-lighting can exaggerate the effect on the IS images.
I would've liked to seen its hearts images, but from what I could see, the symmetry is pretty good and it should be a decent performer in real life except for the slight darkness that may be perceived when viewed straight from the top. In a lot of cases, stereo (two eyes) view should cancel that out.

If it looked good to you in person, it should not deter you from buying the diamond if the price was right.
 
@blueMA , thanks so much for that insight. Would you say the IS above is better than this one?
(to me, this one has symmetry issues?)
4812413.jpg
 
You're seeing just a bit of a tilt for that image.
 
@blueMA Would you reject that diamond based on the tilt? How big of a problem do you think it indicates?
 
The tilt being discussed is that the person holding the stone did not hold the table of the diamond parallel with the camera lens. So, the stone is tilted. No worries. It just means that its harder to judge symmetry because the stone is held at a tilted angle.

The way I see these two IS images is that they are similarly backlite in terms of intensity (look at the brightness in the little triangles). They both have 1 area where the pavillion angle vary quite a bit from the other. The one on the left looks a bit worse, but the stone is also tilted in that direction. So, i think they are about the same. They will have similar amounts of contrast as the arrows are quite similar.

To me, between these would come down to which had less body color all else being equal.

upload_2018-5-25_7-38-35.png
 
Not a big problem at all. You should trust your own eyes for a diamond's real life performance over a static 2D IS image.
 
To clarify, you could have a diamond with a perfect IS image, and another with a bit of facet angle inconsistencies with a slightly flawed IS image combined with other angle variances. It is not unusual that a diamond with a flaw could actually perform better and look more lively in person. You should buy diamonds with your eyes, not for its images.
 
@blueMA, @rockysalamander Thank you both for your help! I went ahead and pulled the trigged on the 2.13ct stone (second IS image on the right). I was deciding between the original 2.50ct IGI-rated J VS2 (top of thread) for $17,180 and this 2.13ct GIA-rated J VVS2 for $15,930, both having HCA scores of 1.5. When I compared them both in person, I thought the 2.13 had more brilliance and fire, and was much more lively when I was turning it and moving it around, and its color was clearly better. In the end, even though I would've preferred the bigger diamond, its worse color and fire made me go with the smaller one.

Thanks again!
 
areorui said:
I thought the 2.13 had more brilliance and fire, and was much more lively when I was turning it and moving it around
Click to expand...

There you go! Congratulations!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top