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Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help!!

T

tuk123

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
13
Hi folks,

I am going on a trip with my gf this Xmas and I am hoping to propose to her then. I read up on all the 4c's, various characteristics and what not. I been looking around locally as well as online and I narrowed down the specs to as follow:

Carat: 1 or more
Color: E, F, or G
Clarity: VS2
Cut: Ideal
Price: $9000 including taxes

I live in Toronto, Canada so I will need to account for the 13% in taxes. Having said that, I am flexible on price. Anyhow here are a few that I am interested in, just want to throw it out there and get some feedbacks.

1st one:
1.014 cts
6.40 - 6.44 x 4.00mm
Depth: 62.3%
Table: 54.5%
http://www.bluenile.ca/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-f-colour-vs2-clarity_LD01254772
http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104045899061-PLDQR.PDF

2nd one:
1.01 cts
6.45 - 6.48 x 4.00mm
F
Depth: 61.9%
Table: 55%
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1343653.asp
http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/act_printPDF.cfm?weight=1.01&lct=cb

3rd one:
1.04 cts
6.50 - 6.54 x 4.03mm
F
Depth: 61.8%
Table: 56%
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1335612.asp
http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/act_printPDF.cfm?weight=1.04&lct=cb

I would love to hear what you folks think. Also if there are any other diamonds that fall within my category, please let me know.

Regards,
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

well diamond #1 scores:

Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.3 - Excellent
within BIC range



diamond #2-

Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.6 - Excellent
within TIC range


diamond #3-

Factor Grade
Light Return Very Good
Fire Very Good
Scintillation Very Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 2.3 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right



So right off the bat, if you are looking to buy a diamond with an excellent cut- one that will sparkle more- diamond #3 should be eliminated.

Diamond #1 & #2 are both excellently cut.
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

as far as color and clarity diamond 1 and 2 are equal. The issue is BN doesn't show a picture of the actual diamond. Luckily you want RB, and the ones you are looking at are graded by AGS and GIA and you are able to use the HCA tool to determine cut quality. Also you are going with a "safe"color and clairty so inclusions and tint should nto be an issue with either of those stones.
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

I didn't run the numbers myself, but note that HCA comes up with "BIC range" for diamond 1 and "TIC range" for diamond 2. I'm not very well versed in this are, but BIC stands for Brilliant Ideal Cut, TIC = Tolkowsky Ideal Cut, and FIC = Fiery Ideal Cut. So Diamond #1 may have a lot of brilliance (reflection of white light) but the trade-off is that it may have less fire (reflection of colored light) than Diamond #2. Some people prefer that; others would rule it out based on this. TIC is more of a balanced mix between brilliance and fire.

Also keep in mind that Blue Nile doesn't have an upgrade policy, whereas James Allen does. So I'd go with 2.
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

Go to resources at the top of this page and click diamond search. There you can list the parameters you are interested in and if you choose in house, you will find listings for several diamonds.
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Amys Bling said:
...
So right off the bat, if you are looking to buy a diamond with an excellent cut- one that will sparkle more- diamond #3 should be eliminated.

Diamond #1 & #2 are both excellently cut.
Click to expand...

Hah, I was under the impression that they all have excellent cut since they are all graded as ideal/excellent cut. I guess I still have a lot to learn. Ok, I am going to take #3 off my list if that's the case.

Amys Bling said:
as far as color and clarity diamond 1 and 2 are equal. The issue is BN doesn't show a picture of the actual diamond. Luckily you want RB, and the ones you are looking at are graded by AGS and GIA and you are able to use the HCA tool to determine cut quality. Also you are going with a "safe"color and clairty so inclusions and tint should nto be an issue with either of those stones.
Click to expand...

Can you explain what you meant by "safe" color and how inclusion won't be an issue? I went to look at a VS2 today and I swear I thought I saw inclusions with my naked eyes. The jeweler told me it was impossible to see it without the loop. Anyway now I am a little unsure of buying a VS2. I noticed that diamond #1 has a long feather running along the edge and #2 has cloud on its edge, what does it mean and will I be able to see it with my eyes?
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

jstarfireb|1291080310|2782254 said:
I didn't run the numbers myself, but note that HCA comes up with "BIC range" for diamond 1 and "TIC range" for diamond 2. I'm not very well versed in this are, but BIC stands for Brilliant Ideal Cut, TIC = Tolkowsky Ideal Cut, and FIC = Fiery Ideal Cut. So Diamond #1 may have a lot of brilliance (reflection of white light) but the trade-off is that it may have less fire (reflection of colored light) than Diamond #2. Some people prefer that; others would rule it out based on this. TIC is more of a balanced mix between brilliance and fire.

Also keep in mind that Blue Nile doesn't have an upgrade policy, whereas James Allen does. So I'd go with 2.
Click to expand...

So I plugged in the number into the HCA. For diamond #1, I got 1.9 for TIC range. For diamond #2, I got 1.6 for TIC range. What does the number means? Is it lower the better?

Are there calculators for BIC and FIC?
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

Amys Bling|1291084779|2782315 said:
https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-...&type_search=1&InHouseSearch=&InHouseSearch=0

https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-...&type_search=1&InHouseSearch=&InHouseSearch=0
Click to expand...

Unfortunately this is beyond my price range. After taxes and currency exchange, it will come out close to $10k. For reference, diamond #1 is $7700 CDN and #2 is about $7500CDN. With taxes, it's about $8700 and $8500 respectively.
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

tuk123|1291084881|2782317 said:
Thanks for the prompt reply.

Amys Bling said:
...
So right off the bat, if you are looking to buy a diamond with an excellent cut- one that will sparkle more- diamond #3 should be eliminated.

Diamond #1 & #2 are both excellently cut.
Click to expand...

Hah, I was under the impression that they all have excellent cut since they are all graded as ideal/excellent cut. I guess I still have a lot to learn. Ok, I am going to take #3 off my list if that's the case.

Amys Bling said:
as far as color and clarity diamond 1 and 2 are equal. The issue is BN doesn't show a picture of the actual diamond. Luckily you want RB, and the ones you are looking at are graded by AGS and GIA and you are able to use the HCA tool to determine cut quality. Also you are going with a "safe"color and clairty so inclusions and tint should nto be an issue with either of those stones.
Click to expand...

Can you explain what you meant by "safe" color and how inclusion won't be an issue? I went to look at a VS2 today and I swear I thought I saw inclusions with my naked eyes. The jeweler told me it was impossible to see it without the loop. Anyway now I am a little unsure of buying a VS2. I noticed that diamond #1 has a long feather running along the edge and #2 has cloud on its edge, what does it mean and will I be able to see it with my eyes?
Click to expand...

Well typically a VS2 stone is eyeclean= HOWEVER some people are clarity sensitive... feather along the edge- you need to ask if it's a chip/fracture risk if it is too close to the edge.

safe color- F is a colorless grade- these stones really will appear white to you and others- unless you are super sensitive to color. Some say they can see a difference from a D to F, others say that they can't see a difference between an H to a E/F. So with an F you are getting a white stone.


As for HCA scores- anything under 2.0 is ideal- it doens't mean that lower is better, really it was created as a "screening" tool to weed out stones over- **IF you are looking for ideal/excellent cut** very good stones are a great buy if you dont want/need ideal-excellent cut.
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

ideal cut- G VS2 1.013- there is a picture of the actual stone and you can use a loop to see the stone- looks eyeclean to me,

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2372501.htm


1ct F VS2 Excellent cut- again this is a pic of the actual stone-
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2204182.htm

You can call whiteflash and ask if eyeclean to your standard - and inquire about the clarity plot.
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

GIA excellent cut allows for a wide range of proportions (see this article) https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn%E2%80%99t_show

Also many vendors say that a stone is 'ideal' or 'excellent' cut just based on table and depth %, so you can't really go by vendor cut labels unless you trust the vendor.

lower is not better, a score under 2 will eliminate poor performers, the 2.3 might be OK, IS image could tell you more.

most VS2 will not have visible inclusions from the top down, you may be able to see some from the side. many SI1s are eye-clean, you would need to check with vendor though

here are some other options
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2372501.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2192345.htm
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

slg47|1291086763|2782343 said:
GIA excellent cut allows for a wide range of proportions (see this article) https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn%E2%80%99t_show

Also many vendors say that a stone is 'ideal' or 'excellent' cut just based on table and depth %, so you can't really go by vendor cut labels unless you trust the vendor.

lower is not better, a score under 2 will eliminate poor performers, the 2.3 might be OK, IS image could tell you more.

most VS2 will not have visible inclusions from the top down, you may be able to see some from the side. many SI1s are eye-clean, you would need to check with vendor though

here are some other options
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2372501.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2192345.htm
Click to expand...


great minds think alike- the first whiteflash is the one I linked as well :bigsmile:
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

Thanks for all the links and suggestions. I diligently went through all the diamonds listed, but I found either they contain too many inclusions or strong fluorescence. So I am leaning strongly on diamond #2 I indicated on my original post.

In regards to laser inscription, the diamond isn't inscribed. Since this is the first time I am buying something as valuable as this online, should I be concern? I am only going to buy the loose diamond and have it set by a local jeweler, I don't want to risk either being shipped the wrong diamond or it swapped during the setting process. What are some of the precautions I should be taking?
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

JA is reputable, you can get the stone appraised to make sure it matches the cert?

Both WF stones I linked are negligible fluoro and VS2, is that 'too many inclusions'? Not that there is anything wrong with your original choice, just curious :read: you should ask for IS image before buying to check it out but looks good
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

I'm from Ontario as well.
I worked with briangavindiamonds.com

I can attest to the fact that his "Signature" Hearts and Arrows diamonds perform with the best of them.
In the 7 months my fiance has been wearing her ring, we have yet to see a diamond perform the way hers does.

They worked well with the fact I'm a Canuck. They will either ship a diamond to Canada or a local American Appraiser for you to review. I know you aren't far from Buffalo, NY. Since BGD is in Texas they will be shipping out of state (no state tax) if you ship to Buffalo NY.

Check out their inventory:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...=100&table_from=53&table_to=100&submit=Search



Be sure to ask them the difference between shipping to Canada and Buffalo. I'm fortunate, my fiance is American.
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

slg47|1291092834|2782455 said:
JA is reputable, you can get the stone appraised to make sure it matches the cert?

Both WF stones I linked are negligible fluoro and VS2, is that 'too many inclusions'? Not that there is anything wrong with your original choice, just curious :read: you should ask for IS image before buying to check it out but looks good
Click to expand...

I stand corrected, my apologies as I probably got mixed up your recommendations with others. I do like the two that you linked. The non H&A(2nd link) cost about the same except it's G color whereby the one I selected is F. Does it makes much difference going 1 grade down? The H&A(1st link) cost ~$500 more and it's G as well, is it worthwhile to consider?

I did ask for the IS image from JA, it should take about 3-4 days. I will post it up then, hopefully you will be able to lend me your expertise in dissecting it.
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

IceExplorer|1291116074|2782576 said:
I'm from Ontario as well.
I worked with briangavindiamonds.com

I can attest to the fact that his "Signature" Hearts and Arrows diamonds perform with the best of them.
In the 7 months my fiance has been wearing her ring, we have yet to see a diamond perform the way hers does.

They worked well with the fact I'm a Canuck. They will either ship a diamond to Canada or a local American Appraiser for you to review. I know you aren't far from Buffalo, NY. Since BGD is in Texas they will be shipping out of state (no state tax) if you ship to Buffalo NY.

Check out their inventory:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...=100&table_from=53&table_to=100&submit=Search



Be sure to ask them the difference between shipping to Canada and Buffalo. I'm fortunate, my fiance is American.
Click to expand...

I am happy that your fiancée is really satisfied with hers. I did check that site, unfortunately there are no "signature" diamonds that will fit into my budget. I like this one but it's $700 - $800 over. http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104044686024

Ah well. Thanks anyhow.
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

So I managed to get the IS and Sarin report for diamond #2 in my OP. What do you folks think? Also I am confused about the Sarin report. The values are different from the GIA report, is it because it's more precise? Using the HCA tool, when I plug in the value from the GIA report, I get 1.9 TIC and everything is EX except for Spread which is VG. However when I plug in the value from the Sarin report, I still get 1.9 TIC but only Light Return is EX, the rest are VG. Which is correct? Also I see there are min and max value, do I need to calculated based on those? or is using the avg good enough?

Hopefully someone can shed some light into this, I am very confused. :?


1343653id.jpg

1343653sarinData.jpg
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

the IS looks great :appl:
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

It is not unusual to have slightly different numbers on the Sarin. Granted, I'm surprised to see a .4% difference in depth. The only other thing I might find suspect and wonder if the image matched the stone is the lgf%. The GIA report says 75%, which would be fatter arrows. However, I think (please someone tell me if I'm wrong) that GIA rounds this number so 75% could be 77%. In that case, it would make sense.

Beautiful stone, by the way!
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

The image looks good.
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

I am continuously impressed by all the great and speedy responses, you folks are simply awesome. :appl:

Thanks for the feedback on the IS, now my only concern is the Sarin report. I don't like the fact that it's VG instead of EX. Now I regret asking for the report, I wish I could erase it from my head. As they say, ignorance is bliss lol. The fact that some are VG instead of EX, will it have a big impact? or am I making a big deal out of nothing?
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

you mean the HCA factor results? HCA is a blunt tool. IS will tell more, I would trust the IS image
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

slg47|1291321619|2785369 said:
you mean the HCA factor results? HCA is a blunt tool. IS will tell more, I would trust the IS image
Click to expand...


agree..
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

Amys Bling said:
slg47|1291321619|2785369 said:
you mean the HCA factor results? HCA is a blunt tool. IS will tell more, I would trust the IS image
Click to expand...


agree..
Click to expand...

Oh looks like I learned something new again, that's great to hear.

Another twist to this, I just found out that my gf much prefer channel set than solitaire; Unfortunately I don't like any of JA's channel set band. Fortunately I did find one on Whiteflash that I really like. Yes, I know I can get it set locally but I much prefer dealing with one vendor. So based on everyone's input from the last few days, I narrowed down to two stones from WF.

WF #1:
1.031 cts
6.46 - 6.47 x 4.01mm
H&A
1.5 TCA
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2517121.htm

WF #2:
1.006 cts
6.43 - 6.53 x 3.92mm
1.0 TCA
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2192345.htm

Once again, it will be great to hear your expert opinions.
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

Neither, I didn't like the light reflections on neither, expert selection has a bigger than ideal table, and the H&A one has clefted hearts. I suggest you take a look at these two alternatives below.. when comparing diamonds, I suggest opening the actual pictures of each diamond in your browser's tabs and comparing the actual pictures, switching from one to the other, you might discover a whole new dimension. If you look at the pictures, you can almost see that the better light reflection makes these 2 stones look whiter in actual photos (compared to your initial selections). Also, the angles are tighter and more ideal.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2231175.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2231163.htm
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

I agree that I like WFs channel set bands better.
 
Re: Need to get an engagement ring by Christmas. Please help

demirci|1291352710|2785970 said:
Neither, I didn't like the light reflections on neither, expert selection has a bigger than ideal table, and the H&A one has clefted hearts. I suggest you take a look at these two alternatives below.. when comparing diamonds, I suggest opening the actual pictures of each diamond in your browser's tabs and comparing the actual pictures, switching from one to the other, you might discover a whole new dimension. If you look at the pictures, you can almost see that the better light reflection makes these 2 stones look whiter in actual photos (compared to your initial selections). Also, the angles are tighter and more ideal.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2231175.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2231163.htm
Click to expand...

I like your idea of comparing pictures by tabbing. I did that and yours indeed seems whiter than mine. What do you mean by clefted hearts? And what should the ideal table be?

I been reading up some threads about analyzing IS, but stuff like light leakage, girdle leakage, blackish vs reddish arrows.. all that stuff just goes over my head. What should I look for and how does one interpret them?

Now comparing the two you recommended, I find the 1st one brighter. Can you give me your take on it?
 
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